From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest)
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Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #131
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chakram-refugees-digest     Thursday, May 15 2003     Volume 03 : Number 131



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews            [KTL <fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu>]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'  [KTL <fsktl@aur]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews            [KTL <fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu>]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>        [cr <cr@orcon.net.nz>]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>        [cr <cr@orcon.net.nz>]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy On So Graham Norton  [Fuzz <mahayden@dircon.co]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews                        [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'  [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>              [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews  [Sojourner <sojourner@paradise.net.nz]
  RE: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'  ["Ann Reddeclif]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews                        [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews                        [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'  [IfeRae@aol.com]
  RE: [chakram-refugees] Lucy On So Graham Norton  ["bookdaft" <bookdaft@voy]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:19:58 -0800 (AKDT)
From: KTL <fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

> << >> I differentiate
>  between "snore-worthy" and "so ordinary they've faded out."   For me, the
>  former are all Xena-lite, no matter how entertaining ("For Whom the Bell
>  Tolls" topping the list).  The latter would also be Xena-lite, even tho
>  "Promotheus" would top my list, were it not Xena-heavy.  IOW, it's
>  nearly impossible for me to completely dismiss anything with lots of
>  Xena or to love anything with little of Xena, regardless of the ep's
>  perceived quality. Sad, huh?

- -- Ife

Then later, Ife explained:


>
>
> Okay, I'd better clarify.  I was definitely talking *me* and not *we.*  I'm
> not suggesting that anyone else accept my concept, as it is a totally biased,
> impractical way of assessing quality.  (I know folks who consider any
> Gab-lite ep to be ordinary.)  Yes, I too liked "Little Problems" and even
> <gasp> "Fishsticks."  I would probably define "ordinary" differently under
> other circumstances.  But with XWP, Xena's presence is the primary
> determinant of whether an ep is memorable enough for me to watch repeatedly,
> rises above "mundane" or has any possibility of achieving "extraordinary"
> (like "Debt").
>


I'm absolutely with you all the way. I watched XWP purely to watch Lucy as
Xena. So when she's not there, to me the show falls back down into being
pleasant but nowhere near exceptional. And leaving me with a very great
awareness that I could well be spending my time doing something much more
pleasureable than sitting in front of the TV for this hour. And just what
do you mean this is "impractical"?! ;->


> If it weren't for my liking Lucy so much, I'd have more trouble with eps
> where she spends a lot of time as a Xena look-alike or Xena disguised as
> somebody like that huckster in "Vanishing Act."


Ooooooooo, that one hasn't been replayed REAL often around my house
lately. Just a dozen or so times when it was still new.  There's some real
fun bits in it and I always love Bruce Campbell in comedies.  The "lesson"
in this one was presented with a pretty heavy hand, I felt. But it beats
out any of the Xena--lite ones for sure.


  It's not so bad if Xena's
> pretending to be Cleopatra, Autolycus' concubine or the Mother of Peace, as
> she still retains enough of her character.  I also liked eps like "Remember
> Nothing," "Chakram" or "Fates," where Xena wasn't quite herself, but still
> recognizable.  Bottom line, I watched XWP for Xena, with everything else
> secondary -- poorly plotted, questionable eps notwithstanding.  It's sort of
> like "There Are Thousands More Like Me" -- if it involves Xena, it can't be
> "ordinary."  <g>
>
> -- Ife


Absolutely.  And that is one FABULOUS line I think.  It is absolutely pure
Xena. Because while Xena knows she's exceptional physically and in her
warrior skills, I think what she's talking about in this line is the
spirit of perserverance, defiance and willingness to die for their
freedom that her fellow Greeks have in their hearts.

I think that Xena has never considered her character as extraordinary--she
thinks lots of people are better people than she is. So when she
says, "There are thousands more like me", it's something she believes
absolutely and something therefore very truthful and valid for her to say.

KT
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Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:38:17 -0800 (AKDT)
From: KTL <fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'

Ife wrote:

>
> This may be a bit off our TATMLM discussion, but I don't include her chakram
> as part of her singular abilities.  I always found it interesting that TPTB
> showed Callisto controlling the chakram so early on.  It was like
> underscoring that even the hero's signature weapon could be used for "good"
> or "bad" purposes, regardless of Xena's own intent, by herself and others.


