From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #144 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, May 27 2003 Volume 03 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #143 ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram ["Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #143 > To me, these were all due signs of Xena's evolution, in terms of giving > herself a break, starting to accept herself as someone who could be the kind of > teacher she became in Sin Trade. Even in the end, I never doubted Xena could be > bad, selfish, foolish or any of her other human flaws. But I was equally sure > that she'd come to find a measure of peace and pride in the good in her. And > she deserved it, as she sure as Hades worked hard enough for it. > > You say "bragging." I say "statement of fact." So there! > > - -- Ife I have to agree with Ife here. Xena did a good thing here and she is proud of herself when she saves the idot from drowning. Look there was time when she would have let the sucker drown but she has moved away from that. She's damn proud of that change and she acknowledges it. Gabrielle is surprised not that Xena says that about herself but surprised that she finally recognizes the nobility that is within herself. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 18:00:27 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews > > Because she then brags about it as proving her good character. >> > > > > Argghhhhh!!! *%$#@^^^. The woman is so insufferably circuitous in her > logic that I could scream! Oh, I just did. Sorry everyone (except KT). Ah, tadpole, one can come to the right answer through many paths. A central truth radiates many strings to follow to its heart. > >> you expect?" she should have just given him the Sneer Look (tm) which > >> says, "You piece of crap, don't even TRY to talk to me." > > >> > > > No no no no no! We agree that Xena did not see herself as superior to > others (even if she acted that way, heh). She distinguished between petty > criminals like Dumbo and wannabe warlords out to hurt lots of folks. Snip snip Sorry, but I > really liked that she didn't snobbishly ignore him like she was above even > talking to someone like him. She saved him because he was a human being, not a > piece of driftwood. Sure, he was crap, but she treated him as a *human* piece > of crap. > Nope. Xena has vast contempt for people who prey upon others. Exactly because that was her sin. She's not into forgiveness -- the woman wants atonement. Listen to the contempt in her voice when she says to Gabrielle in Greater Good about why they're fighting the bad guy. "It's not about me. It's about these people. That's why we're here. People like this used to be my victims. I keep that in mind every time we come up against a warlord like Talmadeus." And Macon in Tsunami--he tries to attack and kill the weak ones in the group because they're "using up his air". LOL! While the atoning Xena cannot leave anyone to die (except Callisto), she still loathes people like her. That's why she fights against them. And she certainly doesn't consider herself better than them. > > And then > > Gabrielle could have said, "From you nothing more. From her, nothing > > less." That would have been absolutely "right". Or for him to scuttle off > > and for Gab to then say that privately to Xena. And Xena would have kept > > her angry look with just a very slight touch of amazed (and slightly > > exasperated) wonder over Gabrielle always seeing so much good in > > her. When she knows she's just so bad. > > > > No no no no no! I can't believe you of all people would suggest that, > except that you are just soooo invested in bad Xena. I couldn't have stood much > more of Gabrielle being the apologist, cheerleader and mouthpiece for Xena's > goodness. Wow--it continued right through to the end. (Except for parts of season four or when Gab was feeling bitchy.) Must have driven you nuts, eh? I loved that we'd get these little glimmers of Xena showing awareness > of being more than a piece of crap herself. This was at the end of the third > season, after they'd gone through the rift and she'd given her little speech > to Tara about being able to recreate yourself. And then walks out of the temple refusing to accept forgiveness from a jar. I LOVE that moment of Xena walking lonely out into the blazing sun--it is SO perfect. She's STILL working on making up for her rotten past and has the honor and nobility to not accept the easy way out. I loved the slight surprise on > Gabrielle's face when would verbalize what Gabrielle had become accustomed to > saying. We talk about the changes Xena saw in Gabrielle. Well, Gabrielle saw > changes in Xena too. > I never noticed that. Gabrielle HOPED to see changes in Xena. I don't remember ever seeing her reflect the surprise you mention. Speaking of noticing odd Gabrielle moments, I remember that there was one inexplicable bit in Past Imperfect to me. One of the soldiers is seeing Xena fight for the first time at the dam and he says, "She's amazing". Gabrielle gets the strangest look on her face. She almost looks surprised. I don't know if she wants to argue that point like she's thinking, "That's what YOU think--HA!" or what. It's one of a number of times when I couldn't figure out what Renee was trying to convey. And there's probably more but when Xena's in the scene, I'm always watching Lucy, so if Gabrielle is doing something I can't figure out, I wouldn't know it because I wouldn't see it. So therefore, I wouldn't notice any surprise on her face when she's with Xena. > To me, these were all due signs of Xena's evolution, in terms of giving > herself a break, starting to accept herself as someone who could be the kind of > teacher she became in Sin Trade. Even in the end, I never doubted Xena could be > bad, selfish, foolish or any of her other human flaws. But I was equally sure > that she'd come to find a measure of peace and pride in the good in her. And > she deserved it, as she sure as Hades worked hard enough for it. > Well, I was sure too--that was the whole point of the show. And after her meeting with Krishna, she literally believed that she could indeed be reincarnated as the Mother of Peace in her next life--that she'd "make it". > You say "bragging." I say "statement of fact." So there! > > -- Ife And I say I'm bored with this thread. Tsunami is one of my least favorite Xena-present eps. In fact it was a milestone to me that during the first rerun, I actually went to bed instead of watching it again. That had NEVER happened before. It's a dumb story, it's a heavy-handed preachy story and it's got Xena bragging on her good character. SNORT! Even Autolycus couldn't save this one for me. Blech. I think it's one of Manheim's worst. And I can't believe you got me to spend so much time talking about it...heh. KT Oh gods--and now Cheryl wants to try to make me discuss FATES! ARRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:54:30 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram I've been trying to follow this thread (It's me, not you folks--I'm not that quick.. ;~) I'm reminded of the archetype of the big dumb dog. Eager to please, empathetic and almost no intellect. I'm just glad Rob never had it talk. It would been like when Green Lantern had conversations with his power ring. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:37:01 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena tearaway desk calendar quickie POLL If we were to have something we would (heaven forbid) tearaway, why not pages with just fake watermarks? Does everyone know what I'm talking about? WordPerfect has been able to do them for years. I read that is finally available in Word 2002. I've also seen these used for promotional memo pads. The light grey images on a sheet of paper? Or have something like that without the calender. Has there ever been just a Xena notepad? Maybe with a Xena pen? Doodle on Lucy when you're talking on the phone. Draw horrible things on Joxer. And adding to what KT wrote, why not an Argo month, with little pictures of all the Argos? Captioned, of course. They all look alike to me. Oh, and how about a "stuntie" month! ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #144 **************************************