From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #158 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, June 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 158 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's Braging rights [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's Braging rights [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Xena dvd's! [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 03:27:08 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's Braging rights In a message dated 6/6/2003 3:09:48 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > I don't recall commenting on ... oops, so I did! Way back in the dim > and > distant past. Okay, so if you'd just like to hang on while I shoot my > other > foot... there, now I no longer walk around in circles. > Jeez, cr. You're strangling reality on one list and shooting your foot on this list. Hope you're not on any other lists, as your violent tendencies might escalate. Besides, if you set the example of foot shooting because you forgot you commented on something, there's a whole lot of the rest of us who might feel pressured to do the same. Furthermore, you don't want KT to be walking around in circles by herself, do you? - -- Ife (already heading for your bomb shelter) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:15:24 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews > ><< > Argghhhhh!!! *%$#@^^^. The woman is so insufferably circuitous in her > > > logic that I could scream! Oh, I just did. Sorry everyone (except KT). > > > > > > No, no, not circuituous. I just keep hoping that if you hear the truth > > often enough, it just MIGHT sink in. > > > > Ife, in my world if you look a person in the face and say, "I'm a better > > person than you are" that is bragging. >> > > > >Nope. I've heard no evidence for this. I gave you alternative > >interpretations. I gave you expression and tone of voice, context and > >sequence. What did > >I get? Nothing. Because you just don't get it. I stated all my arguments in the first post or two. Nothing you've said changed my mind. Because nothing changes the fact that if you look a person in the eye and say, "I'm a better person than you are", it's bragging. No matter the truth of it, no matter the rationalizaton for it. But then I've said all this before. Because I did say all this before, I decided for the sake of the other poor souls on the list to go for succinct with a simple statement of fact. And received a number of nice comments admiring how I'd cut right to the heart of the matter by pointing out that having Xena brag about being a better person than someone else is totally against her character as we've seen it. > >KT: She's bragging. > >Ife: How did you get that? > >KT: Because she essentially said, "I'm better than you." > >Ife: What makes you say that? > >KT: Because she's bragging. Nope. What KT said was, "Looking someone in the face and saying you are a better person than they are is bragging". > > > >Circuitous. Just because you try to make it look like a "round killing > >thing" doesn't mean it's not a "sham rock" that falls to the ground with a > >plink. > >Heh. > > > >-- Ife > > > Hahahahahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! > > Welcome to the "dark side" of an argument with KT. I can tell you it is no > less frustrating in person - even when I get her completely drunk. And lass, am I EVER grateful to you for that. Even though when "completely drunk" I tend to channel the Cookie Monster and speak in slurred, gravelly, New York accented growls, accompanied by stabbing my forefinger into my conversationee's shoulder to press my point home. And Liz bless her, understands every grunt and hack. > > However - on this one, I completely agree with her. Even if I don't quite > believe that "Thou shalt not say nice things about thyself" was mistakenly > left off in favour of "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours ass" - I think > Moses was trying to say "Thou shalt not make an ass of thyself". BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! Kazing, you little ass-coveting wanker you. > > It struck me as waaaay out of character at the time and still does. Absolutely. Perhaps > the "round argument" could go: > > It's not the kind of thing Xena would say Been there, said that. > She never said anything like it again Been there, said that. > Gabby might have said it Been there, said that. > Gabby said things like that all the time Been there, said that. > Lucy and Renee got their scripts damp that day GASP! Now that I DIDN'T say, but I was going to say it the next time but then I got bored with the thread. I'm sure we're all grateful that you've gotten my attention again. What I was going to say was: The actor's are standing around on the beach, dripping wet as the director works out angles and lighting for the beach shots. The script person comes running up to the actors, brandishing yellow pages and saying, "Manheim just sent this over-the script runs a bit short again just like "Remember Nothing" did. Here's some padding!" Lucy and Renee lean over to read the additional dialogue. Water drips from their hair and splotches unto the page, causing the ink to run a bit. Suddenly, the spirit of Gabrielle hurtles into Renee, causing her to sneeze mightily and very snottily all over the page. Lucy and the Macon guy immediately release their grip upon the page and leave Renee holding the rapidly dissolving document. But not before the horrendous sneeze scares Lucy so badly that she whips her head back and her wet hair spatters even more moisture upon the now practically dripping page. They all warily lean over the page and read: Macon: Wha(SMEAR)id