I wish that someone would ask Stewart exactly WHY Callisto could handle
the chakram right from the first moment we saw her. I wonder if perhaps
because at that time in the series (Pre-rift, pre-Debt) Callisto and her
story of the way she became what she was stood as a metaphor for the evil
in Xena's soul. And as that creation of Evil Xena, Callisto almost became
Evil Xena or at least close enough to Evil Xena to have become her own
scourge upon the world. And as a living emodiement of Evil Xena, yeah sure
she could control the Chakram. ?

> Xena could've chosen to use the "good" chakram later on to kill gods, instead
> of fusing it her old "dark" chakram, underscoring her understanding that
> "nobody" should have that power.  To me, her singular abilitiess  came from
> within, from her own learning, efforts, character or skills.  The ones
> granted to her by someone else (e.g., as Eve's protector) were temporary.
>
> -- Ife


Yeah very good point. And I think this is part of why Xena couldn't
control her imitation of Lao Ma's telekinesis powers. Because she never
achieved the sense of peace and detachment that Lao Ma (and the
"force") wanted her to. And I think that in two ways Xena was blocked from
using the powers. Because she was not in the right state mentally and also
because she didn't believe she could ever get into that state. Lao Ma was
another person whom Xena idolized. And could never believe she could be as
good and as spiritually strong as. (Despite Xena seeing what she'd done to
keep her husband's power for herself and despite Lao Ma's ferocity when
Xena tried to kill her child.)

KT
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Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:59:16 -0800 (AKDT)
From: KTL <fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

 Mark B. wrote:

>
> Both IS and ...warlords were great eps.  They are two that I find myself
>    often pulling out of the stack.   I also liked the way Joxer and  Gab
> kept getting befuddled with X in Callisto's body.   BTW... I was
> impressed with how Joxer was willing to go up against who he thought was
> Callisto in order to try and save Argo!!

Yup. I think that's what made Xena his "forever friend".

I thought Kevin was excellent in Ten Little Warlords. And I didn't always
like him in the early eps.  He was just too swarmy for me at the
beginning. But in IS, he does an excellent job of playing the arrogant ass
brought down to his knees by the loss of sword, power and face.

One thing I really like about this ep was the Joxer/Gabrielle half-crazed
with anger scenes. I love it that Gabrielle has been given lessons in
anger management from Xena. That's Xena, the "Destroyer of Nations". I
really enjoyed how Renee snarls out her little poem as she portrays
Gabrielle getting madder and madder and madder.



 >
> now quickly scurrying back to lurkdom....
>
>
> Mark



Hey!  Come back here--fresh blood is always refreshing.

KT
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:32:03 +1200
From: cr <cr@orcon.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>

On Wednesday 14 May 2003 11:52, IfeRae@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 5/13/03 3:37:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
> cr@orcon.net.nz writes:
>
> << Oh, I entirely accept Clones, and Deja Vu, etc - but they are,
> explicitly, 'outside' the main storyline.    (One reason amongst many that
> I can't accept
>  MWF - because it purports to be 'in' the main story and I can't
> rationalise it.)>>
>
> LOL!  "'Outside' the *main* storyline"?  Bwahahahahaha!  Do you not accept
> that the Xenaverse is so vast that it encompasses every period up to the
> present and beyond?  That it covers every version of creation and
> afterlife, as well as simultaneous timelines and dreamworlds?  There is
> little "linear" about XWP.  Even your reliance on episode sequence is
> flawed, given that many were shown out of their originally planned order or
> not orginally planned at all.  Well, do what you must to achieve "logic"
> about that.  I'll look for other things to rationalize -- like Gabs
> slapping Xena.  Grrrr.

Oh dear, do I have to be tiresomely pedantic and point out that *everyone* 
implicitly accepts that there is a main, linear, Xena story?    That, so far 
as what I might call 'contemporary' episodes go (i.e.  those which aren't 
either flashbacks or ubers (have I got that term right?), the story starts 
with HTLJ The Warrior Princess, continues via Sins of the Past, and concludes 
with Friend in Need.  

