From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #109 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, April 22 2003 Volume 03 : Number 109 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Male Bards [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Male Bards ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Male Bards Oooo, oooo, I got another one---Michal Salat. Oh and LJ (AKA Lisa Jain) also. KT On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/20/2003 3:50:23 AM Central Daylight Time, > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > > Jamie Boughen has a large body of work. > > > And Jim Kuntz. > > -- Ife > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:09:53 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Male Bards >Oooo, oooo, I got another one---Michal Salat. Are you sure this Michal is a guy? "Michal" is my Israeli friend's daughter's name. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:13:54 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Hellen of Troy and Horsing Around >The TPTB at Renaissance Pictures did the same. Only the horse was >constructed from the reed boats you see in every other episode of "Xena: >Warrior Princess." \Was/ the X:WP horse supposed to be made of reeds from boats? I thought they would have been just common water-edge plants from the general area. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:54:04 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 On Friday 18 April 2003 06:45, cande@sunlink.net wrote: (re K. Sorbo) > I just find > the guy just a bit full of himself like Shatner but without the goofy > charm. > > CherylA Bill Shatner has goofy charm? OK, I'll shut up before I start a off-topic Star Trek Wars.... ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:31:44 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:32, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > IOW, it's nearly > impossible for me to completely dismiss anything with lots of Xena or to > love anything with little of Xena, regardless of the ep's perceived > quality. Sad, huh? > > -- Ife That (roughly speaking) goes for me too. What's your view on 'Ten Little Warlords' which was of course LL-free but Xena-heavy? (Personally, I thought it was a great ep, the writing and Hudson's performance made up for LL's absence). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:46:09 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Friday 18 April 2003 02:23, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > > I like this logic, but I would add a different classification. YAXIs are > when the show is internally inconsistent, with no reference to the outside > or real world. That way the new chakram where the old one should have been > used is a genuine YAXI. Nothing to do with anything that goes on off > screen, treating the screened episodes as "all completely true" the chakram > switch is inconsistent. So it is a real YAXI. I'd certainly agree with that. > Incredible events (#4) like turning rabbits into stones and leaping off > cliffs just need us to stop thinking about the real world - these suspend > disbelief moments are the TATMLM moments. And that.... > Events like rain and no-one getting wet (#2) are when the real world does > intrude and we are not supposed to notice. Happens in Sin Trade too BTW. > This includes things like the gas canister in Girls JWTHF. These are > Things We Are Not Supposed To Notice TWANSTN, an entirely new category. aka 'bloopers' ? > #3 puzzling occurrences - these are the lifeblood of lists, because it is > what we can all discuss :-) > > Ann OK, and what about references to Real Life (i.e. history or geography) that are completely wrong, or impossible? Like the (real) place names in OAAA, or (again from OAAA) the fact that the Greeks won the Battle of Marathon, not the Persians as OAAA would have it. We need a term for those too, I think. They don't seem to fall into any of the above categories. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:03:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 On Friday 18 April 2003 17:09, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > Amen! I never felt he "got" (or seriously wanted to "get") XWP. > Consequently, I doubt he ever understood the appeal. His comment about > reducing the subtext to draw in a wider audience is indicative to me of his > ignorance, as I believe the subtext was heightened by the Xenastaff's true > love of the show and respect for each other -- not some add-on that he > implies. The reason "Prometheus" remains one of my least favorite eps is > because of Sorbo. I was soooo glad Xenastaff realized XWP didn't need him > to succeed. I tolerated him in that "Child" ep because Xena was obviously > the main protagonist, not his little sister. My apologies to Herc/Sorbo > fans, but both of 'em left me cold. > > -- Ife 'God Fearing Child' was an excellent ep, IMO, just regarded as a Xena ep with some pretty heavy guest stars in it. Sorbo was OK as a guest star, but really Hera (Meg Foster) was the best. Zeus was not too bad either. He had that really good line "Reconsider. You've always held a special place in my heart, Hercules-- but it's a place that can as easily be filled by your loving memory." The snarl he got on 'loving memory' was great. But - did anyone find the Proxidicae reminiscent of the Green Egg Men? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:39:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Saturday 19 April 2003 08:31, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > > OK, so how do we deal with episodes like Little Problems which are Xena > lite, but definitely not ordinary. Gabrielle and Aphrodite doing their > Viking twins bit, one of Gabrielle's best fight scenes and the unbelievable > fight between that child and hulking men (she is not heavy enough to do > some of that damage!) Or The Quest? Very little Xena, but most > memorable....Velasca, rope fight, Autolycus, amazons and a questionable > kiss.....? > > > Ann Well, technically..... (to quote Xena in YAT ;) Little Problems, The Quest, and Ten Little Warlords were _not_ Xena-lite because Xena was present all the time, just in another body. (As it happens I like all three of those eps.) