From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #95 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, April 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 095 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] You Are There [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Re: You Are There [cande@sunlink.net] Re: [chakram-refugees] Gina Torres on Angel [Stephanie Wilson Subject: [chakram-refugees] You Are There While waiting for Cheryl to kindly send me a copy of her commentary I watched the ep myself and couldn't resist writing down some random observations. Notice how the ridge poles (?) of the inn are the same horses-head poles that were stuck in the sand on the beach in Return of the Valkyrie. Also, notice the hand-held 'action' camera style as Xena throws the Valkyries off the inn balcony - a nice touch that fits in with the 'live coverage' theme. Not really relevant to the ep, but looking at the regular Season 6 title sequence, I think there's one shot in the sequence (just after Gabby gets blown up in Amphipolis) that dates all the way back to 'Unchained Heart' where Xena goes 'scouting' and beats up a small contingent of Darphus's men. Highlights of the ep, or just odd points I noticed: Xena advancing on the camera with an icy glare as if she's not sure what it is but she already doesn't like the look of it. Gabby sniffing and tasting the clip-on mike. Gabby's aside to Xena in the interview - 'everyone's seen the tapestry'. Michael's air of superiority and insistence on the *Arch*angel bit of his title. Though I love to hate Michael as an unscrupulous scheming power freak, I have to say Charles Mesure is extremely good. Lucifer: "Cover anything up? I'm the devil, you idiot! I'm really bad. I'm evil incarnate. What do I have to cover up?!" Eve completely losing it and giving nosey reporter Nigel the Livia treatment. Gabby - dare I say 'naive' - giving Nigel an interview to try and set the record straight. Still, I suppose she'd never encountered a TV reporter before. The little spat leaving the studio (passing the Cleo 2525 time capsules) "You could walk *beside* my horse" Gabby: "Right. So what's the plan?" Ares (pestered by Nigel in the tavern): "I'm trying to get laid, I'm not a criminal!". The cave with the Monty Python label 'Cave --> ' Nigel's attempt to set up a 'Deep Throat' / Watergate type of code with the mysterious informant in the cave. "I'll name a god and count to five ..." There's a line from Aphrodite that always sounded a little wrong to me, and I've just figured out why. I think it's due to a subtle but definite difference between English and American English. "My powers are tied to Olympus, and there is no way for me to get back there. Xena made sure of that!" In English English, that means 'ensured' i.e. Xena deliberately ensured that Aphrodite couldn't get back to Olympus. This, in the context, doesn't make sense. The only interpretation I could see was that Aphrodite was somehow being catty about Xena killing off the other gods and somehow blaming her own loss of godhood on that, or on Xena's failure to stop Caligula in time.... which still seems remarkably uncharitable of Aphrodite. However, I *think* that in American English it means 'confirmed' i.e. Xena investigated or looked for a way for Aphrodite to get back to Olympus and couldn't find one. That fits much better. Xena toying with Nigel after she captured the golden apples. "Xena no. You can't send Ares back to Olympus". "Now he's telling me what I can't do. I think I can". (Love the expression on her face). Ares whole little speech from his throne - "Oh, the pain the pain". This is, I think, my favourite comedy of the entire Xena series. It has funny and beautifully characterised cameos from a host of recurring characters - Michael, Eve, Ares, Charon, Caligula, Lucifer, Aphrodite... and it also advances the storyline in one major respect, of restoring Aphrodite and Ares to Olympus. This comedy (unlike most) is tied right into the main series. Oddly enough, I have no trouble at all accepting the presence of Nigel and his camera. This is a little strange since I totally reject Married With Fishsticks and one of my major beefs with that appalling episode is that there is just no possible rationale for why Gabby should find herself in 20th century Florida - or, if all that was just going on inside her head, where the ideas came from. (I just can't resist mentioning the subversive thought that's just occurred to me, which is that if the inside of Gabby's head was always like that, it would explain an awful lot.... ;) Sorry Gabfans 8) I think the difference is that the characters in YAT are well written, in character, and the comedy arises from the acuteness of the observation. The characters in MWF are absurd and unbelievable, not even the alter egos of Aphrodite and Discord can save it. Probably if YAT was less expertly done, I'd be more reluctant to accept the anachronism of Nigel. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:29:35 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: You Are There (Many thanks Cheryl for sending me a copy of her review after I lost it) On Monday 07 April 2003 10:04, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > You Are There (snips) > Xena and Gabrielle return to the Norse lands once again. They look up > their old comrade, Beowulf and ask him to help them get to Odin. Beowulf, > however, is not only oddly uninterested in helping his friends but is no > longer smitten with Gabrielle. When a group of Valkary show up to stop > Xena, Beowulf also sits out the resulting brawl. Xena of course kicks > Valkary butt but her fight is interrupted by a most remarkable arrival. It seemed a very one-sided fight.... Xena just threw all three Valkyries out one after another. As we'd expect. > Up pops a TV crew and an obnoxious "investigative" reporter. Dressed like > Gerardo Rivera at his most