And that everyone's discussions about Xena's development, and Gabs', and the 
development of the subtext, and every other theme in the series, assumes the 
existence of this linear storyline.    Extensive fannish efforts go into 
fitting the 'flashbacks' into their right sequence in the storyline.   

It is a fundamentally linear story.   The fact that occasional episodes 
(often comedies) could be shifted a little forward or backward in relation to 
each other does not negate this, it merely indicates that the episodes 
concerned do not contain any significant development in character or plot.   
The occasional 'alternate-timeline' episodes are, in effect, grafted onto the 
side of the main storyline, but usually their location in time can be fairly 
precisely established with respect to the main sequence.   

Take Armageddon Now, for instance (which we're currently debating on another 
list).   Even though it's alternate, and a Herc ep at that, its elements can 
be located quite closely with regard to the main Herc and Xena storylines, 
viz:
the 'now' of the episode is after Maternal Instincts, before Sacrifice
the initial sortie into the past was timed a few months before Hercules' birth
the excursion to Cirra was at the time of Xena's attack on the town (and this 
was before the evil Empress Xena timeline split off from the 'regular' 
timeline)
the scene with evil Empress Xena and Gabs on the cross is in the 'present' of 
the alternate timeline, i.e. between MI and Sacrifice in time (though not in 
sequence of events)



>  >  > Omigod!  You did?  Why, you ol' closet romantic, you.  <g>
>  >
>  >  Closet?   Romantic?   [suspiciously]:  This isn't one of those subtexty
>  >  things, is it?      ;)>>
>  >
>  > Is it?  Takes one to know one. <g>
>
>  Hmm, didn't know _that_ was a subtext episode.    ;)
>
>
> <sigh>  My head hurts.  Have your wife 'splain to you why *some* people
> might see romantic qualities in the
> sitting-close-with-arm-behind-Gabrielle-clinking-champagne-glasses scene,
> 'k? Word of warning -- you might not want to tell her what *you* might've
> been thinking instead, if you ever shared a similar moment with her.
>
> -- Ife

Errm, no.   The ep you mentioned.    Takes One to Know One.    Wasn't 
subtexty, was it?   I did like Discord though   ;)

cr
... running for cover....
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:42:16 +1200
From: cr <cr@orcon.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>

On Wednesday 14 May 2003 05:16, Ann Reddecliffe wrote:

(quoting cande, I think? ):
> Meanwhile Xena has indeed come into conflict with the authorities.  Xena
> has busted Gabrielle out of jail and has caused havoc in the streets and
> zoos of Los Angles.  Unfortunately the audience doesn't get to see the
> havoc, we a merely told about it through newscasts and eyewitness accounts.
>  The one interview with the slacker at the zoo was funny but it would have
> been better
> to have some footage of Xena taking LA apart piece by piece.>>  .

I think maybe it would have blown the FX budget for the episode   :)

cr
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:54:49 +0100
From: Fuzz <mahayden@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy On So Graham Norton

On Tue, 13 May 2003 21:01:07 -0400, bookdaft wrote:

>Creation posted that Lucy is supposed to be on BBC America's So Graham
>Norton sometime soon.  (If this has already been posted here, my apologies
>for the redundancy.)

Actually the show was filmed and aired last night on Channel 4 in the UK.  Lucy
was most definitely there, and was the only guest apart from the group doing the
musical number.  I was lucky enough to be in the audience during the filming
(and even better, the green room afterwards <G>), but that's a whole other
tale!!.
 I haven't got a clue when BBCA repeats the shows, however.
Fuzz
*****************************************************************************
A Friendship Forged by Fate to Endure Forever
*****************************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:12:15 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

In a message dated 5/14/03 2:00:22 AM Central Daylight Time, 
fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes:

<<  >
 > now quickly scurrying back to lurkdom....
 >
 >
 > Mark
 
 
 
 Hey!  Come back here--fresh blood is always refreshing.
 
 KT
 = >>

Absolutely!  Especially someone willing to stand up for a Xenalite ep and say 
nice things about Joxer and Gabs.  (Pssst.  SOME people can be a little 
biased, when it comes to the WP.  Okay, that includes me too.)  And don't 
worry about the "fresh blood" thing.  I'm sure KT didn't mean that literally. 
 Well, at least I *think* she didn't. 