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:47:02 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Saturday 19 April 2003 08:33, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > How about alternative interpretations of reality? When Fates Collide could > rewrite history and give us several things that didn't fit into previous > chronologies, but we accepted them as internally consistent. Just an > alternative history. Perhaps we should accept that TPTB were deliberately > emphasising the point that Joxer's memories of events could not be relied > on. Which might go some way to explaining surviving falling off the cliff > in Looking Death ITE. > > Perhaps their survival had something to do with the fact that they landed > in a bay that wasn't under the cliff they fell off of. CR will have to > explain that one. LOL! No explanation needed. The actual filming conditions and locations have nothing to do with the internal consistency of the episode. (Just as well too.... otherwise, do you know just how much territory the Gabdrag would have covered? ;) > << Incredible events (#4) like turning rabbits into stones and leaping off > cliffs just need us to stop thinking about the real world - these suspend > disbelief moments are the TATMLM moments.>> > > >>Involving Xena, right? Oh, all right. And maybe Gabs too. I'm > > assuming this wouldn't include gods or other nonmortals/nonhumans. Hmmm, > were there any other mortals besides X&G and Herc who demonstrated or > should be included in TATMLM? >> > > Good point. I think we expect gods to do unbelievable things. Ares > turning rabbits into stones would be perfectly reasonable. It is Xena > doing it that causes the problem. I think this is where reference to the > real world comes in. Well, there's also Xena's magic chacky. And Xena's imprssive ability to make rockets bounce. I think we just have to accept that as part of Lao Ma's powers that Xena inherited. After all, Xena also had shamanistic powers in Sin Trade (and Them Bones), and so did Alti > << #3 puzzling occurrences - these are the lifeblood of lists, because it > is what we can all discuss :-) >> > POWLTD (Puzzling Occurences We Love To Discuss)? Or are you saying these > fall > under YAXI's?> > -- Ife (who has a feeling our terms have a dim chance of being adopted)> > > ROTFL. So what?! :-) I think it is one of the things I love about this > show, that it can keep my brain functioning on so many levels. > > Ann I think, to get lfe's terms (or were they cande's?) adopted, they need to be a lot more snappy and catchy than TWANTSN and POWLTD. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:01:28 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Chakram-refugees] Thousands-- On Sunday 20 April 2003 12:36, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: > As for the question of the Persians going around Xena and her barn in > OAAA, the fight was based loosely on Thermopylae, where the main Persian > Army, which was huge, had to go along the narrow sea coast between the > sea and the mountains, It was too big to go anywhere else. At the narrow > point at Thermopylae the Persians were stopped for a while by a small force > of Spartans, as dramatized in the underrated (by Maltin) 1962 film The > Three Hundred Spartans. The Persians finally sent a small force around > by a narrow path through the mountains and got behind the Spartans, who > were hit from both sides and wiped out. My theory of 'How to fix OAAA' would simply have put the fort/hut Xena fought in, commanding the mountain path. It would be very simple for one person (of Xena's ability) to stop the infiltrating force on a path like that. Now why, oh why, didn't TPTB think to do it that way? It would have left the main theme of the ep completely untouched and fixed all the YAXIs (well, that, and changing the place names to something consistent with reality....) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:30:37 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Friday 18 April 2003 02:23, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > << Personally, I > think The Titans and Solstice Carol probably head my list of snoreworthy > eps, > followed by The Path Not Taken. >> > Prometheus isn't on my 'snoreworthy' list, I quite liked the Green Egg Men > and the huge bird;>> > > OK, CR you rattled my cage here!! Prometheus wouldn't make my snoreworthy > list (see later), but the green egg men go into a whole another category - > the I-can't-believe-they-did-that embarrassingly awful list. Suspend > disbelief is one thing, but those Green egg men just are way too > unbelievable. Why green? Why polystyrene eggs? Hmmm. I must watch the ep again. It just seemed OK to me at the time. Y'know, while driving back from Gisborne on the Waikaremoana road today (which is 100 miles of winding gravel hill road - the sort of road I like but gives most drivers the heebie-jeebies), for no detectable reason there drifted through my mind one of my 'ouch' awful moments from Herc - from The Enforcer (which is an ep I otherwise like) - when the Enforcer hijacks a chariot and goes to take off, the wheels spin! (Okay, so my little Escort was being a bit uncivilised and spinning its own wheels on some of the more entertaining corners, but still, it's a bit of a mental leap, and I know what makes the Escort's wheels go round....) Anyway, just to make sure we noticed, TPTB gave us a close-up of the chariot wheels spinning. Ouch! I guess if they just added a steerable wheel at the front they could have done away with the horse and pre-empted Nicholas Cugnot, Trevithick, Benz et al by 2000 years. ;) > >>Anyone else got any nominations for 'eps so ordinary they've faded out' > > ?