From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #150 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, May 31 2003 Volume 03 : Number 150 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #148 [IfeRae@aol.co] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Strange [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debts (was: Re: Chakram) [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Students vs. Replacements, was The Chakram [IfeRae] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Strange [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 01:10:20 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt In a message dated 5/29/2003 9:05:31 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > > > >Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:19:24 EDT > >From: IfeRae@aol.com > >Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debts (was: Re: Chakram) > > > > > > > "At the same time, I could only admire the fitting way Xena made Lao Ma > "big" > >again. What exquisite irony that Xena proved to Tien that -- even in > death -- > >Lao Ma had the power to destroy him through the words and "weapon" Lao Ma > got > >him to deliver himself to the one person she'd intended to serve at her > side as > >her enforcer -- her Warrior Princess. Bad as she was, ya gotta > love > >the WP. Nobody did it better. " > > Oh I never thought of of Ming Tien's death as contrived my Lao Ma. That's a > nice piece if irony but it also brings up the one problem I've always had > about Lao Ma. She is always seen as a positive force in Xena's life and for > the most part she was. However she also wanted to use Xena, yes she wanted > Xena civilized and tamed but I think in the end she saw Xena as a tool. > That is why she failed in to make young Xena "her" warrior princess - Xena > would always be her own person. Yet now I believe I see a different outcome > in the end. Lao Ma did make Xena "her" warrior princess in that Xena did > exactly what Lao Ma wanted. So Xena loses a part of herself in Chin not > because she kills Ming but because she is now a toll of some one else. > > CherylA > Oh, I still saw Xena as very much her own person -- acting out of genuine love and rage. I tend to believe that Lao Ma trusted Xena to do whatever was necessary, reinforcing that message with the hair pin. Like everyone else, Lao Ma knew Xena could do the dirty work she herself could not. The woman certainly was no fool. She knew she couldn't rule Chin with only nice words. Whether or not she intended Xena to kill Ming, Xena had chosen a second alternative that left him alive. In the end, she satisfied both her own outrage and proved the power of Lao Ma's words. No, I don't see her as a merely a tool with no control over how she was used. If she lost anything in Chin, she gave it up because she'd taken it as her job to clean up her own and others' messes, regardless of the blood that left on her hands. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 01:10:19 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #148 In a message dated 5/29/2003 9:25:21 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > So gods have not forsaken the world, > but > >are they aware of Caesar's manipulation? That's an interesting thought > and > >something to speculate about >> > > > >No it isn't! Mytical chakys and memories is bad enough, don't you think? > > Actually I started a longer discussion about the gods and Ares , etc and > suddenly it gave me a headach. Contemplating alternative realities, > memories masquerading as poetic longings, subtext vs maintaext and dancing > chakrams just about wore me out. I just couldn't cope with what Ares and > Aphrodite were upto in Caesar's world.>> Thank the gods! So to speak. I wondered when that expansive brain of yours would finally wear out. > Well I'm not militant about Xena and Gabrielle being lovers and I can > accept > romantic friendship. In my life I have many a female friend and male friend > and I guarrentee you I wouldn't be leaping into rings of fire, drinking > horse's blood to visit them in the afterlife, blowing up the world as I know > it when I'm wealthy and successsful just because I can't be with them. I > think such actions indicate stronger feelings than friendship. >> LOL! Thing is, X&G were ... shall we say ... "extreme" in the lengths they would go to vs. most folks (lovers or friends) we might know? Heck, I'm not sure about the drinking blood part no matter how much I love someone. Maybe I'd do it for my mother, but only if it were to keep her in this life. Other than that, I'll just have to catch up with folks when I get my own wings. Or horns. Anyway, I think it's precisely the fantasy of X&G's life that enables people to accept or discard such different aspects. - -- Ife - -- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:58:10 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram > > Hmmm. Xena carries a dagger in her cleavage. Gabrielle carries > > a Xena doll. Now what does THAT imply? > > That Xena has found a more interesting place to carry her > Gabrielle dollie? Long silence as KT's mind boggles over various dollie placements. > > > I wonder how the Xena dollie fared when Gabrielle was wearing > > those loose threads in FIN. Just how did it stay in place then? > > Just what was it holding onto? > > It firecely clung to the dainty gold chain connecting Gabrielle's > nipple piercings? (.)