macho, Nigel has come to discover the truth > behind Xena's return to the Norse lands. The funny thing is that no one > seems a bit put out by the appearance of these living anachronisms. Xena > certainly is not pleased that her brawl has been interrupted but she > doesn't seemed to be astonished in the slightest by her sudden appearance > on TV. I had the impression that she didn't know what the camera was and wasn't expecting to like what she found. But people can comprehend and be surprised by a certain amount of novelty or weirdness, anything stranger than that tends to be mentally dismissed as 'magic'. I do believe that an ancient Greek suddenly confronted by modern gadgetry would find a car or a refrigerator much more amazing than a computer. Maybe even such commonplace (to us) things as perfectly flat floors and table tops. To get back to Nigel and his TV crew - Xena and Gabby have been in and out of Olympus, they're used to the idea of gods and magicians being able to see events happening elsewhere, I guess a TV camera might seem, to them, to be just another gadget. > Nigel is now on the hunt. Nigel like many a TV investigator is less > interested in discovering the truth and more interested in proving his own > version of the truth. So off he goes to interview all the people he thinks > can prove him right. In Hades he interviews a very over-worked Hades and > an impatient Caligula. Charon says yeah Xena's good for business but she > is just a drop in a bucket for him and besides she always pays her way > across the River Styx unlike another unnamed super hero (thinking about how > many times Xena died she must be a major source of revenue for Charon). Actually, he did name him. Hercules. I'm trying to think back to the HTLJ episodes that Charon appeared in, to see if there are any grounds for the accusation, but my memory isn't good enough. > > Nigel now goes and finds Eve. Eve is with her prayer circle and she > invites Nigel to join them. Nigel has come not to pray but ask Eve about > her mother and her lover Ares. Eve is at first polite - the time of many > gods is over and her mother, though no follower of the way of love, > respects Eve's way. Nigel is not to be put off. He brings up Eve's bloody > past, her sexual relations with Ares, and accuses her of a "bloody minage a > tois" with her mom and Ares. He tries the patience of a saint. Eve is > obviously not a saint yet. She goes off like a Roman candle - in funny and > profane tirade she berates and browbeats Nigel into a quivering puddle and > then socks in the mouth. Nigel is pleased - talk about great TV. Eve had a very short fuse. Evidently, even though a follower of Eli's Way of Love, she still suffered from the general shortage of love occasioned by Aphrodite's fall. One might have expected the Elijans love supply to be independent of Aphrodite, but evidently (and intriguingly) this is not so. > > Finally Nigel gets his interview with Gabrielle. She has come to defend > her friend but Nigel is obsessed with sex. She tries to tell him that Xena > isn' t Ares' lover but Nigel shows her clips of Xena's amorous trysts with > Ares (Ares would be just the type to tape himself and then lose the > videos). Gabrielle hardly has a chance to react when Nigel asks the $24,000 > question. IS she and Xena lovers or were they until Xena threw her over for > Ares. Gabrielle is confused. Nigel is persistent. Gabrielle finally > reveals that she doesn't love Xena. Both she and Nigel are shocked. I thought Gabby looked puzzled, maybe a little bit surprised, rather than shocked. > Outside the studio Gabrielle asks what the plan is. Xena is annoyed; why > does she have to always explain the plan? Can't Gabrielle connect the dots > herself after all these years? Gabrielle is pissed why can't Xena just let > her in on the plan - boy she wishes she could use the pinch on her. No > says Xena "you can't put the pinch on you can only take it off". This is > obviously a sore point with Gabrielle who is just a sidekick walking ten > paces behind Xena and her horse. Xena is defensive; Gabrielle can walk > beside her horse. Suddenly the two realize they aren't behaving like > people who love one another do and they resolve to get love back. (The > amusing point is that their bickering is exactly what lovers often do and > what they have been known to do every so often). And, it was funny. The whole spat was started off by Gabs asking 'What's the plan" so it was amusing when right at the end she repeats "So, what's the plan?" followed by a little chipmunk grin. > In a snowy plain outside of Valhalla Nigel and Dite are dodging fireballs. > They join Gabrielle and Beowulf who are watching Odin's castle where there > are sounds of a fierce battle. Aphrodite is happy to hear that Gabby and > Xena are still together but Gabby assures her that she and Xena will always > be partners. Symptomatic (as I'm sure every subtexter realised ;) of the general shortage of love going around... > Xena now has the golden apples. Odin still thinks Xena is going to eat > them but Nigel is finally convinced that Xena is going to give them to > Aphrodite. Suddenly Ares appears he's all spruced up and looking godly. > Xena tosses him an apple and he eats. He is back to the old Ares - > shooting fireballs and trying to seduce Xena. Xena is tempted - love may > be missing but lust is still around. Gabby however gently keeps Xena on > track. Ah. Now the way I saw it, Xena was just toying with Nigel when she was making as if to eat the apple, IMO she was going to give the apple to Aphrodite all along and Gabby's interjection was superfluous. (And isn't it annoying to be told to do something you're going to do anyway, it robs you of some of the credit?) But then, I would see it that way of course ;) > Xena tosses Dite the apple and tells Ares that his sister will keep > him company. Aphrodite eats and tiny hearts float through the