- -- Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:12:17 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'

In a message dated 5/14/03 1:39:32 AM Central Daylight Time, 
fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes:

<< I wish that someone would ask Stewart exactly WHY Callisto could handle
 the chakram right from the first moment we saw her. I wonder if perhaps
 because at that time in the series (Pre-rift, pre-Debt) Callisto and her
 story of the way she became what she was stood as a metaphor for the evil
 in Xena's soul. And as that creation of Evil Xena, Callisto almost became
 Evil Xena or at least close enough to Evil Xena to have become her own
 scourge upon the world. And as a living emodiement of Evil Xena, yeah sure
 she could control the Chakram. ?
  >>

You know, it's like he saw both Callisto and Gabrielle as prototypes to 
accompany Xena -- each with seminal qualities that went way beyond original 
expectations.  It's ironic that Callisto ends up an angel, while Gabrielle - 
while still with a good heart -- becomes the warrior, both able to use the 
chakram.  On one hand, each character stood on her own, with her own 
development.  On the other, they were integrally tied to our understanding of 
Xena, with Xena's development tied to theirs, and theirs to Xena's.  The 
concept was masterful.  

They could've made the chakram a magic weapon tied only to Xena.  But early 
on it's established that the power comes from the character -- her soul -- 
not from an external instrument -- which is also how the series ends.  As you 
say, I don't know if Stewart consciously did that, but I do believe it was 
part of his concept of making the characters live (be "real") vs. a fairy 
tale where a weapon becomes a character in itself.  Not sure if that makes 
sense, as I'm thinking out loud here.

- -- Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:12:14 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <<Send In The Clones>>

In a message dated 5/14/03 2:49:16 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz 
writes:

<< Oh dear, do I have to be tiresomely pedantic and point out that *everyone* 
 implicitly accepts that there is a main, linear, Xena story?>>

You mean, that she was born, did a few youthful baddies, traveled the world, 
had a kid unexpectedly, reformed, traveled the world some more, had another 
kid (who did a few youthful baddies herself), and died?  Sure, I can accept 
that as the main, linear Xena story.  

  << That, so far 
 as what I might call 'contemporary' episodes go (i.e.  those which aren't 
 either flashbacks or ubers (have I got that term right?), the story starts 
 with HTLJ The Warrior Princess, continues via Sins of the Past, and 
concludes 
 with Friend in Need. >>

Nope, for me the main story starts when someone (presumable Atrius) and 
Cyrene "rolled around like weasels," producing a baby girl destined to change 
the world.  Hmmm, wonder if infant Xena's first cry was "Yiyiyiyiyiyi" (or 
something equivalent)? 
 
 <<And that everyone's discussions about Xena's development, and Gabs', and 
the 
 development of the subtext, and every other theme in the series, assumes the 
 existence of this linear storyline.    Extensive fannish efforts go into 
 fitting the 'flashbacks' into their right sequence in the storyline.>>

Um, no, actually "everyone's" discussions don't do that.  They often pick 
something (e.g., a character trait, defining event, influence) and then make 
the timeline fit with their theory, which sometimes means throwing out or 
rearranging the "right" sequence to support that theory.  I love the 
hindsight stuff, where a flashback blows previous theories out the water.     
 
 <<It is a fundamentally linear story.   The fact that occasional episodes 
 (often comedies) could be shifted a little forward or backward in relation 
to 
 each other does not negate this, it merely indicates that the episodes 
 concerned do not contain any significant development in character or plot.   
 The occasional 'alternate-timeline' episodes are, in effect, grafted onto 
the 
 side of the main storyline, but usually their location in time can be fairly 
 precisely established with respect to the main sequence. >>

Uh huh.  Riiiight.  Keep workin' on that.  It'll give us something to argue 
about if Cande runs out of steam with her reviews.  Hey!  I heard that!  Wash 
your mouth!  
 
