From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #142 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, May 26 2003 Volume 03 : Number 142 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena tearaway desk calendar quickie POLL ["H.J] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena tearaway desk calendar quickie POLL [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram [Cousin Liz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram [KTL ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 02:48:44 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena tearaway desk calendar quickie POLL >a hot tub scene for the subtexters in the bathroom ... >the shot of Xena running for the outhouse from In Sickness and >in Hell for the - umm, what do you people call the lavatory? You call that >the 'bathroom' too? How confusing!, Looks like we've got a dialect difference here. Perhaps also socio-historical, but let me start with the semantic: recall your Latin, cr, and note that "lavatory" is 'a place for performing ablutions', which would subsume a room for bathing... a bath-room. No confusion here in the Northern-Western quadrisphere! A typical residence in the U.S. contains at least one room used for both excretion and for hand/body ablution. But from what you wrote, it sounds as it these functions occur in different rooms there, a 'bathroom' for ablutions and a 'lavatory' for excretion, the latter being what you call "the loo", right? Well, in one of the houses I visited there in the 60's, a fairly nice middle-class home but of some age, at least the loo (or perhaps the whole bathroom?) had been added on to what had been part of the back porch. It seemed strange to me but might it be that in Auckland there was a public water supply before there was a sewage system? Now for something a Yank found \really/ strange, consider the paucity of electrical outlets ('power points' to you, cr). There were none at all in the rooms of the YWCA ("Y-dub" in Kiwiese) hostel where I stayed. In one nice, newish, brick house I visited there was a 3 bedroom wing around a side hall. The ONLY electrical outlet in all that area was in the hall closet!!! (It wasn't thought to matter, since it was only needed for vacuuming [that's 'hoovering', dear cr] the carpet.) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:43:02 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena tearaway desk calendar quickie POLL On Sunday 25 May 2003 19:48, H.J.J. Hewitt wrote: > >a hot tub scene for the subtexters in the bathroom > > ... > > >the shot of Xena running for the outhouse from In Sickness and > >in Hell for the - umm, what do you people call the lavatory? You call > > that the 'bathroom' too? How confusing!, > > Looks like we've got a dialect difference here. Perhaps also > socio-historical, but let me start with the semantic: recall your Latin, > cr, and note that "lavatory" is 'a place for performing ablutions', which > would subsume a room for bathing... a bath-room. No confusion here in the > Northern-Western quadrisphere! I agree that most of the terms used for the 'John' as I think it's called, are euphemisms meaning something entirely different. 'Toilet', 'Lavatory', 'Washroom', 'Bathroom' all literally mean a place to wash oneself, and have all been used to euphemistically designate the place of relieving oneself, *even when that place contains no facilties for washing whatsoever*. > > A typical residence in the U.S. contains at least one room used for both > excretion and for hand/body ablution. But from what you wrote, it sounds > as it these functions occur in different rooms there, a 'bathroom' for > ablutions and a 'lavatory' for excretion, the latter being what you call > "the loo", right? Yes. I think we may also have a diference in architectural customs. In middle-class New Zealand houses such as mine, the 'John' is a small room completely separate from the bathroom. It may also (though ours doesn't) contain a very small wash-hand basin set in the wall. The big advantage, of course, is that one does not have to hop around on one foot mentally tying knots in it while waiting for someone else to finish their bath or shower. Slightly more 'compact' houses and flats may often combine the two functions in the one room. I hate that. Slightly more upmarket houses than mine may have a combined bathroom/'lavatory' plus a separate lavatory somewhere else in the house. > Well, in one of the houses I visited there in the 60's, a fairly nice > middle-class home but of some age, at least the loo (or perhaps the whole > bathroom?) had been added on to what had been part of the back porch. It > seemed strange to me but might it be that in Auckland there was a public > water supply before there was a sewage system? No, probably not, the main sewage system (at least in central Auckland) dates from 1912. However, I did stay in a 1930's house that had a bathroom/lavatory in the house, plus a washhouse (i.e. for washing clothes)/lavatory on the back verandah (or porch). A choice of Johns. Delightful. Possibly the custom originated way back when the John (or 'dunny' in Australian) was actually an outhouse in the back garden, for very good aesthetic and health reasons, convenientlky located over the septic tank. Presumably one took baths in a tub in the kitchen, and when mains water arrived, inside bathrooms with fitted baths appeared, but the John stayed outside or just migrated to the verandah. That's my guess. > Now for something a Yank found \really/ strange, consider the paucity of > electrical outlets ('power points' to you, cr). There were none at all in > the rooms of the YWCA ("Y-dub" in Kiwiese) hostel where I stayed. In one > nice, newish, brick house I visited there was a 3 bedroom wing around a > side hall. The ONLY electrical outlet in all that area was in the hall > closet!!! (It wasn't thought to matter, since it was only needed for > vacuuming [that's 'hoovering', dear cr] the carpet.) I agree, electrical power outlets did lag behind. I've added a couple to this house don't tell the wiring inspectors. ;) Ditto phone jackpoints. In fact, in my computer room here, I've got 23 (no kidding!) assorted appliances, most as small as VCR's or printers or modems or tape decks, running off the one point, though not usually all at once. Just as well we use 230V, isn't it? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:09:47 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Sat, 17 May 2003, cr wrote: > On Saturday 17 May 2003 05:34, KTL wrote: > > > Very good points. You know now that I've thought about it, I think we're > > attributing false characteristics to the Chakram. What I think is that > > only Callisto and Livia had the guts to TRY to snatch and use it as a > > weapon. Because actually, anybody who got a hold of it was able to use > > it. > > > > Sooooooooo I think that while it is a signature weapon for Xena, it's just > > a piece of metal, fashioned by the gods yes, but usable by any who dare. > > I think we've been barking up the wrong yonic symbol here guys. > > > > The only "magic" about it seems to be shown in FIN when the Chakram is the > > ONLY thing that Xena can't pick up. She can pick up ghosts and living > > people, she can wear clothes, she can pick up and use weapons like the > > katana. The ONLY things she can't pick up is the chakram. > > Sorry, KT, I can't agree with you. The chakram *definitely* has > super-normal powers. I'll list just a few of them: > > 1. Its ability to change its edge sharpness - it bounces off some surfaces > and, on other occasions, cuts into them. I could give dozens of examples. It all depends upon how you throw it. > > 2. Its super-normal 'aim-ability'. There's no way a normal weapon could > have been thrown accurately enough to perform the 29 bounces in Been There > Done That, for example. > That's why the genre is called "fantasy". > 3. As an extension of this, there's its ability to cruise around in > 'stand-off' mode until required - most notably when it took out the Furies in > Coming Home. > I LOVE that bit--it was so furken funny. I could just imagine the Chakram pinging around out there, pretending it was a pin ball, racking up points, scoring huge hits and then coming home (so to speak) when it needed to. > 4. There was the way it broke when it hit Xena in Ides, when previously it > had survived regular repeated contact with stone and metal. Okay, it *may* > have been harbouring a slowly-spreading fatigue crack and just happened to > break at that moment quite by chance - but it hardly seems likely. In fact > it would have to be already broken right through on side of the 'ring' and > cracked through most of the other side - this would have been very obvious to > anyone handling it. It would even sound wrong. > No again, science is immaterial. It apparently broke because it "broke" Xena. Now did it break because Callisto had been warned by Mephistopheles not to hurt Xena physically when he sent her back to earth for the "temptation of Xena" (parallelling the temptation of Christ by Satan) and with this act she broke that agreement? Was his power of sending a spirit to earth also great enough to cause the chakram to destruct when Callisto broke the rules? This is such a defining moment of the series to me--I really wish SOMEONE would ask Rob and RJ why this happened. Great "theater" though... > 5. And what about the joining-the-chakram thing in 'Chakram'? The other > chakram certainly had the ability to fry any number of people - except Xena. > No, no it wasn't that it was Xena, it was that she was a total innocent when she picked it up. Eli's priest friend was not obviously. His faith faltered -- he did not trust in nor believe in his heart that he was innocent and pure. And so the dark chakram destoyed him. Xena WAS absolutely pure at that point--not even a trace of Original Sin on that soul. > > And this is obviously symbolic--her job as a warrior is finally over and > > she can at last rest in peace. So not only can she leave the chakram > > behind, she HAS to--she's not able to carry and use it anymore. > > > > And the next thing ya know, she's reborn as the Mother of Peace. > > > > KT > > Well now, that doesn't contradict the theory that the chaky's 'special'. > No it doesn't. That was just a statement that there were a number of clues in a number of episodes that Xena' work as an atoning warrior was part of this lifetime of hers and was over when she achieved redemption in FIN. And that she would therefore no longer need the chakram. (Though she does carry it again in Clones when's she post redemption Xena--a little gift from Alti.) KT > cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:19:59 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] X:WP moment on "Charmed" On Thu, 15 May 2003 Richan@aol.com wrote: > The season ender on "Charmed" almost seemed to be an episode of > "Xena: Warrior Princess." Piper Pheobe and Paige were all turned > into godesses (Athena, Aphrodite and Demeter) who had to fight the > Titans. Piper as Demeter had to worry about the safety of her baby. > And at the end of the episode' after losing her god powers, Paige > was asked if she missed being a "warrior princess." > > Richan KEWL! Xena is THE icon for strong women. It's amazing (and very pleasing) to me to see how the references to Xena are still found in many public places. Thanks for sharing this with us. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:45:03 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram > I think cr is right in that he says the chakram is "Xena's weapon". Ii is > not a mgical weapon but a weapon that is uniquely her's and her's alone. > Anyone can pick it up and toss it around but it will only perform in an > extraordinary manner in her hands. I think of it as her Excaliber more than > Wonder Women's lariet. Yeah but again, these weapons could not be used at ALL by anybody else, I don't think. I'm not sure about Wonder Woman but certainly Excalibur worked only for Arthur in the "old" version. Because XWP taught us that it also resonded to Xena--as we saw in Gabrielle's Hope. Xena is it's mistress and some how it knows it. Oh, I think the Chakram is partially sentient in some way. It LIKES flying through the air. I think Xena and the Chakram planned some of those wild trajectories together. They be buds. They cuddle at night. Xena sleeps with it because her first boyfriend, Ares gave it to her as a token of his love. And being Ares of course, it had to be a BIG ring. (He's of the "size matters" school) I'm just surprised Xena didn't wear it around her neck on a chain like other grrls wear their too big boyfriend's school rings. I > think that's why it breaks in Ides of March - it is used against it's true > mistress and in a way it self-destructs because of it. Yeah--that sounds right also because it is a magical weapon. But then why did it cut her in Valkyrie? Xena had lost all sense of herself but the Chakram hadn't. OR was the chakram only bound to the dark side of Xena? Which of course had disappeared in this ep also. It can only be > mended again when it is reformed or redeemed by finding it's other half > which happens in Chakram. The flawed chakram, the dark chakram which > betrayed it's true owner, I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't remember this part of the story. is redeemed by joining with chakram of light and > is once again made whole. After that we actually only see two other people > use it or catch it. Eve after her redemption and Gabrielle once she takes > Xena's place in the physical world as the warrior of the greater good. The > new chakram seems now to have an affinity only for those who follow the > enlightened path. > > CherylA Now THAT'S a very interesting observation. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:50:28 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram > "Knows"? "Redeemed"? An "affinity"? Um, okaaay. You probably go to New > Age thingies, don't cha? Definitely got more imagination than those of us > who see a pretty circle of metal. What about that fying pan in ADITL? Xena > sure made it do some neat tricks before its untimely demise. How come it > doesn't get to go to some kind of Heaven for Objects Xena Has Used, along > with other things she's made into magical weapons? Huh? Huh? > > -- Ife LOL! And I also DO agree with Ife. That Xena herself was the main weapon in her arsenal. Ife dear, perhaps the Chakram is jealous and Xena "enables" it to think it's the reason she's so successful as a warrior. I bet the breast dagger thinks it's real hot stuff too. Hmmm. Xena carries a dagger in her cleavage. Gabrielle carries a Xena doll. Now what does THAT imply? I wonder how the Xena dollie fared when Gabrielle was wearing those loose threads in FIN. Just how did it stay in place then? Just what was it holding onto? KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 10:05:27 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram Snipped only for bandwidth's sake most of Ife's remarkable and wonderful post about the Chakram > > > > -- Ife > > Well, I would originally have preferred it had the chacky been 'just a > weapon'. But it evolved beyond that - the powers it shows - most notably > in 'Coming Home' - are such that that theory became gradually untenable. > It was, at the least, an 'intelligent' weapon, able to hover around and home > in on the Furies. (And, in FIN, able to score a direct hit on the general > even though Gabs had, presumably, no practice at throwing it and seemed very > surprised at the result). > > cr Oooooooo, now THAT'S a very kewl thought. That the CHAKRAM wanted revenge for the physical death of Xena. And helped Gabrielle (who also wanted revenge upon him) so they both could get what they want. OR that the Chakram's magical powers made this happen. Either way, I very much like this concept of the Chakram being active in the taking Xena's murderer out. (Even though Xena had LET him kill her...) KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 14:16:41 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram KTL wrote: > Hmmm. Xena carries a dagger in her cleavage. Gabrielle carries > a Xena doll. Now what does THAT imply? That Xena has found a more interesting place to carry her Gabrielle dollie? > I wonder how the Xena dollie fared when Gabrielle was wearing > those loose threads in FIN. Just how did it stay in place then? > Just what was it holding onto? It firecely clung to the dainty gold chain connecting Gabrielle's nipple piercings? (.)(.) - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 13:28:57 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews > > All I can say is that in Tsunami she states that her behavior patterns > > reflect her character traits and these are obviously and expectedly far > > more honorable and noble than another person's.