(.) > > -- > Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net You can always tell the fanfic fan. (Due to their pervisions...) KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:05:25 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews > > >Okay, missy (madamy?). First of all, because *we* think that, what > > makes > > >you think Xena sees it as any more than "The guy was drowning, I could save > > >him, so I did." > > > > > > > > Because she then brags about it as proving her good character. >> > > > > Argghhhhh!!! *%$#@^^^. The woman is so insufferably circuitous in her > logic that I could scream! Oh, I just did. Sorry everyone (except KT). No, no, not circuituous. I just keep hoping that if you hear the truth often enough, it just MIGHT sink in. Ife, in my world if you look a person in the face and say, "I'm a better person than you are" that is bragging. No amount of rationalization nor reveling in self-revelation changes that. Sure, you can THINK that all you want. But the minute you say to someone's face that you're better than they are, you are bragging. Come on. C'mon. Put your little lips together and make a puffy little "B" sound--Buuuuh RAAAA GIIIIING. Yes. Don't you feel better now? The truth shall set you free. And bragging about being a better person than somebody else is just not something Xena would ever do. Smile. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:07:17 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram > Ummm, no. Not from me, anyway. All I'll suggest is that Diana didn't > have a clue how to control it so her shot was random. Like a beginner with > a gun. > > cr Oh, oh, wouldn't it have been just WAY too kewl if they had given the chakram a recoil? Can you just imagine Diana throwing it and then suddenly squealing and falling over backwards? Gabrielle cutting a fish head with it by shoving it forward and then flying butt over biceps out of the frame, blown away by the back blast? Callisto tossing it in Ides and SCREAMING cuss words as she staggers backwards and drops out of sight behind the battlement. THAT would have been excellent! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:07:40 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' > << But wouldn't somebody (e.g. the Furies) have noticed > this fast-moving shiny thing in the background going boing-boing-ting ? > >> > > "Stealth" mode. > > -- Ife And in "The Quill is Mightier" it was in smelt mode. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:49:26 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram On Friday 30 May 2003 2:16 am, Stephanie Wilson wrote: > At 09:28 AM 5/30/2003 +1200, cr wrote: > > > I've always figured that it was always a skill, to be able to throw and > > > catch the Chakram, that took considerable effort to learn to do very > > > well. Like firing a gun. But then you have to explain how Callisto > > > could, without any backstory on it, > > > >I think the implication in the ep was that Callisto had spent a lot of > > time practising how to beat Xena. I always imagined she must have > > practised with a replica chacky. > > Ah, but if it were a replica chakram, then how did she get so good? If the > gun analogy works so good, it's because you can't practice with a replica > gun. But a replica gun won't fire. A replica chacky, OTOH, if properly made, would have all the normal physical properties of the real chacky. Bearing in mind that, up to that point, the chacky hadn't really displayed the super-normal properties it acquired later on. I know there's a certain degree of inconsistency in the chacky's powers throughout the series. But I just had a thought - the chacky that displayed most of the really magical powers was the yin-yang chacky. It could well be that, by fusing the light and dark chakrams in 'Chakram', the new yin-yang chacky gained far more powers than its predecessor. > It'd be easier (for me) to imagine Callisto chucking clay plates at > Theodorus from 100 meters than it is for me to imagine her having someone > craft a realistic chakram for practice - which we never see or hear of. Why? We never got to see or hear any detail of *any* of Callisto's career before she first appeared, but it was implied IIRC that she had studied Xena and practiced to become her equal. It seems quite reasonable to assume that some chacky practice could have been included. > Just blam-o, she can catch Xena's chaky, no reason why. Other than the > mystical ones you guys are coming up with, I mean. *s* > > S. Well I just came up with a very good non-mystical reason why. But you don't like it. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:08:58 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Strange Kinda OT, and not exactly a virus warning, but in the last couple of weeks I've had several invitations from lunacy, C N Winter, merwolf@bellsouth.net etc***, to look at their webcams / naughty pictures / date them. Very ironic since I'm not exactly subtext / fanfic-friendly. It appeals to my sense of the bizarre. Obviously there must be some fanfic fan who has my address in their address book and some variant of the Klez virus on their machine. cr *** Just so no-one gets the wrong idea, I know the invitations didn't really come from those people. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:08:21 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide On Friday 30 May 2003 2:34 pm, Cheryl Ande wrote: > cr wrote: > > Two words: Alternate reality. What Alternate Xena and Alternate Gabs > > did, like what Alternate Caesar and Alternate Joxer did, does not > > necessarily > > exactly reflect what the 'regular' Xena and Gabs would do. >> > > > > Are you implying that there is something about Caeser and Joxer that we > > haven't been told?! > > > > Ann > > Well actually as frightening as this may seem there is probably fan fiction > out there where Caesar and Joxer behave in a very alternative way with each > other > > CherylA Aaargh! No, that's *not* what I was intending to imply! 8-( I've just realised it could be read that way, but nothing was further from my thoughts. All I meant was, that *all* the characters in WFC behaved a little differenty from their 'regular' counterparts. I was just using Joxer and Caesar as two more-or-less-randomly chosen examples. Sorry for the confusion. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:25:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide On Friday 30 May 2003 8:41 am, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > > "Heh, I'll let cr take this one. I'm not implying who is or isn't a > > subtexter. I'm thinking the "best friend" theory may be wounded here but > > not necessarily killed." > > Two words: Alternate reality. What Alternate Xena and Alternate Gabs > did, like what Alternate Caesar and Alternate Joxer did, does not > necessarily > exactly reflect what the 'regular' Xena and Gabs would do. >> > > Are you implying that there is something about Caeser and Joxer that we > haven't been told?! > > Ann No, just that they are all, visibly, not *exactly* the same as their 'regular' counterparts. This is very evident in the case of Joxer, btw. It's alternate reality, and therefore the X-G relationship is not necessarily exactly the same as in the 'regular' world. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:36:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debts (was: Re: Chakram) On Friday 30 May 2003 9:19 am, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: (snippage for bandwidth) > But when Xena ultimately killed Baby Tien, I felt like you -- a new > dimension of "relief, intrigue and anxiety" about this "doer of dirty deeds > that must be done." This was truly a "human" hero who would chuck all that > idealistic stuff out the window in a moment of pure, very personal rage at > the monstrousness of Tien's ridicule and murder of such an important person > in Xena's life. At the same time, I could only admire the fitting way Xena > made Lao Ma "big" again. What exquisite irony that Xena proved to Tien > that -- even in death -- Lao Ma had the power to destroy him through the > words and "weapon" Lao Ma got him to deliver himself to the one person > she'd intended to serve at her side as her enforcer -- her Warrior > Princess. Bad as she was, ya gotta love the WP. Nobody did it > better. > > -- Ife Beautifully put, lfe. I just wrote a couple of paragraphs on it but I won't post 'em simply because you've said what I was trying to say, better than I managed to. ;) I love a plot that ties the threads together - such as the hair pin - so neatly. In that respect The Debts are, possibly, the best-plotted episode of Xena. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:15:12 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Friday 30 May 2003 8:07 pm, KTL wrote: > > << But wouldn't somebody (e.g. the Furies) have noticed > > this fast-moving shiny thing in the background going boing-boing-ting ? > > > > > > "Stealth" mode. > > > > -- Ife > > And in "The Quill is Mightier" it was in smelt mode. > > KT Uh-oh. She's baaaack! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:38:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Friday 30 May 2003 9:19 am, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > Ha! 'Stealth' definitely suggests something more sophisticated than > > just ricocheting off all the scenery. ;) > > > Yes, I said that in deference to your theory. I take it you missed the > tongue rolling around in my cheek. > > -- Ife Oh. I did. Sorry. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:19:07 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram At 09:49 AM 5/31/2003 +1200, cr wrote: >But a replica gun won't fire. A replica chacky, OTOH, if properly made, >would have all the normal physical properties of the real chacky. How do you make a proper replica of the chakram? And how do you know it can be done? How do you know a replica will behave as the original? Replica firearms don't. Since we're still hanging on to the gun analogy. ;) It's alot to assume, and I can't assume it. A replica gun won't work but a replica chakram will - why? Wouldn't it just be another dancy, mystical chakram, not a replica, if it could do all the things that Xena's chakram could? The gun analogy worked as far as saying that you had to practice alot to be proficient, but that's about as far as I can carry it without having some explanation from TPTB about