you expec(SMEAR) (SMEAR): From you, noth(SMEAR). From (SMEAR)e(SMEAR) othin(SMEAR) less. They all stare at the page, scowling. Renee haltingly reads, "Uh, one of us says, "From you...nothing. From uh...hmmm..." Lucy says, "From her nothing less?" Renee, realizing that Gabrielle says things like this all the time, begins to analyze the specific dialogue so that she will be able to read it properly, to punch up the right words in the lines. The Macon guy (who doesn't know Xena's character very well) suggests, "Might it say, 'From ME nothing less?" Lucy holds back a withering glance and thinks, "Cor' it's bloody cold out here." The assistant director suddenly booms out, "SHOOOOOTIIIIN'". They all snap into character. The Macon man says, "What did you expect?" Renee is not quite done with her analysis yet and so is a tad slow on the reply. Just as she's ready to enunciate her line, Lucy who's been standing there as her stoic Xena self, suddenly comes to a realization that, "Aw hell, she thinks it's MY line-she's not going to say anything." And so, purely to save the scene Lucy blurts out, "From you nothing else. From me, nothing less". Renee, who was just about to speak the line, startles and stares up at Lucy in surprise. (Leading to some fans claiming that Gabrielle is surprised but delighted to realize that Xena is now "healthy enough" to brag on her character.) And that's the way *I* think it happened. I imagine that was what you were thinking too, yes? > Director wasn't paying attention Overwhelmed by the beauty of Bethell's Beach. (That would be Lucy.) > Writer was an idiot > I like Manheim. But this was not her most steller hour. > C'mon - pick me apart! > > > Sojourner I imagine Ife, who TALKS about interpretation being in the eye of the beholder and all views being valid, shall try to do just that...grin KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 02:12:30 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging > > > Well yes we are obsessive but I like Tsunami a lot. > > > Xena and Gabrielle are at their most Xenish and Gabbish. > > And the most wet too. :) LOL! Trust YOU to notice that...grin > > > Gotta agree with you, Cande. There's something so nice and > > simple -- no gods messin' around or epic consequences. Character > > studies that don't require reference books to figure out. > > I liked this ep too. But what gets me is that I keep wanting to > put it in season 2 instead of season 3. I guess for me season 3 > was the start of the storylines and arcs. Tsunami just felt more > like a season 2 kinda story. > Yeah, this is exactly what I feel too. Had it been in season one or two, I don't think I would have found it so boring. But after the glorious and magnificent eps of season three, it was just totally flat and totally insipid to me. Actually, even for a season one/two ep, it's not very good to me. Nothing in it holds my attention and the sanctimonious, heavy-handed tone of the delivery of the "lessons" made me roll my eyes and smirk. I think the most interesting thing about it is how Lucy said that she and Bruce and Renee kept trying to waggle the cabbages in the water to make them crash into each other and that they had that bet as to who would gag and freak out first from the horrid decaying cabbage smell. That's a pretty good way to see this ep--as generating a horrid decaying cabbage smell. > And for you Tsunami ep fans... :) > here's a small graphic closeup of a t-shirt I recently acquired: > > http://cousinliz.com/tsunami_t.jpg > > It's a kinda gag t-shirt that was popular amongst cast & shooting > crew. Xena is saying, "Holy tshit, Gabe!... It's another bloody > tstudio tsunami!!!" The full text on the front of the shirt reads, > "I survived Tsunami XMU 3/98" and on the back is "the wetter the > better." 'XMU' stands for 'Xena Main Unit.' > > Kewl! Obviously a reference to when the tank collapsed on set. (Perhaps the spirit of Gabrielle hurtled into Renee once again and this time made her rip out a huge fart. Which just overloaded the methane quotient and blew out the tank.) Hm--and perhaps it was the spirit of Gabrielle who inspired Renee to pretend to fart in the Coffee Talk Two video. KT - -- > Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net > > Soulmates > Xena Dinosaur Bards > http://cousinliz.com > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:58:23 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging On Saturday 07 Jun 2003 10:25 am, Cheryl Ande wrote: > "Errrm, you guys have been debating *one line* out of a low-rating ep that > isn't even bad enough to be on anybody's hate list for *two weeks*..... > > now that is truly obsessive. I'm impressed. > > cr" > > Well yes we are obsessive but I like Tsunami a lot. It is actually one of > my favorite episodes. Don't ask why but it is. Often when I'm in a Xena > mood I watch this one. Xena and Gabrielle are at their most Xenish and > Gabbish. Xena is resourceful and takes care of business with imagination > and saves the day with a gutsy idea (even it is absolutely ridiculous but > that's why I like). Gabrielle is at her sympathetic best with the young > wife and makes a pretty good marriage conselor. She also the epitome of > Xena's helpmate. Everyone learns lesson and comes out a better person - > except for Macon but there has to be one lost cause. > > CherylA Well you are certainly different! (Makes note in little black book - 'actually likes Tsunami'). Okay, okay, so I actually have a perverse liking for Key to the Kingdom. And Purity / Back in the Bottle. And I *love* God Fearing Child. So who am I to be casting derision upon eps that some other fan may unaccountably like. Doesn't stop me doing it though cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:32:10 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Braging On Saturday 07 Jun 2003 1:36 pm, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > Gotta agree with you, Cande. There's something so nice and simple -- no > gods messin' around or epic consequences. Character studies that don't > require reference books to figure out. I liked those change of pace set > pieces (like Paradise Found and It Takes One), where we were reasonably > prepared for the surprises. coming after the rift, I liked the confidence > that Gabs had in Xena and Xena's confidence in herself. I even liked the > WP's solution, which -- tho mighty convenient and probably not up to cr's > engineering specs -- was still credible within the Xenaverse. > > -- Ife I can't remember Xena's solution, though it was probably 'wrong'. What I *do* recall was that this upturned ship full of air stabilised at a particular depth. Now this is quite wrong (and I say that with some confidence even though I know there are those on this list who can and probably will contradict me if I'm in error here). Such a ship is *not* stable, it will tend to either rise faster and faster (as the pressure decreases and the air giving it buoyancy expands) or sink faster (as the air is compressed). However, it's not quite so blatant a whatever-we-decided-to-call-these-things-instead-of-'YAXI' as many in the series. Reason I don't care for the ep is precisely because there were no gods messing around or epic consequences. Gods messing around were *fun*. Epic consequences were dramatic. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:01:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's Braging rights On Saturday 07 Jun 2003 7:27 pm, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/6/2003 3:09:48 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz > > writes: > > I don't recall commenting on ... oops, so I did! Way back in the dim > > and > > distant past. Okay, so if you'd just like to hang on while I shoot my > > other > > foot... there, now I no longer walk around in circles. > > Jeez, cr. You're strangling reality on one list and shooting your foot on > this list. Hope you're not on any other lists, as your violent tendencies > might escalate. Besides, if you set the example of foot shooting because > you forgot you commented on something, there's a whole lot of the rest of > us who might feel pressured to do the same. Furthermore, you don't want KT > to be walking around in circles by herself, do you? > > -- Ife (already heading for your bomb shelter) I'm on *lots* of lists. And I absolutely do *not* want them all to feel pressured to follow my example and shoot my feet every time they make a mistake. I'm not a caterpillar and I would rapidly run out of feet. And there won't even be room for me to recuperate in my bomb shelter because it will be full of you and KT. cr "Don't move! Or I'll fill you full of..... little yellow bolts of light" - Crichton, Farscape ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:36:11 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 6/7/2003 4:16:58 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > Renee is not quite done with her analysis yet and so is a tad slow on the > reply. Just as she's ready to enunciate her line, Lucy who's been standing > there as her stoic Xena self, suddenly comes to a realization that, "Aw > hell, she thinks it's MY line-she's not going to say anything." And so, > purely to save the scene Lucy blurts out, "From you nothing else. From > me, nothing less". Renee, who was just about to speak the line, startles > and stares up at Lucy in surprise. (Leading to some fans > claiming that Gabrielle is surprised but delighted to realize that Xena is > now "healthy enough" to brag on her character.) > > And that's the way *I* think it happened. I imagine that was what you > were thinking too, yes? >> I mistakenly thought Cande had agreed with you but I see it was Liz instead, who obviously compounded her error by giving you some banned substance to smoke/drink. However, what I do like about the above scenario (fanfic that it is) is that Lucy instinctively does what her character would. She takes charge. She does the unexpected because it's the most efficient way to make the point quickly, move on and get out of the blasted water. Why wait for ROC/Gag (oops) to go on and on about what's perfectly obvious, when Lucy/Xena could do it faster herself? And that, ladies, is why "show's called Xena." > >C'mon - pick me apart! > > > > > >Sojourner >> Sorry, but I shot my wad arguing with Cande, who actually agreed with me. Check the addy, Ife. Check the addy. > > I imagine Ife, who TALKS about interpretation being in the eye of the > beholder and all views being valid, shall try to do just that...grin > Unfortunately, I do believe that. I didn't say I LIKED it. Even if you ladies with your wet scripts, wet actors, wet EVERYTHING, are all wet too. Bwahahahahaha! (That was supposed to be an evil laugh, but I fear it's tinged with insanity -- not a good sign if I'd hope not to drown in all this myself.) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:10:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena dvd's! Woo, just read at MaryD's site that the Anchor Bay Season 2 Xena dvds (for Region 1) are set for release Sept 9! And Season 3 maybe December (but more likely Jan/Feb 2004)! Sweet!! I can't wait... :) Hercules Season 1 comes out June 24, by the way, and it includes the telemovies like the ones with Lucy and Renee...hmmm...almost tempting, even though I'm not really a big Herc fan... -Sarah- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #158 **************************************