From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, April 16 2003 Volume 03 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr ] Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' [cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Wednesday 16 April 2003 08:18, Sojourner wrote: > > [cr said:] > > > One of those occasions when the director should have > > > listened to the star, IMO. > > > > [meredith said:] > >I couldn't disagree with you more. It's the perfect > >capper to the most over-the-top battle up to that > >point in the series. Any less outrageous line would > >have been anticlimactic. (And really, IMO the only > >thing they ever came up with afterwards that went even > >further over the top was that silly dam Xena built in > >an afternoon in "The Abyss".) > > > >Meredith > > Gadzooks! I'm with you on this one Meredith. It's an episode which builds > and builds through levels of physical and emotional intensity, climaxing in > the one of the best fight sequences in all 6 series - with the boing boing > bit just the OTT for me - and the moment of "f*** you buddy" comes with > Xena and that line. I reckon it was the "and your mother!" kind of line. > > Afterwards is the post-climax cuddling and wind-down, with the obligatory > funny line from the ex-dying now-sleepy Gabby. > > Sojourner Well we know *you're* not my soulmate then, don't we? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:27:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Wednesday 16 April 2003 11:05, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/15/03 1:56:14 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << Ouch! I'm sorry to hear that. Hope they can recover most of your > files. > > If you've lost anything like episode transcripts I can help replace 'em > (though I think Whoosh still have them all up). I certainly have the > article you wrote on 'Amazon High'. > > > Bwahahahaha! I already volunteered you as Cande's aide de camp, not > realizing you'd actually volunteer yourself. What a guy! Oh yeah, I did notice a passing reference to me somewhere in a post. Nothing escapes me! Nothing! ;) > < rainforest. So I tend to think that Marga's tribe (and after her > Varia's) was the same one. >> > > Grrrr. Must you give *everything* a thoughtful response? I'm trying to > encourage Cande to do her reviews, not get all hung up in trees! Do you > two really care whether the tribe TPTB made up for Marga was the same as > the one they made up for Varia? D'uh, what am I saying. Of course you do. > Where's my buzz saw? > > -- Ife Well, of course Marga's tribe was the same as Varia's, the debate is whether it's the same tribe as Melosa/Ephiny's. And if we ain't splittin' hairs about stuff like that, why would we be on the list? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:32:40 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews On Wednesday 16 April 2003 01:17, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > -------Original Message------- > From: cr > > "Umm. But by the time of 'Endgame', that very same tribe wasn't in a > rainforest. So I tend to think that Marga's tribe (and after her > Varia's) > was the same one." > > Now we can have an esoteric discussion about what happened to the rain > forest (other than TPTB just forgot about all those trees). Perhaps that > is what happened to the Amazons. There was a ecological disaster and the > Amazons lost the habitate they were most comfortable in and thus their > decline. Well, I just think that the forest only occupied part of the Amazons' territory. > Anyway back to Amazon breading habits. I know you don't read fan fiction > but there is a series written by Leonard Fox called Young Ephiny. It's a > great series in which he constructs an Amazon culture and history around > the premisses prsented in H&H and The Quest. Anyway he had the Amazons go > out and find a guy and basically breed. OK, just like Herc & The Amazon Women. > It was also pretty much expected > the Amazon would produce at least one child. The Amazons because of this > practice eventually became very fertile (natural selection at work here) > and got pregnant quite easily. The political problem this resented was > that Melosa was unable to have children thus this resulted in a succession > crises. Valasca was adopted because her mother was Melosa's friend but > this but her in conflict with Terris, Melosa's heir. Valasca proved > troublesome and eventually left the tribe. This sets up the problems in > both H&H and The Quest. I recommend the stories. Leonard is a fine > writter and one of the few men who write Xena fan fiction. > > CherylA I don't read fanfic, actually. This is party due to an odd prejudice of mine, that that if the TV series was great, 'the book' (or fanfic) is very unlikely to impress me the same way. How can any writer catch the 'feel' that LL and Hudson and others bring to the screen? It works the other way too, I usually find if a book really impresses me, 'the movie' is a disappointment. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:52:25 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Wednesday 16 April 2003 01:42, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > Wow, this is spurring me out of lurkerdom, you know it > must be good! > > --- cr wrote: > > - but anyway, they screened that fight in One > > Against an Army and that line I > > always thought was so unconvincing - "Go home, there > > are thousands more like > > me". Nothing wrong with Lucy's delivery of the > > line, but in the > > circumstances - why would anybody believe it? > > That's one of my top three all-time favorite lines in > the series. It's just *so* perfect in the situation. > > I mean, come on. You've just watched a fight in which > one woman in a barn defeated an entire army of Persian > invaders. Why on earth would you go back and pick up > your disbelief where you suspended it when you sat > down to watch an episode of X:WP, just to worry about > the ramifications of the punch line?! OK. If I accept that Xena defeated the bunch in the barn - having retreated out the door, why didn't they just ride off in the general direction of Greece? In fact, why did they bother with the barn at all, why didn't they just ignore it and ride past it? Suspension of disbelief is a funny thing - it works for some things better than others. (And which things it works for, and which it doesn't, is a very personal selection). But overall, for an ep to be 'believable', *most* of the things in it have to make sense. We can suspend disbelief about a few things but not them all. I can suspend disbelief enough that Xena could defeat the guys in the barn - but *not* enough to believe that they were so overawed that all common sense left them and they didn't do the obvious after they left. > > One of those occasions when the director should have > > listened to the star, IMO. > > I couldn't disagree with you more. It's the perfect > capper to the most over-the-top battle up to that > point in the series. Any less outrageous line would > have been anticlimactic. (And really, IMO the only > thing they ever came up with afterwards that went even > further over the top was that silly dam Xena built in > an afternoon in "The Abyss".) > > Meredith > meth@smoe.org Hmmm. I could swallow that dam without *too* much trouble. Maybe because they never showed a clear shot of its full size on screen. Not that I like The Abyss much. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:58:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Wednesday 16 April 2003 04:25, Richan@aol.com wrote: > In the light of the events in Iraq I am reminded of the the US Army's new > slogan: > "An army of one." A couple of the below http links cite the followng: > > Secretary of the Army Louis Caldera announced the new Army slogan that > underscores the importance of individuals in a unified effort and unveiled > a new Army logo - a white star superimposed overa yellow star - during a > Department of Defense press briefingat the Pentagon Jan. 10. "I am > tremendously inspired by this new campaign and feel as if we are conveying > a more accurate view of the men and women who comprise our Army," Caldera > said. "It speaks to the individual strengths of each soldier and their part > within the overall Army force." > > I believe the Persian army confronted by Xena was mercenary in nature and > not necessarily as inspired as Xena was to protect her homeland. > Errrm, cautiously leaving Dubya's re-election campaign aside, and concentrating on the Persian army - I don't think the degree of enthusiasm is sufficient explanation. It could explain _part_ of the fight - why Xena was able to defeat the bunch inside the hut, or why they gave up so quickly. It doesn't explain why, having retreated from the hut, they didn't just carry on towards Greece and (if they were mercenaries) the big payoff. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 21:05:24 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' On Wednesday 16 April 2003 11:04, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/15/03 8:44:11 AM Central Daylight Time, > meredith_tarr@yahoo.com writes: > > << It's the perfect > capper to the most over-the-top battle up to that > point in the series. Any less outrageous line would > have been anticlimactic. (And really, IMO the only > thing they ever came up with afterwards that went even > further over the top was that silly dam Xena built in > an afternoon in "The Abyss".) >> > > LOL! Yes! Accompanied by that "Magnificent 7" type music, which they > repeated when she built that silly catapault thingy in "Prey," which she > used to try to launch the injured Varia into safety. Now *that* was a definite TATMLM moment! First, how d'you pull a pine tree down like that? Much too stiff, not flexible enough. It'd break. Second, it would probably dismember Varia with the launching acceleration. Third, for any decent range, Varia would be hitting the ground at 100 mph plus. Fourth, Morloch's catapult - those things were very slow and difficult to aim, very slow to launch, no way could they have done the Patriot-missile thing with Varia. Fifth, if Varia heading approximately horizontally encounters a net heading approximately horizontally at right angles, their resultant trajectory will be approximately horizontal at some angle between their two directions, they will *not* stop in midair and fall vertically to the ground. > One of my other > favorite "There Are Thousands" (which I will now refer to as TATMLM) > moments is way back in "Callisto," when Xena's balancing herself on a > suspended ladder, leaning forward, and manages not only to catch but to > dangle her