the backstory of the chaky and Callisto, which we never got. Gah, TPTB, so many loose ends, still.... *sigh* >Bearing in mind that, up to that point, the chacky hadn't really displayed >the super-normal properties it acquired later on. I know there's a certain >degree of inconsistency in the chacky's powers throughout the series. Chaky YAXI. Say *that* five times fast. But it's not surprising. I hated YAXIs at first, but you coulda made drinking game out of spotting them by the end of the series. I celebrate them YAXIs now! But I just had a thought - the chacky that displayed most of the really >magical powers was the yin-yang chacky. It could well be that, by fusing >the light and dark chakrams in 'Chakram', the new yin-yang chacky gained far >more powers than its predecessor. It had a predecessor? Blarg, I haven't watched the yin/yang chakram episode in s00o long, or actually most of them. I should just turn in my Xena fan ID card right now. :( I suppose, if we wanted to assume that Callisto made her own perfect working replica of the chakram, that she could have stolen the 'light' chakram and practiced with that. > > It'd be easier (for me) to imagine Callisto chucking clay plates at > > Theodorus from 100 meters than it is for me to imagine her having someone > > craft a realistic chakram for practice - which we never see or hear of. > >Why? Because it's easier to believe that than her making/having made a "replica" chakram that works just like the original chakram but that we never see or hear about. And in a way, a sillier visual. > We never got to see or hear any detail of *any* of Callisto's career >before she first appeared, but it was implied IIRC that she had studied Xena >and practiced to become her equal. It seems quite reasonable to assume that >some chacky practice could have been included. I could assume that, yep. In fact, that's where my clay pigeons come in. Or wooden pigeons. Or just pigeons. But no chakram. > > Just blam-o, she can catch Xena's chaky, no reason why. Other than the > > mystical ones you guys are coming up with, I mean. *s* > > > > S. > >Well I just came up with a very good non-mystical reason why. But you don't >like it. :) > >cr Never said I didn't like it... S. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:33:51 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Students vs. Replacements, was The Chakram In a message dated 5/30/03 9:59:14 AM Central Daylight Time, ribaud@bnl.gov writes: << The killing in the temple was nevertheless under great duress, and Gabrielle had been set up to make it so. To what degree this represents warrior training, I would hesitate to say -- save that an experienced warrior (e.g., Xena) would have been much less likely to have been taken in by the set-up -- and I don't mean Gab's inclination towards Khrafstar. I mean that she'd have been able to have more control to her response to the situation Meridian presented. >> Yes, I think we are probably in agreement here. At that point, Gabrielle was to me like someone who'd learned about something, but not necessarily when or how to best use it. Even as late as season 6, she still questions her instincts. I mainly meant that her training gave her an alternative she might not have automatically chosen back when she shunned pointy weapons. Again, I say this within the context of the obvious set-up -- both from Khrafstar and the Xenastaff writers. << In any case, I think there is a distinction to be made between protecting people -- as even a (relatively, by S5 or S6 standards) innocent Gabrielle did for her home town, and being a warrior in a full sense. >> True, although I do see her as trying to protect Khraftstar at that point. Again, the writers made sure she didn't have her staff, but we've seen her use a well-placed kick to get out of such situations before. This is another one of those theme-driven eps where I have to accept that it was characteristic for Gabs to react as she did because that's what I saw her do. But that doesn't mean I don't think it was way too convenient and easily argued as "uncharacteristic." I tell myself, "Well, you want her to be 'human,' and humans make surprising mistakes sometimes." Part of the rationalization that comes with me being a fan, I guess. > << I think Gab would train someone else to approach problems from the > diplomatic side, rather than the martial, to a degree even > more pronounced > than she (at the end of the series) does herself. She's > learned how hard it > is to draw the line between the two; I doubt she'd care to > have to make that > distinction clear to another, given what it cost her to learn it. >> > > What's interesting about that is that Xena also started out > showing how to > solve problems without fighting, especially when innocent > nonwarriors were > involved. Heck, she let herself be captured when she didn't > want to hurt them. > She showed time and again that fighting should be the last > resort. But it was > like Amarice told her in "End Game" -- Xena didn't use > talking to take Pompey's > head off. It's the old "Do as I say, not as I do" conundrum. << Gabrielle has, more-or-less consistently, had trouble with accepting such situations, and in those eps, pays quite a price for it. >> Yes, I think that's a major difference between her