 >  >  > Omigod!  You did?  Why, you ol' closet romantic, you.  <g>
 >  >
 >  >  Closet?   Romantic?   [suspiciously]:  This isn't one of those subtexty
 >  >  things, is it?      ;)>>
 >  >
 >  > Is it?  Takes one to know one. <g>
 >
 >  Hmm, didn't know _that_ was a subtext episode.    ;)
 >
 >
 > <sigh>  My head hurts.  Have your wife 'splain to you why *some* people
 > might see romantic qualities in the
 > sitting-close-with-arm-behind-Gabrielle-clinking-champagne-glasses scene,
 > 'k? Word of warning -- you might not want to tell her what *you* might've
 > been thinking instead, if you ever shared a similar moment with her.
 >
 > -- Ife
 
 Errm, no.   The ep you mentioned.    Takes One to Know One.    Wasn't 
 subtexty, was it?   I did like Discord though   ;)>>

<sob>  How can two people who agree so often still end up talking from 
different planets?!!!  :: taking deep breath::  Okay, I was not referring to 
that ep specifically, though I see my attempt at cleverness may have led you 
to that.  I was still talking about "Clones" and your complimentary comment 
about the champagne scene.  My "takes one" comment was a triple entendre 
flying leap that obviously fell on its face -- referring to your "take" on 
whether there was subtext, my "take" on your "take" (as it appears that I may 
be a closet romantic), and your "take" on whether my "take" had merit.  
Understand now?  No?  `S'okay.  I'm not sure I do either anymore.  <sigh> 
Let's say my comment had nothing whatsoever to do with "Takes One," and leave 
it at that. 
 
<< ... running for cover....>>

Won't do you any good, as I'll probably be under there with you.  
Platonically, of course. <g>

- - Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:34:31 +0100
From: Sojourner <sojourner@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

At 14:12 14/05/2003 -0400, IfeRae@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/14/03 2:00:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
>fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes:
>
><<  >
>  > now quickly scurrying back to lurkdom....
>  >
>  >
>  > Mark
>
>
>
>  Hey!  Come back here--fresh blood is always refreshing.
>
>  KT
>  = >>
>
>Absolutely!  Especially someone willing to stand up for a Xenalite ep and say
>nice things about Joxer and Gabs.  (Pssst.  SOME people can be a little
>biased, when it comes to the WP.  Okay, that includes me too.)  And don't
>worry about the "fresh blood" thing.  I'm sure KT didn't mean that literally.
>  Well, at least I *think* she didn't.
>
>-- Ife

She's from Alaska. She'll take it fresh but prefers frozen.

And I gotta point out TLW is not Xenalite - just Lucy-lite. But one of my 
favourites.

Sojourner
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:34:35 +0100
From: "Ann Reddecliffe" <xjv05@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'

I always found it interesting that TPTB
> showed Callisto controlling the chakram so early on.>>>
>I wish that someone would ask Stewart exactly WHY Callisto could handle
the chakram right from the first moment we saw her. I wonder if perhaps
because at that time in the series (Pre-rift, pre-Debt) Callisto and her
story of the way she became what she was stood as a metaphor for the evil
in Xena's soul. And as that creation of Evil Xena, Callisto almost became
Evil Xena or at least close enough to Evil Xena to have become her own
scourge upon the world. And as a living emodiement of Evil Xena, yeah sure
she could control the Chakram. ?>>

The two other people we see controlling the chakram in the series are Eve
and Gabrielle (in FIN).  Eve would fit with this theory, because she was in
her "evil" phase when she was controlling it.  At that point she was
continuing the path that Callisto had started.  The Evil Eve path

Gabrielle, on the other hand, seems to have gained this ability only when
she came out of Xena's shadow as leader and warrior.  A different path.....

Ann
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:50:21 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

In a message dated 5/14/03 1:22:17 AM Central Daylight Time, 
fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes:

<< I think that Xena has never considered her character as extraordinary--she
 thinks lots of people are better people than she is. So when she
 says, "There are thousands more like me", it's something she believes
 absolutely and something therefore very truthful and valid for her to say.
  >>

Boy, this is a great example of how we can rationalize things diffeently, 
using the same standard.  <g>  I'm in total agreement about Xena's not seeing 
herself has extraordinary -- in the sense of "better than" others as a 
person.  I too believe she sees everyone as having the capacity to do 
extraordinary things if they're willing to commit to it and have faith in 
themselves -- precisely because she knows the extent to which she is a 
product of her own work ethic and hunger for new ways to challenge herself 
and excel.  

