From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #99 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, April 11 2003 Volume 03 : Number 099 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Crossover in Andromeda [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:13:40 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Crossover in Andromeda As fans we often look for simularities. Seen that alot with star trek groups that found simularities in every show that cast members went on to do. It is fun to tie in things even if it isn't an actual crossover......................................... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:32:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] On Thursday 10 April 2003 13:23, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > AFTER SEEING THE SAME TITLE SEVERAL TIMES, THOUGHT I'D FANCY IT UP A BIT. > > cr, quoting several people indicated: > >>>>There's a line from Aphrodite that always sounded a little wrong to > >>>> me,and I've just figured out why. I think it's due to a subtle but > >>>> definite difference between English and American English. "My powers > >>>> are tied to Olympus, and there is no way for me to get back there. > >>>> Xena made sure of that!"..... > >>>> > >>>>In English English, that means 'ensured' i.e. Xena deliberately > >>>> ensured that Aphrodite couldn't get back to Olympus. .... However, I > >>>> *think* that in American English it means 'confirmed' i.e. > > Actually, your definitiion...english english...is actually how i > interpreted that sentence, and i speak american english. > . > ...It's as though Aphrodite is saying..... > > "My powers are tied to Olympus, and there is no way [IN H*LL] for me to get > back there" > > Lilli Hmmm... just so we're on the same wavelength, my 'English English' interpretation of 'Xena made sure of that' is 'Xena actively did things to make it impossible for me to get back there'. But as I said, I don't think that interpretation is really consistent with the events of the series. I prefer the interpretation of 'Xena checked it out and couldn't find a way for me to get back there'. Which is (IMO) kinder to Xena, Aphrodite and more consistent with the story. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:54:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There On Thursday 10 April 2003 11:11, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > > Yes, I guess so. Even though I've never seen the original 'You Are > > There' > > series or any other series based on that premise, I guess the scenario of > > the reporter intruding into events is familiar enough that it didn't set > > off my YAXI-sensing circuits. > > > > And, as I implied, I can overlook quite a lot of logical inconsistencies > > if I like the episode. > > Well I'm not old enough to have seen the original You Are There but PBS ran > a special one time that used a similar concept. I believe it was orginally > a BBC program. It had modern day journalists at the Battle of Culloden. > It impressed me as a teen and so when Nigel popped up on Xena I was familar > with the concept. > > CherylA > Hmm, I do remember many years back a docu-drama called 'Culloden', probably made by the Beeb, that was really moving. It showed, IIRC, the desperation and despair of the losing side only too well. I don't recall a reporter there but that may have slipped my memory. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:34:16 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There The original tv show You are there (first aired 1953) black and white Walter Cronkite hosted the reenactments of historical events. Shows included "The Landing of the Hindenburg", "The Salem Witchcraft Trials", "The Gettysburg Address", "The Fall of Troy", "The Scuttling of the Graf Spee", and "Napoleon at waterloo". Having seen a few episodes of "you are there" it was even more enjoyable for me to see the xena episode since michael hurst was a comedic version of walter cronkite. In the original show the historical people never paid any attention to cameras or electronics either. And did interviews as if it was normal. Great spoof of the series. Excellent. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:41:02 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 10 April 2003 03:52, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > -------Original Message------- > From: cr > > > "Is a bit odd... how did they get African Amazons, seeing as how all > Africa > south of the Mediterranean coastal strip (or Egypt) was Terra Incognita at > the time?" > > > Don't know but simply because conventional histories of the tome doesn't > mention Subsahara Africa doesn't mean the Amazons didn't know about. This > of course could be a reference to the the Dahomy Amazons who were written > about in the 19th century. 19th cent. is a bit late in the piece... still, that was only a minor nitpick. Maybe they were Ethiopian Amazons. > "The Romans made a terrible mistake in sending Evie as a peace envoy, come > to that. ;)" > > Well she probably never told the Romans she was banished from the Amazon > lands. It would be the kind of thing Eve would leave out in her zeal as > the prophet of love and peace. Yes, probably. Pity Evie's talents didn't include a certain amount of discretion. Like, knowing when it was a good time to be suddenly elsewhere. ;) > "Now that I did *not* like. All the way from 'Destiny' to 'Anthony & > Cleo' > I firmly believed the only good Roman was a dead Roman, but these were > prisoners. I'm not sure that even Evil Xena killed prisoners for no > purpose." > > Well she did kill them as lesson for others i.e. Past Imperfect. Yeah, but even in PI there was some point to it, even if a malicious one, Xena wanted to terrorise the city. Whereas killing the Roman prisoners was pointless and in fact more likely to provoke massive Roman retribution. > But it > was always represented as a dispicable act and one Xena was ashamed of. > Varia get away with this crime which is unjustified simply by everyone > excusing it as "Ares made her do it." When did they say that? I don't recall it in the script or is this a bit of fan fic? > The fact he didn't do any such thing > is skipped over. It seems Xena and Eve suffer for their crimes but Varia > is forgiven with no real guilt on