From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #149 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, May 30 2003 Volume 03 : Number 149 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:19:24 EDT > From: IfeRae@aol.com > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debts (was: Re: Chakram) > > "At the same time, I could only admire the fitting way Xena made Lao Ma "big" > again. What exquisite irony that Xena proved to Tien that -- even in death -- > Lao Ma had the power to destroy him through the words and "weapon" Lao Ma got > him to deliver himself to the one person she'd intended to serve at her side as > her enforcer -- her Warrior Princess. Bad as she was, ya gotta love > the WP. Nobody did it better. " Oh I never thought of of Ming Tien's death as contrived my Lao Ma. That's a nice piece if irony but it also brings up the one problem I've always had about Lao Ma. She is always seen as a positive force in Xena's life and for the most part she was. However she also wanted to use Xena, yes she wanted Xena civilized and tamed but I think in the end she saw Xena as a tool. That is why she failed in to make young Xena "her" warrior princess - Xena would always be her own person. Yet now I believe I see a different outcome in the end. Lao Ma did make Xena "her" warrior princess in that Xena did exactly what Lao Ma wanted. So Xena loses a part of herself in Chin not because she kills Ming but because she is now a toll of some one else. CherylA > > - -- Ife > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:19:26 EDT > From: IfeRae@aol.com > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' > > In a message dated 5/29/03 5:27:06 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz > writes: > > << > << But wouldn't somebody (e.g. the Furies) have noticed > > this fast-moving shiny thing in the background going boing-boing-ting ? > > > > > > "Stealth" mode. > > > > -- Ife > > Ha! 'Stealth' definitely suggests something more sophisticated than just > ricocheting off all the scenery. ;) > >> > > Yes, I said that in deference to your theory. I take it you missed the > tongue rolling around in my cheek. > > - -- Ife > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= > > ------------------------------ > > End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #148 > ************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:18:28 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide > It is right for Alti and Xena to be puzzled by the experience, but why did > Xena assume they were meant to be past events? Why didn't she assume they > were visions of possible futures? Or simply the ravings of a deranged mind? > > Ann I think she didn't think of them as "past" or "future" events but of another life. Thy must have in some ways been more truthful to her the life she was leading in Caesar's world. As for a deranged mind I don't whom she would consider deranged at this point. I don't think Xena ever thought of herself as mad and although Alti is evil, Xena saw her as having all her wits about her. So if no one is mad and the the visions seemed true then Xena had to accept them. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:32:03 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #148 > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:19:31 EDT > From: IfeRae@aol.com > > > Well the gods should have still existed in Caesar's world. Xena never killed > them. In fact there was no big sleep here so we are probably in the same > time period in which Ides took place. So gods have not forsaken the world, but > are they aware of Caesar's manipulation? That's an interesting thought and > something to speculate about >> > > No it isn't! Mytical chakys and memories is bad enough, don't you think? Actually I started a longer discussion about the gods and Ares , etc and suddenly it gave me a headach. Contemplating alternative realities, memories masquerading as poetic longings, subtext vs maintaext and dancing chakrams just about wore me out. I just couldn't cope with what Ares and Aphrodite were upto in Caesar's world. > > I believe most folks agree X&G had more than a "simple" friendship, although > some may defne "friendship" as encompassing everything from "best buddies" to > "romantic." I do think this ep gave one of the strongest nods to the > subtext in terms of what we typically hear and see in media related to "romance." > To me, the love overtly expressed was conveyed in their day-to-day > interactions, which I typically see in deeply committed couples. If I hadn't seen that > over the course of the series, I wouldn't have been impressed by (believed) > there was more to that in Fates. Similarly, there are others who saw two loving > friends with a special bond, exploring the world together, who never wanted to > part and would be there for each other through thick and thin. They probably > watched Fates the way some subtexters watched all those male "red-shirt" eps, > discarding the interpretations that didn't "fit" with their perspective. Well I'm not militant about Xena and Gabrielle being lovers and I can accept romantic friendship. In my life I have many a female friend and male friend and I guarrentee you I wouldn't be leaping into rings of fire, drinking horse's blood to visit them in the afterlife, blowing up the world as I know it when I'm wealthy and successsful just because I can't be with them. I think such actions indicate stronger feelings than friendship. > > > > Oooo, I hadn't thought of it that way, in terms of clearing a path for Alti. > Yes! Well Caesar was so busy worrying about a past that never happened he forgot that he had a rather dangerous present. Actually I thought it would have been interesting to have seen what Xena's army would have done when the soldiers find out Caesar has killed Xena and Brutus and made Alti empress - I think things would have gotten very sticky. > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:34:55 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:41:53 +0100 > From: "Ann Reddecliffe" cr wrote: > Two words: Alternate reality. What Alternate Xena and Alternate Gabs > did, like what Alternate Caesar and Alternate Joxer did, does not > necessarily > exactly reflect what the 'regular' Xena and Gabs would do. >> > > Are you implying that there is something about Caeser and Joxer that we > haven't been told?! > > Ann Well actually as frightening as this may seem there is probably fan fiction out there where Caesar and Joxer behave in a very alternative way with each other CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 23:17:28 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] year of fighting women? LA Times, Nay 4, 2003, p. E8 (Calendar section), article "A guy's weakness for strong women" by Brian Lowry -- he lists Diana Rigg (Avengers); Xena; Buffy; Alias; Dark Angel; Birds of Prey; Leia; Sigourney Weaver; Kate Mulgrew in Star Trek; Bond women Michelle Yeoh and Halle Berry as older examples. (He left out Maureen O'Hara and Honor Blackman.) For this year he notes -- the female cyborg in Terminator 3; in Matrix 2 -- Jada Pinkett Smith, Monica Belluci, Carrie-Anne Moss; in X-2, Rebecca Romijn-Stamos, Halle Berry, Famke Janson, Anna Paquin and Kelly Hu; as well as Charlie's Angels 2; and Lara Croft 2. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #149 **************************************