Having said that, I liked the "thousands more" threat, but didn't find it to 
be nearly as "Xenaeque" as the comment "from you, nothing; from me, nothing 
less" ("Tsunami"), which you thought was totally unXena -- and for the same 
reasons.  As you may recall, I see her as someone who compares herself to 
herself.  If she's committed to something, she gives it her all -- expects 
"nothing less" than her best shot.  You saw it as uncharacteristic bragging 
(comparison to the idiot guy), which I'd agree with if I saw it as that too.  
Instead, I saw it as the flip side of "thousands more like *me*" --  with 
confidence in herself radiating outward to others (except lost causes like 
idiot guy).  

Anway, I just think it's interesting that we agree on the same character 
trait, yet disagree on examples we think support that trait.  Neither of 
thinks she'd brag.  You don't (nor did I) see her bragging with "thousands 
more," even though some could interpret it that way.  But with "nothing 
less," you did see it as bragging (because another person was involved?), so 
believed Xena wouldn't say that.  She said it, so I looked for an 
interpretation that wouldn't be bragging (which involved dismissing the other 
person as her reference point).   Fascinating.

- - Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:56:35 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews

In a message dated 5/14/03 1:36:26 PM Central Daylight Time, 
sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes:

<< And I gotta point out TLW is not Xenalite - just Lucy-lite. But one of my 
 favourites.
  >>

Sorry, Lucylite = Xenalite in my book.  Much as I loved Callisto, Hudson will 
never be an acceptable stand-in for Lucy, who is the only Xena I recognize, 
no matter who that skinny blonde in TLW was supposed to be.  (Yeah, yeah. 
Denial.) <g>

- -- Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:01:42 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me'

In a message dated 5/14/03 3:33:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes:

<< The two other people we see controlling the chakram in the series are Eve
 and Gabrielle (in FIN).  Eve would fit with this theory, because she was in
 her "evil" phase when she was controlling it.  At that point she was
 continuing the path that Callisto had started.  The Evil Eve path>>

Um, don't forget, Eve also caught the chakky as Good Eve, when she was being 
dragged through the desert and Momma Xena tried to cut her daughter loose. 

<< Gabrielle, on the other hand, seems to have gained this ability only when
 she came out of Xena's shadow as leader and warrior.  A different path.....
  >>

 Again, I'm not sure the chakram was important, so much as the apparent fact 
that certain chosen characters could control it for good or bad purposes, 
Xena included.
 
- -- Ife
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:43:15 -0400
From: "bookdaft" <bookdaft@voyager.net>
Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Lucy On So Graham Norton

I can't say for sure when they will run Lucy's interview.  I watched the
first few minutes of the one with Linda Hamilton Tuesday night and the year
2002 was mentioned; also people looked a bit Christmassy, so I'm assuming it
was that taped around that time.  It could have been a repeat.

If I recall correctly, not long ago, that show had an interview with Susan
Sarandon and I think she mentioned her outspokenness in relation to the war
with Iraq.  I don't recall if this was before or after the BULL DURHAM/Hall
of Fame incident or not.  But the inference was that it was a fairly recent
interview, at least to my mind.  Susan Sarandon has long been known for her
willingness to speak her mind and they may have been discussing that in
general and not specific to Iraq.

At any rate, there is a website we can use to look it up.  It may take a
while but I have no reason to assume that Lucy's interview won't air in the
not-too-distant future.

bd

- -----Original Message-----
From: Cheryl LaScola [mailto:cjlnh@webtv.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:13 PM
To: bookdaft
Cc: Chakram-Refugees
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy On So Graham Norton


Hi-
I did stay up last night to see what this Graham Norton Show was all
about and it was Alex Kingston.  The problem is when I looked at the
Channel 4 UK /V Norton site (as linked by Mary D), I found a screengrab
of Alex K.'s appearance and it was dated 1992.

My fear is the BBC America site will be showing old shows vs. the live
TV Lucy did tonight in the UK.  It may be a while before we see the
current show and LUCY.

C


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