her part. Yes, interesting. I would be less tolerant. Of course, what Varia wasn't forgiven (by the fans) was trying to kill Gabby. Even though she thought she was doing the right thing. Odd, since everyone seemed to forgive Callisto's occasional attempts at Gabicide, even though they were entirely motivated by malice. > "Generally, I think, empires or organisations like the Amazons only > decline > for one of two reasons - either they are destroyed everywhere at once - > and > Livia only destroyed *one* branch of the Amazons - or for some other > sociological reason they become unpopular or uneconomic. There must have > been social changes in the world that made it less attractive to be an > Amazon. > > ..." > > The fact that there are no men would eventually lead to decline simply > because it would be difficult to maintain a population. They are much like > the America Shakers - a religion that banned sexual intercourse. They > thrived for awhile because they adopted a great number of orphans but > eventually the orphan supply dried up. The Shakers were economically > successful - farming and furniture makers of great repute - but they are > mostly gone (last piece information I had was that there was a group of > seven women in a community and at their peak there was about 6000). > > Now add to the fact that the Amazons were warriors and warriors are prone > to getting killed the odds were against them surviving. Yet, the Amazons prospered for a while. I imagine they had enough recruits to keep them going. So, something must have changed to dry up the flow of recruits. Either the advantages of being an Amazon lessened, or general social conditions in surrounding societies for women improved sufficiently that few wanted to 'run away' and join the Amazons. I don't think Livia can have been solely responsible. Besdides, aside from that incident, Livia was kept well occupied persecuting Elijans. Busy girl, Livia. > "Hmm, YAXI? In H&H, there seemed to be no problem with Gabs nominating > Xena as her champion. Of course, rules change over the years." > > Yes I forgot that in H&H Gabrielle in fact did challanged Melosa. Perhaps > the rules did change or Varia's tribe isn't Melosa's tribe per se. We are > never told they are Gabrielle's tribe and the fact they can't climb trees > seems to indicate they aren't that tribe. Maybe they just forgot how. I didn't see much tree climbing in Endgame, which was definitely Melosa's tribe. Except by Amarice. The Siberian Amazons, of course, definitely knew how to climb trees too. > "Maybe I just never really accepted Warrior Gabby, but I didn't find this > odd at all." > > Well you wouldn't ;>. Gabby by now is fairly good at dfending herself. > She has fought tons of big brutes so I think she could have held her own > with Varia. Now perhaps Gabby doesn't have the vested interested in Eve as > she does in Xena. If Xena was in danger Varia would have been dead meat - > Gabby would kick fron her to Tartarus. Well, we'll just have to differ on that one. Varia has been trained by Xena and Ares, I'm not sure Gabby was ever trained by Xena...? > "Now this is where I had a problem. _Varia_ giving Xena a tough time of > it? > Never. Xena could put Varia down one-handed without even breaking into a > sweat." > > I agree Xena should have mopped the floor with Varia. She might have been > restraining herself since Varia is the hope of the Amazons (sigh). What, not showing her up in front of her followers? This is Sensitive New Age Xena now, is it? > "And this I had a problem with. Xena putting herself at the mercy of > Varia's > conscience? I'm afraid I wouldn't regard any part of Varia's personality > as reliable enough to bet my life on. > > And Varia breaking down and being comforted by Eve of all people was a bit > too much." > > Yes Varia has many personalities and none are too stable but Eve's > comforting Varia seems in character for Eve. Yes, for Eve, but since Varia had just been intent on Eve's execution, I couldn't really see her accepting comfort from Eve. I was half expecting her to flip back into killer mode. As you say, she doesn't seem too stable. > "Agreed. Unfortunately I can't see an obviously good queen in the current > lot of Amazons. Cyane looks to be steadier and would be better than > Varia, > I think, but I don't know if she's really got the charisma to inspire her > troops. The other queens we don't really see enough of to tell." > > Actually I think Cyane would have made the better queen. If she can get to > the top amoung the Northern Amazons she must have had something going for > her. She certainly was more honorable and level headded than Varia. Certainly, agreed. > Oh > TPTB missed their chance. I was hoping Cyane would have at some point said > to X & G that they knew her mother Eris (this actress played Xena's > apprentice sidekick in Kindred Spirits). > > CherylA Oh, yes, of course. Actually I thought Eris looked a bit naive - probably just the way the part was written. Not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. ;) Evidently her daughter (presumably) who rose to become Cyane, was more talented. (And here arises the question again, where did little Amazons come from? I reckon the idea in Herc & The Amazon Women, or something not far off it, was maybe the modus operandi. Maybe Amazons went off to the surrounding villages, found an obliging male to do the necessary, and (presumably) if the result was a boy, dropped him back at the village, if a girl, kept her. ) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:49:29 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 4/9/03 12:02:16 AM Central Daylight Time, spri0037@tc.umn.edu writes: << don't believe Xena ws really going to eat it. She had that teasing look, and though I believe her ethics all along were for Aphrodite and Ares to get the apple, remember, Xena still (that nasty warlord part), still likes to make people squirm. >> That's probably the correct interpretation of their intent, especially the "squirm" part. As I suggested earlier, I think Lucy'may have given it a "play it for all it's worth" approach that influenced my wondering if Xena was really a little tempted. I actually like the ambiguity -- big surprise. :-) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #99 *************************************