nemesis in the air with one hand by a piece of string. That's > when I figured Callisto was a lot skinnier than I thought, or Xena a lot > stronger. Oh yes, that entire ladder fight. Nicely picked. If one is on a horizontal balanced ladder, and one end starts to go down, it will keep on going down, it won't stop after it's gone down a few feet. And of course, as you say, howcome Xena can catch Callisto - (a), superhuman strength required (well, OK, that's allowable for Xena) - (b), the balance is impossible. And an even bigger one - WHY DIDN'T CALLISTO JUST LET GO OF THE ROPE??? > Any other TATMLM moments that stand out for others? > > -- Ife Umm, yep. In LDITE (which is an ep I like very much) - howcome Xena and Gabs survived the wagon going over the cliff with no injuries? And, umm, Back in the Bottle, when Xena sucked all the air out of the ammunition tent (OK, I'll accept that she could magically do that) - (a), howcome Gabs and Wonder Boy could breathe? and (b), why did the gunpowder trail go out? Since gunpowder contains its own oxygen, that's why it's an explosive. Ooh this is fun. I think we'll have to find some way to differentiate a TATMLM moment from a simple YAXI, though. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 05:42:37 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: [chakram-refugees] *** NOSTALGIA *** [Jul'97] XENA: Sex and the PG-rated show I've been digging thru my archived articles, and thought I'd post one now and again as I come across something interesting. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Copyright 1997 Boston Herald Inc. The Boston Herald July 27, 1997 Sunday ALL EDITIONS Sex and the PG-rated show; Could love be the downfall of 'Xena,' 'Hercules' and 'Robin Hood?' Just ask Superman BY: By Mark A. Perigard The heroic action-adventure shows like "Lois & Clark," "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys," "Xena: Warrior PRincess" and "The New Adventures of Robin Hood" must balance an odd mix. To keep the kiddies, they must constantly stretch their fantastic premises, outlandish villains, cartoon violence and cheesy effects; to keep the adults watching, they feature buff bods and enough zinging sexual innuendos to befuddle air traffic control. "It's not just eye candy," argued "Hercules" star Kevin Sorbo. "Don't call it 'Baywatch B.C."' This season "Xena" slashed its way to the top of the hour-long syndicated ratings heap, toppling even "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine." Sorbo believes "Xena" overtook his show only because it was able to build on a particular female demographic -- namely lesbians. Those who believe that Xena (Lucy Lawless) and her sidekick, Gabrielle (Renee O'Connor), are more than friends got plenty of ammunition last season, including an episode that featured Xena's spirit trapped in guest star Bruce Campbell's ("The Adventures of Brisco County Jr.") body and giving Gaby one deep full-mouth kiss. Co-executive producer Sam Raimi ("Evil Dead," "Army of Darkness") is aware the show owes its following to the frisson between the two women. "Why shouldn't people be able to see anything they want?" Raimi asked. "There's no limit to the fantasy we are portraying. We're open to all interpretations and we support them." That may be changing, however, a frequent cross-over guest-star, says that dynamic is being reworked for world-wide syndication. What titillates in the U.S. may only repel in other countries. As both series shoot their seasons in New Zealand, Sorbo predicts "Xena" will be playing up male love interests for the two women. (A November sweeps episode of "Hercules" will transport the half-god to a parallel universe where Xena serves as the sex toy of his evil counterpart.) The secret of teh successful shows, according to Raimi and Weintraub, is to tease audiences and then deny them. Give them some fat-free bods, slap some clever banter in their mouths and then let viewers go to work -- with their own imaginations. "We're not consummating it, ever. Well, maybe on out last show," Weintraub said, then laughing. "We haven't consummated the relationship between Tuck and Little John either." - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:43:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] [AdrienneWilkinsonFanClubNews] Adrienne on TV this week/ Fan club updates (fwd) Some Adrienne news! :) -Sarah- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:37:38 -0000 From: christin997 Reply-To: AdrienneWilkinsonFanClubNews-owner@yahoogroups.com To: AdrienneWilkinsonFanClubNews@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AdrienneWilkinsonFanClubNews] Adrienne on TV this week/ Fan club updates - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get a FREE REFINANCE QUOTE - click here! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2CXtTB/ca0FAA/i5gGAA/FsHolB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Hello everyone- Just to update you on fan club news... A reminder to all who have not stopped by the message board recently that Adrienne will appear in a small role on the soap opera "Days of Our Lives" this week. Look for her as Linda Browning, assistant to Victor Kiriakis (John Aniston), on Friday April 18. Also, check out our latest NEWSLETTER at the website. The spring edition is packed with articles and interviews as well as features written by Adrienne herself. Hear about Adrienne's experiences on the set of 'Angel' or read reports about the Pasadena Xena convention and the exclusive Fan Club brunch with Adrienne. Want a limited edition Adrienne Wilkinson T Shirt? Check out the newsletter to find out how to get one. Looking for a great book to read, a fantastic movie to see, or a hot new theatre production to attend? Read the newsletter reviews and see what Adrienne's been recommending! Thanks to everyone for your continued support of the fan club and of Adrienne. Stay tuned here and at www.adriennewilkinson.com for all the latest news... The OAWFC Staff To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: AdrienneWilkinsonFanClubNews-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:07:36 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' At 19:03 16/04/2003 +1200, cr wrote: >On Wednesday 16 April 2003 08:18, Sojourner wrote: > > > > > [cr said:] > > > > One of those occasions when the director should have > > > > listened to the star, IMO. > > > > > > [meredith said:] > > >I couldn't disagree with you more. It's the perfect > > >capper to the most over-the-top battle up to that > > >point in the series. Any less outrageous line would > > >have been anticlimactic. (And really, IMO the only > > >thing they ever came up with afterwards that went even > > >further over the top was that silly dam Xena built in > > >an afternoon in "The Abyss".) > > > > > >Meredith > > > > Gadzooks! I'm with you on this one Meredith. It's an episode which builds > > and builds through levels of physical and emotional intensity, climaxing in > > the one of the best fight sequences in all 6 series - with the boing boing > > bit just the OTT for me - and the moment of "f*** you buddy" comes with > > Xena and that line. I reckon it was the "and your mother!" kind of line. > > > > Afterwards is the post-climax cuddling and wind-down, with the obligatory > > funny line from the ex-dying now-sleepy Gabby. > > > > Sojourner > >Well we know *you're* not my soulmate then, don't we? > >cr I know! It's weird, eh? But that's what I like about this community - only one person I have met in person on on-line has got as near as 90% to "my take" on XWP and even then the arguments when we disagree have been doozies. And that person is not my partner - she won't even watch FIN a second time. THAT was a doozy of a "debate" too. But, no matter how we disagree, it's the fun of the talk that continues. Even if you are an old curmedgeon who has no idea about .... gee .... anything....really ..... Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:08:59 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena reviews Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:55:00 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Just how bad do you feel? Bad enough to use pencil and paper, perhaps snail mail the review to cr for transcription and emailing? Bad enough to borrow a computer while yours is in the hospital? I'm not unsympathetic to your plight, just trying to gauge whether the "guilt card" will spur you into searching for alternatives to soothe those of us chickies who must suffer because of your motherly neglect." MY GOD YOUR MY MOTHER PLAYING THE GUILT CARD! It actually takes me a day to do the reviews and I work on them at home on and at work when on break if I can. It takes a while since writting is difficult me (sniff - poor pitiful me). So I now have cram my short response in during my 15 minute break. "TREES"?!!! Um, this isn't quite the substitute I had in mind. Hey! Now that I think of it, if you managed to send out that little tidbit, how come you can't manage a *real* review? Huh? Huh?" Hey you have something against trees. I'll sic the Arbor Society on you. Actually I'm using the trees the gracefully slide into a plug for L. Foxes Young Ephiny series. I thing the guys who write fan fiction need a little publicity. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:17:44 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: Re: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews - -------Original Message------- From: cr "I don't read fanfic, actually. This is party due to an odd prejudice of mine, that that if the TV series was great, 'the book' (or fanfic) is very unlikely to impress me the same way. How can any writer catch the 'feel' that LL and Hudson and others bring to the screen? It works the other way too, I usually find if a book really impresses me, 'the movie' is a disappointment. " Actually I agree with you to some extent. I don't think the commercial books ever have captured the feel of the series. I think fan fic has done a much better job although you may have to wade through some bad stories to get there. I do agree about books turned into movies. If I have read the book and liked it I will seldom see the movie. I will however read the book if I like the movie and usually find the book better. Anyway I used the post to plug L. Fox's story simply because I thought they were very good. Also there are so few guys writting I just like to get their names out there. They have written some terrific stories and their point of view is just a bit different than the women who write. CherylA CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:25:04 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #103 - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr That's one of my top three all-time favorite lines in the series. It's just *so* perfect in the situation. I mean, come on. You've just watched a fight in which one woman in a barn defeated an entire army of Persian invaders....It's the perfect capper to the most over-the-top battle up to that point in the series. Any less outrageous line would have been anticlimactic. (And really, IMO the only thing they ever came up with afterwards that went even further over the top was that silly dam Xena built in an afternoon in "The Abyss".) Yes I have to agree this is a great line. It's actually a perfect line. The Persians don't know what to expect from the Greeeks so the first Greek they meet is some lone woman in a barn who beats the crap out of them. Then she says that she isn't special there are thousands just like her waiting for them. If I were the Persian army I'd be really worried if every Greek woman could fight like this and if the women are like this what would the men be like. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:53:07 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Male Bards (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews) cande@sunlink.net wrote: > Anyway I used the post to plug L. Fox's story simply because > I thought they were very good. Also there are so few guys > writting I just like to get their names out there. Can anyone think of some other male bards? Off the top of my head the names Darkone, Kamouraskan, XeniteSupreme/Xenamaster, and Glaurung come to mind. - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:21:09 -0700 From: "Kym Taborn" Subject: Re: Male Bards (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews) From: "Cousin Liz" > cande@sunlink.net wrote: > > > Anyway I used the post to plug L. Fox's story simply because > > I thought they were very good. Also there are so few guys > > writting I just like to get their names out there. > > Can anyone think of some other male bards? Off the top of my > head the names Darkone, Kamouraskan, XeniteSupreme/Xenamaster, > and Glaurung come to mind. Rooks ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:03:05 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' Ife said, "Any other TATMLM (There Are Thousands More Like Me) moments that stand out for others?" Welllllllll, yessss... There's the Valkyries, Odin's personally hand-picked warriors, whom (being formal here) Xena managed to kick butt TWICE, or was it three or four times, in The Ring, Return of the Valkyries, and later on in You Are There. In the latter, she even, literally, kicked Odin's butt, the king of the Norse gods. That's pretty powerful. It's why, understanding the way mythology works by having read it for years since a child, and watched it for years on TV and movies (i.e., Superman), I saw that "TPTB" had created a character of myth and legend who couldn't be beaten except rarely (so could Superman, by kryptonite). That was the point. That's how they do it: they make the hero larger than life, so to speak. Unbeatable, amazingly strong (remember the scene in The Furies when Xena beat Ares?), courage that was unstoppable, and amazingly beyond-human technical skills, in her case sword and the mystical chakram that could unerringly bounce off twenty surfaces in succession, and with pinpoint accuracy and goddess-like timing, get to the place it needed to go and to exactly what she wanted it to do. That's what they did with Xena, thank goddess. They made a woman superhero. One that couldn't be stopped, had amazing, nearly unconquerable powers, even by the gods. Yet was mortal. Had vulnerabilities. So do most superheroes I know of. When you hear or read it often enough, you begin to believe it...."Superman...faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locamotive, leaps tall buldings with a single bound. It's a bird, it's a plane, it's SUPERMAN"... We were raised on these images, in different ways in different cultures. This is the superhero. Though sometimes I questioned it (with Xena), perhaps because she WAS a woman, I began to realize she was the woman hero I had been waiting my whole life for. Go see the Lord of the Rings. If you haven't, they do the same thing not just to the super-hero good-"guys", but to the Orcs as well, the bad guys, where it got to the point where i realized I COULD believe that the Orcs had the power to just fly through the air if they wanted to, and get to the river in no time to stop the good-"guys." That belief was not just verbally created to convince us, but visually as well. It's what is done in advertising...I'm forgetting the exact word right now, but it's about swaying people's feelings and influencing them to believe a certain way about something. We may want to decide there is a reason to believe this sometimes, in this case, with Xena. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:18:03 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena reviews In a message dated 4/16/03 9:09:28 AM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << MY GOD YOUR MY MOTHER PLAYING THE GUILT CARD!>> Um, no, I'm *my* mother playing the guilt card. Same thing, I guess. << It actually takes me a day to do the reviews and I work on them at home on and at work when on break if I can. It takes a while since writting is difficult me (sniff - poor pitiful me). So I now have cram my short response in during my 15 minute break.