>> > > > > Okay, missy (madamy?). First of all, because *we* think that, what makes > you think Xena sees it as any more than "The guy was drowning, I could save > him, so I did." Because she then brags about it as proving her good character. > cluelessly asked why on earth she came back for him. What could she have > said that couldn't be interpreted as superior or bragging? ("Well, I've taken > life guard lessons and knew how to hold my breath longer and not panic.") If > she'd ignored him, that would be even more dismissive. > > Maybe she should've looked down sheepishly, brushed her toe around in the > dirt and said, "Awww, twern't nothin'." Better yet, "Awww, twern't nothin'. > You'd a done the same thing if you'd had 50 chances to redeem yourself, like I > have." Thank the gods YOU never wrote for the show. That would be exactly as bogus and lame as what she did say. Heh, you'd have screamed, "What?! That's not my Xena! She'd never be > that self-effacing in front of a piece of crap like that! Who's she think she > is? Gabrielle?" Pfffft back! > > -- Ife (Wiping the spittle off her chin. Ugh.) Not answering him is exactly what I've always thought her response to that challenge should have been. When the bad guy asked Xena, "What'd you expect?" she should have just given him the Sneer Look (tm) which says, "You piece of crap, don't even TRY to talk to me." And then Gabrielle could have said, "From you nothing more. From her, nothing less." That would have been absolutely "right". Or for him to scuttle off and for Gab to then say that privately to Xena. And Xena would have kept her angry look with just a very slight touch of amazed (and slightly exasperated) wonder over Gabrielle always seeing so much good in her. When she knows she's just so bad. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:50:18 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KTL" > > It can only be > > mended again when it is reformed or redeemed by finding it's other half > > which happens in Chakram. The flawed chakram, the dark chakram which > > betrayed it's true owner, > > > I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't remember this part of the story. > Well no one anyone ever said chaky betrayed Xena. It was stolen by Callisto and used against it's true mistress. I however see it as having a sense it has betrayed Xena. This the chakram's flaw - it can be used by anyone will with a dark will. In Chakram this flaw is cured by uniting it with it's light counterpart. After this we never see the chakram fall into undeserving hands. The redeemed Eve and Gabrielle are the only two people who we ever see handle the new chakram and they certainly never would use the chakram for evil purposes. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:59:37 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Chakram IfeRae wrote: > > When Diana launched it, since she had no idea how to control it, the chacky > had no target 'in mind' so just switched off its internal guidance and > bounced off whatever happened to be in the way. Nah the chaky was just having a bit of fun. It bounced around, whacked the crown off the kings head and then stuck in the tree. It probably was just miffed Xena loaned it out without asking permission. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:34:16 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Chakram > > It can only be > > > mended again when it is reformed or redeemed by finding it's other half > > > which happens in Chakram. The flawed chakram, the dark chakram which > > > betrayed it's true owner, > > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean here. I don't remember this part of the story. > > > Well no one anyone ever said chaky betrayed Xena. It was stolen by Callisto > and used against it's true mistress. Oh I see--I didn't realize you were talking about Xena when you said, "true owner" the first time. I thought I had missed something somewhere that explained the origin of that particular chakram, a little backstory on someone else. I however see it as having a sense it > has betrayed Xena. This the chakram's flaw - it can be used by anyone will > with a dark will. In Chakram this flaw is cured by uniting it with it's > light counterpart. After this we never see the chakram fall into > undeserving hands. The redeemed Eve and Gabrielle are the only two people > who we ever see handle the new chakram and they certainly never would use > the chakram for evil purposes. Again, I'm not totally sure this was an intentional "clue" about the chakram. Because it did perform for anyone who dared to take it and use it. I didn't see a lot of people taking Xena's sword out for a spin either. Gabrielle used it once to whack trees early on. Doesn't Eve use it also in Heart of Darkness? Doesn't she hold a sword on Gabrielle in the "church"? Is it Xena's sword? I'm still convinced that the block to people using the chakram was fear of Xena, not something in the chakram itself that stopped anybody else from using it. Sure, the chakram is emblematic of Xena. And she uses it the best. (Of course--she does EVERYTHING better than anybody else. Including being eloquent and a good storyteller. Uh-huh!) Since the chakram does work whomever seems to wield it, and especially since it does hurt Xena if she holds it wrong just like it would hurt anybody else, I'm not totally convinced that the chakram "chose" to break when it broke Xena's back. I think it had more to do with Callisto breaking her contract with Mephistopheles--because hurting Xena physically was against the rules in this endeaver. I toyed a little bit with thinking that perhaps Ares had put a protection spell on it early so it couldn't be used against Xena. But then surely it would have broken BEFORE it broke her back. And anyway, Ares likes warriors who can take care of themselves, so I don't REALLY think he'd do that. (Unless we figure he IS Xena's father--then all bets are off on what he might do for her.) And again, this is negated by it cutting Xena in Valkyrie. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #142 **************************************