>> > > Key to the Kingdom > Takes one to know one > Giant killer > > Ann Hmm. KTTK and TOTKO I quite liked. Giant Killer I disliked quite strongly, first because I'm not really happy with Biblical themes intruding (quite aside from the YAXI involved, historically), and second 'cos it reduces Xena to the status of a supporting actor in somebody else's myth. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:49:09 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Saturday 19 April 2003 11:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/17/03 6:38:52 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << > >In LDITE (which is an ep I like very much) - howcome Xena and > > > > Gabs survived the wagon going over the cliff with no injuries? > > > > If you watch in slo-mo, you see Xena pushing off from the mountain, as > > the wagon plunges over. And, no, I do not need to hear the engineering > > reasons for why that still might not be enough. > > She'd still land with the same force, *but* the further she was from the > wagon at the moment of impact, the safer she would be from having it > landing on her. > > > If she can leap buildings, ships, > > trees, etc. in a single bound, than you'll just have to accept she can > > do it with mountains. > > And Gabby? > > > The slo-mo shows Xena holding on to Gabs. Yeah, yeah, Gabs was unconscious > and more dead weight for Xena, but maybe Gabs' new sports bra had > parachute-like qualities we didn't know about. Ever think of that, Mr. It > Aint Scientifically Possible? > > -- Ife Or maybe Xena's superhuman powers just extended to saving Gabby, yet again.... ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 08:35:40 -0500 From: Stephanie Wilson Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Aphrodite in Helen of Troy? Aphrodite was in the first quarter of Part 1, shown with Hera and Athena, asking Paris to choose which is more beautiful. Aphrodite then gives Paris an apple, upon which he sees a beautiful girl (Helen). I was kind of confused there, feeling that scene was way out of place in this adaptation (because this adaptation doesn't have much to do with the Greek gods like, say, Hercules: The Legendary Journey did where they were practically present in every other scene). But later when Paris is sent to Sparta he sees the girl and recognizes her, which comes into play later, so the scene was probably there to both show the involvement of the gods in mortals' lives as well as lay the foundation of the story between Paris and Helen. I'm no expert on _The Iliad_, but from what I can tell so far, take out all the long and confusing similes and pages and pages of endless battle scenes and all the interaction and intervention of gods with gods and gods with mortals and mortals with gods, and you have the meat of the story, which is basically what "Helen of Troy" is. And so far, it's pretty good. Can't say I wouldn't be amused if someone somehow added Quintus of Smyrna's "Fall of Troy" to the mixture, at least the addition to the Trojan ranks of Penthesileia, the Amazon queen... :> S. At 06:34 PM 4/20/2003 -0400, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: >The Internet Movie Database entry for Helen of Troy, the USA Network >miniseries which begins tonight, lists an actress playing "Aphrodite". > >This is a little surprising. I had gained the impression that the mini is >supposed to be a realistic retelling of the Trojan story, so it's odd if >they have one of the gods on hand. Articles I have seen say that Helen >is victimized by both Greeks and Trojans in the mini, as in the Xena >episode Beware Greeks --, but unlike XWP they have Paris as a good >fellow. > >Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:37:11 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:18:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Well, there's also Xena's magic chacky. > This may be a bit off our TATMLM discussion, but I don't include her chakram as part of her singular abilities. I always found it interesting that TPTB showed Callisto controlling the chakram so early on. It was like underscoring that even the hero's signature weapon could be used for "good" or "bad" purposes, regardless of Xena's own intent, by herself and others. Xena could've chosen to use the "good" chakram later on to kill gods, instead of fusing it her old "dark" chakram, underscoring her understanding that "nobody" should have that power. To me, her singular abilitiess came from within, from her own learning, efforts, character or skills. The ones granted to her by someone else (e.g., as Eve's protector) were temporary. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:37:14 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:17:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > OK, and what about references to Real Life (i.e. history or geography) that > are completely wrong, or impossible? "Real Life"? You mean, outside the Xenaverse? Is there such a thing -- at least when we're talking XWP? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:37:13 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Saturday 19 April 2003 04:32, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > >IOW, it's nearly > >impossible for me to completely dismiss anything with lots of Xena or to > >love anything with little of Xena, regardless of the ep's perceived > >quality. Sad, huh? > > > >-- Ife > > That (roughly speaking) goes for me too. What's your view on 'Ten Little > Warlords' which was of course LL-free but Xena-heavy? > (Personally, I thought it was a great ep, the writing and Hudson's > performance made up for LL's absence). > LOL! I forgot all about that one, which should answer your question. I'm afraid that wouldn't qualify as "Xena-heavy" in my book, because I was only picturing Lucy in that role. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #109 **************************************