>> "A day" equals "a while" in your time scheme? You call that "difficult" and "poor pitiful me"? Perhaps if you wouldn't splurge your 15 minutes plugging trees and fanfic? -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:18:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/16/03 6:08:26 AM Central Daylight Time, sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: << Even if you are an old curmedgeon who has no idea about .... gee .... anything....really ..... >> Hey! Watch it! Who you callin' an old .... Oh. You meant cr. Okay. Carry on. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:18:09 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena reviews In a message dated 4/16/03 4:03:20 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << Well, of course Marga's tribe was the same as Varia's, the debate is whether it's the same tribe as Melosa/Ephiny's. And if we ain't splittin' hairs about stuff like that, why would we be on the list? ;) cr >> It's not the hair-splitting I'm complaining about. It's the timing. It's about Cande indulging in hair-splitting while simultaneously (and pitifully) claiming she's indisposed to write a new review. If she has 15 minutes to hair-split, she has 15 minutes to work on the review. The rest of us can hair-split all we want, as we may have nothing better to do. Cande does. Unfortunately, she seems impervious to guilt or imperious demands. Maybe there's a carrot we could use, since the stick isn't working? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:18:08 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/16/03 4:03:23 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << But overall, for an ep to be 'believable', *most* of the things in it have to make sense. We can suspend disbelief about a few things but not them all. I can suspend disbelief enough that Xena could defeat the guys in the barn - but *not* enough to believe that they were so overawed that all common sense left them and they didn't do the obvious after they left. >> How do you distinguish the former disbelief from the latter? How is the latter more unbelievable than other times large groups of bad guys ran off after a brief encounter with the WP? If you believe Xena could lug that boiling pot up the ladder and defeat soldiers swarming all over her, why wouldn't it naturally follow that they'd retreat any way, for whatever reason, they could? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:18:06 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 'There are thousands more like me' In a message dated 4/16/03 4:04:13 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << WHY DIDN'T CALLISTO JUST LET GO OF THE ROPE???>> LOL! Yes, and the worst part is that I didn't roll on the floor laughing, as both actresses made that ridiculous scene look probable. One minute Callisto's happily plunging to her death. The next, she's got this look of chagrin 'cause she's clinging to the rope keeping her from plunging. Maybe she was afraid Gabs would catch her anyway? >In LDITE (which is an ep I like very much) - howcome Xena and Gabs survived the wagon going over the cliff with no injuries? If you watch in slo-mo, you see Xena pushing off from the mountain, as the wagon plunges over. And, no, I do not need to hear the engineering reasons for why that still might not be enough. If she can leap buildings, ships, trees, etc. in a single bound, than you'll just have to accept she can do it with mountains. <> Oh, yes., that was a TATMLM moment if there ever was one. I especially liked how Xena became clairvoyent enough not only to know Gabs was in trouble, but to see exactly what needed to be done. That was in a league all its own, with virtually no real explanation (unless you count "Lao Ma is in the wind") whatsoever. Oh, and the psychic bomb-repelling shield and ability to freeze rabbits/soldiers? Hmmm, as I think of it, Xena got some interesting powers during her pregnancy, most of which we never saw before and wouldn't see again. Never underestimate female hormones, cr. As you've said on numerous occasions, they defy logic. <> Yes. I think YAXI has been applied much too broadly. I feel they fall into at least four major categories -- 1. obvious mistakes (e.g., new chakram appearing in flashback where old chakram should've been used); 2. situations the crew couldn't necessarily anticipate or control (e.g., rain falling, but we're not supposed to notice and the characters don't get wet, as in the beginning of "Locked Up"); 3. puzzling occurences involving characters other than Xena; and 4. what we're dubbing TATMLM moments -- incredible heroics that involve Xena. To me, the fourth category is the one I don't think is a true YAXI. No matter how incredible, we're expected to accept TATMLM moments as credible and intentional precisely because it's Xena doing them. The arguments are usually about "whether/when/how was it ever established that she could do such a thing?" I'm not counting arguments that it couldn't have happened at all, because otherwise we would have to argue whether Xena herself could exist at all, which I submit is beyond the scope of TATMLM. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #104 **************************************