and Xena. Xena is much clearer about her role as a warrior. Very often we see her prepared to fight as a first choice, but then using other alternatives if/when the situation presents them (frequently because of Gabrielle). Gabrielle is usually looking for nonphysical alternatives. Even when Xena was pregnant or carrying baby Eve on her back, or when Gabrielle was thrust into roles of leadership, she paid a price that Xena long ago accepted as part of her job. In that sense, I don't think Gabrielle would ever accept killing as a first or last choice, regardless of the situation. I don't think it was a matter of "experience," so much as her different concept of herself and her role. >I > could definitely see her teaching young Amazons the full > range of ways to deal > with something -- just as Xena had taught her. Umm. The Amazons. Yes, I could see that. But they are not in the position vis-`-vis Gabrielle that she was with Xena at first -- the Amazons are taught to be warriors -- and to know what that means -- from a very young age. They are, in a sense, saturated in it. The social connotations are quite different. >> Agreed. I meant I could see Gabrielle teaching them alternatives to fighting first. When the Amazons wanted to kill Brutus (which Xena seemed quite prepared to do) and punish Amarice, Gabrielle insisted on locking them up first. Not only did she see that "just," but it bought time to negotiate a better overall result. She did that with Xena, too, as with the "Horde" girl Pilee (?). << For whatever reason (spanning from brilliance on the part of TPTB to sloppy writing and poor continuity from the same), Gabrielle and Xena both had range to their characters unusual for fantasy creations. Sort of like being human... >> LOL! That's the ticket! Some of the fans' most heated discussions are about those "uncharacteristic" moments that teeter between "they wouldn't do that" and "but if we always knew what they would do, they wouldn't seem so real." Not an easy thing, destroying archetypes as you create new ones. But I wouldn't have had it any other way. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:33:55 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 5/30/03 3:06:34 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: << > Argghhhhh!!! *%$#@^^^. The woman is so insufferably circuitous in her > logic that I could scream! Oh, I just did. Sorry everyone (except KT). No, no, not circuituous. I just keep hoping that if you hear the truth often enough, it just MIGHT sink in. Ife, in my world if you look a person in the face and say, "I'm a better person than you are" that is bragging. >> Nope. I've heard no evidence for this. I gave you alternative interpretations. I gave you expression and tone of voice, context and sequence. What did I get? KT: She's bragging. Ife: How did you get that? KT: Because she essentially said, "I'm better than you." Ife: What makes you say that? KT: Because she's bragging. Circuitous. Just because you try to make it look like a "round killing thing" doesn't mean it's not a "sham rock" that falls to the ground with a plink. Heh. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:33:53 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide In a message dated 5/30/03 7:09:40 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Friday 30 May 2003 8:41 am, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > > "Heh, I'll let cr take this one. I'm not implying who is or isn't a > > subtexter. I'm thinking the "best friend" theory may be wounded here but > > not necessarily killed." > > Two words: Alternate reality. What Alternate Xena and Alternate Gabs > did, like what Alternate Caesar and Alternate Joxer did, does not > necessarily > exactly reflect what the 'regular' Xena and Gabs would do. >> > > Are you implying that there is something about Caeser and Joxer that we > haven't been told?! > > Ann No, just that they are all, visibly, not *exactly* the same as their 'regular' counterparts. This is very evident in the case of Joxer, btw. It's alternate reality, and therefore the X-G relationship is not necessarily exactly the same as in the 'regular' world. cr >> cr, dear, methinks we have *got* to work on your sensitivity to "tongue in cheek." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:33:54 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Strange In a message dated 5/30/03 7:08:39 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << Kinda OT, and not exactly a virus warning, but in the last couple of weeks I've had several invitations from lunacy, C N Winter, merwolf@bellsouth.net etc***, to look at their webcams / naughty pictures / date them. Very ironic since I'm not exactly subtext / fanfic-friendly. It appeals to my sense of the bizarre. Obviously there must be some fanfic fan who has my address in their address book and some variant of the Klez virus on their machine. >> Not necessarily a fanfic fan. Some months ago I got bogus messages supposedly from Sharon Delaney and Kym of Whoosh. The headers were written in a way that didn't draw much suspicion, but there were attachments involved. It's easy enough for someone on a list to get addys for ulterior motives. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #150 **************************************