From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #106 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, April 19 2003 Volume 03 : Number 106 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 [IfeRae@aol.co] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [IfeRae@aol.com] RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews ["Ann Reddecliffe" I somehow have gotten the impression over the years that Sorbo expected Xena > to be a frequent guest character on his show and to exist primarily as a > boost for his ratings. I think it rankled him a lot that Xena developed a > very loyal cult following and the character became a cultural icon. Now > this a personal prejudice but of all the Xena and Herc stars I have seen he > is the only one I didn't like. I just find the guy just a bit full of > himself like Shatner but without the goofy charm. > Amen! I never felt he "got" (or seriously wanted to "get") XWP. Consequently, I doubt he ever understood the appeal. His comment about reducing the subtext to draw in a wider audience is indicative to me of his ignorance, as I believe the subtext was heightened by the Xenastaff's true love of the show and respect for each other -- not some add-on that he implies. The reason "Prometheus" remains one of my least favorite eps is because of Sorbo. I was soooo glad Xenastaff realized XWP didn't need him to succeed. I tolerated him in that "Child" ep because Xena was obviously the main protagonist, not his little sister. My apologies to Herc/Sorbo fans, but both of 'em left me cold. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:32:18 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/17/03 9:23:50 AM Central Daylight Time, xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes: Ife wrote: << I think YAXI has been applied much too broadly. I feel they fall into at least four major categories -- 1. obvious mistakes (e.g., new chakram appearing in flashback where old chakram should've been used); 2. situations the crew couldn't necessarily anticipate or control (e.g., rain falling, but we're not supposed to notice and the characters don't get wet, as in the beginning of "Locked Up"); 3. puzzling occurences involving characters other than Xena; and 4. what we're dubbing TATMLM moments -- incredible heroics that involve Xena. >> <> So real YAXI's are presumed unintentional? Mistakes? << Incredible events (#4) like turning rabbits into stones and leaping off cliffs just need us to stop thinking about the real world - these suspend disbelief moments are the TATMLM moments.>> Involving Xena, right? Oh, all right. And maybe Gabs too. I'm assuming this wouldn't include gods or other nonmortals/nonhumans. Hmmm, were there any other mortals besides X&G and Herc who demonstrated or should be included in TATMLM? << Events like rain and no-one getting wet (#2) are when the real world does intrude and we are not supposed to notice. Happens in Sin Trade too BTW. This includes things like the gas canister in Girls JWTHF. These are Things We Are Not Supposed To Notice TWANSTN, an entirely new category.>> LOL! Yes! I love it! << #3 puzzling occurrences - these are the lifeblood of lists, because it is what we can all discuss :-) >> POWLTD (Puzzling Occurences We Love To Discuss)? Or are you saying these fall under YAXI's? - -- Ife (who has a feeling our terms have a dim chance of being adopted) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:32:16 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 4/17/03 9:23:50 AM Central Daylight Time, xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes: << Personally, I think The Titans and Solstice Carol probably head my list of snoreworthy eps, followed by The Path Not Taken. >> Prometheus isn't on my 'snoreworthy' list, I quite liked the Green Egg Men and the huge bird;>> OK, CR you rattled my cage here!! Prometheus wouldn't make my snoreworthy list (see later), but the green egg men go into a whole another category - the I-can't-believe-they-did-that embarrassingly awful list. Suspend disbelief is one thing, but those Green egg men just are way too unbelievable. Why green? Why polystyrene eggs? >>Anyone else got any nominations for 'eps so ordinary they've faded out' ?>> Key to the Kingdom Takes one to know one Giant killer >> Wow, I liked "Solstice" and "Takes One," and have a certain fondness for "Key." If I might indulge in some hair-splitting , I differentiate between "snore-worthy" and "so ordinary they've faded out." For me, the former are all Xena-lite, no matter how entertaining ("For Whom the Bell Tolls" topping the list). The latter would also be Xena-lite, even tho "Promotheus" would top my list, were it not Xena-heavy. IOW, it's nearly impossible for me to completely dismiss anything with lots of Xena or to love anything with little of Xena, regardless of the ep's perceived quality. Sad, huh? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:31:58 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews Wow, I liked "Solstice" and "Takes One," and have a certain fondness for "Key." If I might indulge in some hair-splitting ,>>> That is what discussion groups are all about IMO.:-) >> I differentiate between "snore-worthy" and "so ordinary they've faded out." For me, the former are all Xena-lite, no matter how entertaining ("For Whom the Bell Tolls" topping the list). The latter would also be Xena-lite, even tho "Promotheus" would top my list, were it not Xena-heavy. >> OK, so how do we deal with episodes like Little Problems which are Xena lite, but definitely not ordinary. Gabrielle and Aphrodite doing their Viking twins bit, one of Gabrielle's best fight scenes and the unbelievable fight between that child and hulking men (she is not heavy enough to do some of that damage!) Or The Quest? Very little Xena, but most memorable....Velasca, rope fight, Autolycus, amazons and a questionable kiss.....? Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:33:05 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' <> >>So real YAXI's are presumed unintentional? Mistakes?