From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #105 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, April 18 2003 Volume 03 : Number 105 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #103 [cr ] [chakram-refugees] [OT] Not Here [cr ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews ["Ann Reddecliffe" That belief was not just verbally created to convince us, but visually as > well. > > It's what is done in advertising...I'm forgetting the exact word right now, > but it's about swaying people's feelings and influencing them to believe a > certain way about something. We may want to decide there is a reason to > believe this sometimes, in this case, with Xena. > Lilli, Lilli, Lilli. You've been listening to Other People on the list too long. Yes, your intelligent, well-reasoned arguments for our belief in Xena's superhuman qualities were quite interesting. However, nobody had to convince me of anything or give me a reason to believe it. I knew Xena could do it the first time I saw her, 'cause I'd done something like that myself (in my fantasies, at least) since I was a wee girl. And that was before I knew anything about SuperMAN. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:37:34 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Wednesday 16 April 2003 23:07, Sojourner wrote: > > > > [cr said:] > > > > > > > > > One of those occasions when the director should have > > > > > listened to the star, IMO. > > > > > > > > [meredith said:] > > > >I couldn't disagree with you more. (big snip) > > > > > > [Sojourner said:] > > > Gadzooks! I'm with you on this one Meredith. > > > > > > Sojourner > > > >Well we know *you're* not my soulmate then, don't we? > > > >cr > > I know! It's weird, eh? But that's what I like about this community - only > one person I have met in person on on-line has got as near as 90% to "my > take" on XWP and even then the arguments when we disagree have been > doozies. And that person is not my partner - she won't even watch FIN a > second time. THAT was a doozy of a "debate" too. > > But, no matter how we disagree, it's the fun of the talk that continues. > > Even if you are an old curmedgeon who has no idea about .... gee .... > anything....really ..... > > Sojourner You're wrong! I have *lots* of ideas about everything!! And they're all wildly original, I know that because nobody else ever agrees with them. So there! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:39:36 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Thursday 17 April 2003 02:17, cande@sunlink.net wrote: (snip fanfic discussion) > Anyway I used the post to plug L. Fox's story simply because I thought they > were very good. Also there are so few guys writting I just like to get > their names out there. They have written some terrific stories and their > point of view is just a bit different than the women who write. > > CherylA Actually, I was just responding personally. Not looking to imply that other people wouldn't find fanfic worthwhile. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:44:58 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #103 On Thursday 17 April 2003 02:25, cande@sunlink.net wrote: (re: 'There are thousands more like me') > > Yes I have to agree this is a great line. It's actually a perfect line. > The Persians don't know what to expect from the Greeeks so the first Greek > they meet is some lone woman in a barn who beats the crap out of them. > Then she says that she isn't special there are thousands just like her > waiting for them. If I were the Persian army I'd be really worried if > every Greek woman could fight like this and if the women are like this what > would the men be like. > > CherylA Oh dear I feel a hair-splitting coming on. Xena is most certainly *not* the first Greek they've encountered, since they've just beaten the Greek army at the Battle of Marathon and sacked quite a number of villages (that's in the storyline of OAAA). I won't elaborate on what they might have encountered historically since, IIRC, they were defeated at Marathon so were not advancing on Athens by land therefore the whole of OAAA doesn't fit. Sorry. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:52:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Thursday 17 April 2003 11:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/16/03 6:08:26 AM Central Daylight Time, > sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: > > << Even if you are an old curmedgeon who has no idea about .... gee .... > anything....really ..... > > > Hey! Watch it! Who you callin' an old .... Oh. You meant cr. Okay. > Carry on. > > -- Ife Yeah. What I said. Her soulmate. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:46:01 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Thursday 17 April 2003 11:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/16/03 4:03:23 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << But overall, for an ep to be 'believable', *most* of the things in it > have to > make sense. We can suspend disbelief about a few things but not them > all. > > I can suspend disbelief enough that Xena could defeat the guys in the barn > - but *not* enough to believe that they were so overawed that all common > sense left them and they didn't do the obvious after they left. > > > How do you distinguish the former disbelief from the latter? How is the > latter more unbelievable than other times large groups of bad guys ran off > after a brief encounter with the WP? If you believe Xena could lug that > boiling pot up the ladder and defeat soldiers swarming all over her, why > wouldn't it naturally follow that they'd retreat any way, for whatever > reason, they could? > > -- Ife However, I'll believe that Xena could fight / scare them out of the hut, but once outside, any direction led away from Xena, and heading for Athens was as good in that regard as heading back the way they came. Plus it got them to their objective. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:42:51 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Thursday 17 April 2003 11:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/16/03 4:04:13 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << WHY DIDN'T CALLISTO JUST LET GO OF > THE ROPE???>> > > LOL! Yes, and the worst part is that I didn't roll on the floor laughing, > as both actresses made that ridiculous scene look probable. One minute > Callisto's happily plunging to her death. The next, she's got this look of > chagrin 'cause she's clinging to the rope keeping her from plunging. Maybe > she was afraid Gabs would catch her anyway? This is Season 1 Gabs we're talking about.... I think Gabs would have suffered multiple fractures in the attempt ;) But that - hanging onto the rope - really did disconcert me. > >In LDITE (which is an ep I like very much) - howcome Xena and > > Gabs survived the wagon going over the cliff with no injuries? > > If you watch in slo-mo, you see Xena pushing off from the mountain, as the > wagon plunges over. And, no, I do not need to hear the engineering reasons > for why that still might not be enough. She'd still land with the same force, *but* the further she was from the wagon at the moment of impact, the safer she would be from having it landing on her. > If she can leap buildings, ships, > trees, etc. in a single bound, than you'll just have to accept she can do > it with mountains. And Gabby? > < ammunition tent (OK, I'll accept that she could magically do that) - (a), > howcome Gabs and Wonder Boy could breathe? and (b), why did the > gunpowder trail go out? Since gunpowder contains its own oxygen, that's > why it's an explosive. >> > > Oh, yes., that was a TATMLM moment if there ever was one. I especially > liked how Xena became clairvoyent enough not only to know Gabs was in > trouble, but to see exactly what needed to be done. That was in a league > all its own, with virtually no real explanation (unless you count "Lao Ma > is in the wind") whatsoever. Oh, and the psychic bomb-repelling shield and > ability to freeze rabbits/soldiers? Now that I could accept, as 'magic'. Besides, it looked rreally cool ;) But so far as the fuse went, why didn't Xena just magically make it go out? Why do it the round-the-houses way by magically sucking all the air out of the tent which, as I've said, wouldn't have worked anyway? Never mind, TATMLM ;) > Hmmm, as I think of it, Xena got some > interesting powers during her pregnancy, most of which we never saw before > and wouldn't see again. Never underestimate female hormones, cr. As > you've said on numerous occasions, they defy logic. I haven't! Have I? > < a TATMLM moment from a simple YAXI, though. > > > Yes. I think YAXI has been applied much too broadly. I feel they fall > into at least four major categories -- 1. obvious mistakes (e.g., new > chakram appearing in flashback where old chakram should've been used); Yes, that was the one that occurred to me. And the transmuted Dagger of Helios in Seeds of Faith. > 2. > situations the crew couldn't necessarily anticipate or control (e.g., rain > falling, but we're not supposed to notice and the characters don't get > wet, as in the beginning of "Locked Up"); > 3. puzzling occurences involving characters other than Xena; Such as? > and 4. what we're dubbing TATMLM moments -- > incredible heroics that involve Xena. > > To me, the fourth category is the one I don't think is a true YAXI. No > matter how incredible, we're expected to accept TATMLM moments as credible > and intentional precisely because it's Xena doing them. The arguments are > usually about "whether/when/how was it ever established that she could do > such a thing?" I'm not counting arguments that it couldn't have happened > at all, because otherwise we would have to argue whether Xena herself could > exist at all, which I submit is beyond the scope of TATMLM. > > -- Ife I agree with you, those aren't really YAXIs. And I discount those 'when was it established...' arguments, there has to be a first time for everything. I also completely discount almost all the alleged YAXIs based on 'Xena [/Gabby / Hope / Eve] would never do that!' Who says? What that usually means is 'According to my idea of what Xena [/Gabby etc] 's character ought to be like, I don't think she should do that'. People do surprising things at times, particularly under stress. And I agree, Xena was 'impossible' and much of what she did was impossible... we just accept those things for the sake of the show. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:22:37 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Thursday 17 April 2003 11:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/16/03 4:03:20 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << Well, of course Marga's tribe was the same as Varia's, the debate is > whether > it's the same tribe as Melosa/Ephiny's. > > And if we ain't splittin' hairs about stuff like that, why would we be on > the > list? ;) > > cr > > > It's not the hair-splitting I'm complaining about. It's the timing. It's > about Cande indulging in hair-splitting while simultaneously (and > pitifully) claiming she's indisposed to write a new review. If she has 15 > minutes to hair-split, she has 15 minutes to work on the review. The rest > of us can hair-split all we want, as we may have nothing better to do. > Cande does. Unfortunately, she seems impervious to guilt or imperious > demands. Maybe there's a carrot we could use, since the stick isn't > working? > > -- Ife Well your stick certainly isn't! OK, I'll write a review. Umm, being dead lazy, which ep shall I do? Oh, I know, 'The Titans'. OK, here goes, cr's Review of 'The Titans' [snore] The End. Umm, seriously, there are just a few eps that make me think 'was that a Xena ep? I can hardly remember it'. In fact The Titans seems to be one of those eps that almost nobody has any very strong feelings about. There are eps I actively dislike, but then there are a few eps (like Titans) that neither irritate me, nor do they contain any 'good' moments. Personally, I think The Titans and Solstice Carol probably head my list of snoreworthy eps, followed by The Path Not Taken. Prometheus isn't on my 'snoreworthy' list, I quite liked the Green Egg Men and the huge bird; and MWF isn't on my 'snoreworthy' list either, I actually dislike much of that ep (but I do like the Aphrodite-Discord feud). Anyone else got any nominations for 'eps so ordinary they've faded out' ? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:55:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] [OT] Not Here I'll be away for Easter. I'll try and catch up with any messages after I get back. have a happy easter everybody. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:23:53 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews << Personally, I think The Titans and Solstice Carol probably head my list of snoreworthy eps, followed by The Path Not Taken. >> Prometheus isn't on my 'snoreworthy' list, I quite liked the Green Egg Men and the huge bird;>> OK, CR you rattled my cage here!! Prometheus wouldn't make my snoreworthy list (see later), but the green egg men go into a whole another category - the I-can't-believe-they-did-that embarrassingly awful list. Suspend disbelief is one thing, but those Green egg men just are way too unbelievable. Why green? Why polystyrene eggs? >>Anyone else got any nominations for 'eps so ordinary they've faded out' ?>> Key to the Kingdom Takes one to know one Giant killer Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:23:58 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' cr@orcon.net.nz writes: <> >>Yes. I think YAXI has been applied much too broadly. I feel they fall into at least four major categories -- 1. obvious mistakes (e.g., new chakram appearing in flashback where old chakram should've been used); 2. situations the crew couldn't necessarily anticipate or control (e.g., rain falling, but we're not supposed to notice and the characters don't get wet, as in the beginning of "Locked Up"); 3. puzzling occurences involving characters other than Xena; and 4. what we're dubbing TATMLM moments -- incredible heroics that involve Xena. >> I like this logic, but I would add a different classification. YAXIs are when the show is internally inconsistent, with no reference to the outside or real world. That way the new chakram where the old one should have been used is a genuine YAXI. Nothing to do with anything that goes on off screen, treating the screened episodes as "all completely true" the chakram switch is inconsistent. So it is a real YAXI. Incredible events (#4) like turning rabbits into stones and leaping off cliffs just need us to stop thinking about the real world - these suspend disbelief moments are the TATMLM moments. Events like rain and no-one getting wet (#2) are when the real world does intrude and we are not supposed to notice. Happens in Sin Trade too BTW. This includes things like the gas canister in Girls JWTHF. These are Things We Are Not Supposed To Notice TWANSTN, an entirely new category. #3 puzzling occurrences - these are the lifeblood of lists, because it is what we can all discuss :-) Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:45:51 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 05:42:37 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: [chakram-refugees] *** NOSTALGIA *** [Jul'97] XENA: Sex and the PG-rated show ... That may be changing, however, a frequent cross-over guest-star, says that dynamic is being reworked for world-wide syndication. What titillates in the U.S. may only repel in other countries. As both series shoot their seasons in New Zealand, Sorbo predicts "Xena" will be playing up male love interests for the two women. (A November sweeps episode of "Hercules" will transport the half-god to a parallel universe where Xena serves as the sex toy of his evil counterpart.) .... Boy did Sorbo get this wrong! I somehow have gotten the impression over the years that Sorbo expected Xena to be a frequent guest character on his show and to exist primarily as a boost for his ratings. I think it rankled him a lot that Xena developed a very loyal cult following and the character became a cultural icon. Now this a personal prejudice but of all the Xena and Herc stars I have seen he is the only one I didn't like. I just find the guy just a bit full of himself like Shatner but without the goofy charm. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:09:35 -0500 From: "Mark B." Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' I can't resist..... <> > Unbeatable, amazingly strong > (remember the scene in The Furies when Xena beat Ares?), courage that > was unstoppable, and amazingly beyond-human technical skills, in her > case sword and the mystical chakram that could unerringly bounce off > twenty surfaces in succession, and with pinpoint accuracy and > goddess-like timing, get to the place it needed to go and to exactly > what she wanted it to do. Pre-Mycenian GPS accuracy,huh? > We were raised on these images, in different ways in different cultures. > This is the superhero. > I'm getting in a little late on this thread, but I have to jump in on the side of 'That was a great line'! True, you have to do a little suspension of belief -- not that we've ever had to do that before, right?! Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. 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