>> How about alternative interpretations of reality? When Fates Collide could rewrite history and give us several things that didn't fit into previous chronologies, but we accepted them as internally consistent. Just an alternative history. Perhaps we should accept that TPTB were deliberately emphasising the point that Joxer's memories of events could not be relied on. Which might go some way to explaining surviving falling off the cliff in Looking Death ITE. Perhaps their survival had something to do with the fact that they landed in a bay that wasn't under the cliff they fell off of. CR will have to explain that one. << Incredible events (#4) like turning rabbits into stones and leaping off cliffs just need us to stop thinking about the real world - these suspend disbelief moments are the TATMLM moments.>> >>Involving Xena, right? Oh, all right. And maybe Gabs too. I'm assuming this wouldn't include gods or other nonmortals/nonhumans. Hmmm, were there any other mortals besides X&G and Herc who demonstrated or should be included in TATMLM? >> Good point. I think we expect gods to do unbelievable things. Ares turning rabbits into stones would be perfectly reasonable. It is Xena doing it that causes the problem. I think this is where reference to the real world comes in. << Events like rain and no-one getting wet (#2) are when the real world does intrude and we are not supposed to notice. Happens in Sin Trade too BTW. This includes things like the gas canister in Girls JWTHF. These are Things We Are Not Supposed To Notice TWANSTN, an entirely new category.>> LOL! Yes! I love it! << #3 puzzling occurrences - these are the lifeblood of lists, because it is what we can all discuss :-) >> POWLTD (Puzzling Occurences We Love To Discuss)? Or are you saying these fall under YAXI's?> - -- Ife (who has a feeling our terms have a dim chance of being adopted)> ROTFL. So what?! :-) I think it is one of the things I love about this show, that it can keep my brain functioning on so many levels. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:08:20 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/17/03 6:38:52 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << > >In LDITE (which is an ep I like very much) - howcome Xena and > > Gabs survived the wagon going over the cliff with no injuries? > > If you watch in slo-mo, you see Xena pushing off from the mountain, as the > wagon plunges over. And, no, I do not need to hear the engineering reasons > for why that still might not be enough. She'd still land with the same force, *but* the further she was from the wagon at the moment of impact, the safer she would be from having it landing on her. > If she can leap buildings, ships, > trees, etc. in a single bound, than you'll just have to accept she can do > it with mountains. And Gabby? >> The slo-mo shows Xena holding on to Gabs. Yeah, yeah, Gabs was unconscious and more dead weight for Xena, but maybe Gabs' new sports bra had parachute-like qualities we didn't know about. Ever think of that, Mr. It Aint Scientifically Possible? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:44:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/18/03 3:32:02 PM Central Daylight Time, xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes: << -- Ife (who has a feeling our terms have a dim chance of being adopted)> ROTFL. So what?! :-) I think it is one of the things I love about this show, that it can keep my brain functioning on so many levels. >> Heh. There are those who might question the "brain functioning on so many levels part" about us obsessed folks. Howsomever .... You didn't address my question about TATMLM moments in terms of mortals besides Xena and possibly Gabs. First, I couldn't think of any other characters (except possibly Eve and Eli under the influence of godly powers). Can anyone else? Second, if we can think of such a character (not under divine influence godly powers), should he/she be eligible for TATMLM? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:44:07 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 4/18/03 3:30:43 PM Central Daylight Time, xjv05@dial.pipex.com writes: << >> I differentiate between "snore-worthy" and "so ordinary they've faded out." For me, the former are all Xena-lite, no matter how entertaining ("For Whom the Bell Tolls" topping the list). The latter would also be Xena-lite, even tho "Promotheus" would top my list, were it not Xena-heavy. >> OK, so how do we deal with episodes like Little Problems which are Xena lite, but definitely not ordinary. Gabrielle and Aphrodite doing their Viking twins bit, one of Gabrielle's best fight scenes and the unbelievable fight between that child and hulking men (she is not heavy enough to do some of that damage!) Or The Quest? Very little Xena, but most memorable....Velasca, rope fight, Autolycus, amazons and a questionable kiss.....? >> Okay, I'd better clarify. I was definitely talking *me* and not *we.* I'm not suggesting that anyone else accept my concept, as it is a totally biased, impractical way of assessing quality. (I know folks who consider any Gab-lite ep to be ordinary.) Yes, I too liked "Little Problems" and even "Fishsticks." I would probably define "ordinary" differently under other circumstances. But with XWP, Xena's presence is the primary determinant of whether an ep is memorable enough for me to watch repeatedly, rises above "mundane" or has any possibility of achieving "extraordinary" (like "Debt"). If it weren't for my liking Lucy so much, I'd have more trouble with eps where she spends a lot of time as a Xena look-alike or Xena disguised as somebody like that huckster in "Vanishing Act." It's not so bad if Xena's pretending to be Cleopatra, Autolycus' concubine or the Mother of Peace, as she still retains enough of her character. I also liked eps like "Remember Nothing," "Chakram" or "Fates," where Xena wasn't quite herself, but still recognizable. Bottom line, I watched XWP for Xena, with everything else secondary -- poorly plotted, questionable eps notwithstanding. It's sort of like "There Are Thousands More Like Me" -- if it involves Xena, it can't be "ordinary." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #106 **************************************