air. Beowulf > gets the gleam in his eye back when he looks at Gabby. Xena and Gabrielle > are happy again. > > Nigel now wraps up. Ares, back on his throne, says that all though there > are sparks between him and Xena (illustrated by little sparks flying form > his snapping fingers), she restored love because she is guilty for all the > people she killed ("oh the pain, the pain"). Grindhilda is the mysterious > deep throat and reveals she helped Xena get to the golden apples. Xena > explains that love and war must be together to balance each other. Eve and > her followers come to apologize to Nigel and to demand flagellation for > their sins. > > In a tavern, Xena and Gabrielle sit with Nigel. He has one more question: > Are they lovers? Xena is ready to pound Nigel but Gabby says why not tell > him. Xena agrees and as the two smirks, Nigel gets ready for his big > scoop. Xena says that "technically.." And the camera goes dead. Nigel > doesn't get his scoop and neither does his audience. IIRC, certain sections of the fandom refused to believe there was nothing more on the script than dot..dot..dot.. ;) > It was clever episode. Michael Hurst was good as the reported but he could > have been a bit more smarmy and smug. He was just too likeable. My > favorite performances were by Charles Mesure as Michael and Adrienne > Wilkinson. Michael's arrogance was a perfect comic device as he preened > for the camera making sure his profile was just perfect and that Nigel got > is title right - ARCHangel. I have to agree. I love to hate the character but Charles Mesure is very good in the part. > Everyone else was very good too - Joel Tolbeck's > Lucifer was menacing and funny and for once Joel was able to restrain his > more giddy nature. Was that Joel Tobeck? I'd always assumed it was the actor who played Lucifer in Heart of Darkness. Obviously they recast - though of course, with that much makeup on, and having seen Alex mendoza as the devil Lucifer for so short a time, recasting caused no problems. > Kevin Smith and Alex Tydings as always were in fine comic form. > Lucy and Renee didn't have a lot to do here - this episode was > obviously designed to give them a break. They did have one terrific spat > though with some inside jokes. When Gabby says she always walks behind > Xena 's horse it may have been a reference to the fact ROC's husband always > found that strangely funny. I didn't know that. I thought Xena's "You can walk *beside* my horse!" was a bit of a put-down, too. Whether she meant it that way, I don't know. Interestingly, though Gabby acquired a horse in Animal Attraction, she didn't seem to keep him long, nor did she acquire another horse after the 25-year sleep. Maybe she isn't a horse person by nature. > There also some unsettling dialog that seems to foreshadow FIN. When the > Valkarys arrive to stop Xena from going to Valhalla one says if Xena dies a > hero's death she can get in. Xena replies that it is "in her long range > plans." "But you were a Valkyrie once, Xena. You know the way to Valhalla. Die a hero's death. I'll escort you there myself." X: "That's part of my long-range plan. Right now, I just need to see Odin." I'm not sure how much weight to give that line - it could just be a throwaway line from Xena. On reflection though, the way she said it - so matter-of-factly - does seem to add significance to it. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:45:55 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Re: You Are There - -------Original Message------- From: cr "Actually, he did name him. Hercules. I'm trying to think back to the HTLJ episodes that Charon appeared in, to see if there are any grounds for the accusation, but my memory isn't good enough." Actually this must have been a well known incident since it just popped up in a fan fiction story I'm reading. Charon was complaining about Hercules not paying his way in the story. It must have been the episode where Herc was turned into a pig because in the story Charon was upset he never got the pig Hercules promised. > "Eve had a very short fuse. Evidently, even though a follower of Eli's Way of Love, she still suffered from the general shortage of love occasioned by Aphrodite's fall. One might have expected the Elijans love supply to be independent of Aphrodite, but evidently (and intriguingly) this is not so." You would think Aphrodite would only affect romantic or erotic love not platonic love. AS you say interesting. So what we are saying is that Eli's god doesn't control very much of mankind's gentler emotions. He can't control love but violence and hate still seem to abound even with a dethroned god of war. > "I thought Gabby looked puzzled, maybe a little bit surprised, rather than shocked." You are right. Gabrielle does seemed more puzzled than surprised. Nigel seems shocked. Of course there goes his big scoop. "And, it was funny. The whole spat was started off by Gabs asking 'What's the plan" so it was amusing when right at the end she repeats "So, what's the plan?" followed by a little chipmunk grin." Well it's obvious Gabby can't connect the dots. Of course with Xena you just can't connect the dots in a conventional way. "Ah. Now the way I saw it, Xena was just toying with Nigel when she was making as if to eat the apple, IMO she was going to give the apple to Aphrodite all along and Gabby's interjection was superfluous. (And isn't it annoying to be told to do something you're going to do anyway, it robs you of some of the credit?) But then, I would see it that way of course ;)" Or Xena was playing with Ares. Perhaps Gabrielle was just telling Xena to stop torturing Ares. I assumed Gabby was telling Xena not to eat the apple perhaps she was just telling Xena to stop fooling around and get love back into working order. "IIRC, certain sections of the fandom refused to believe there was nothing more on the script than dot..dot..dot.. ;)" Yeah there was a bit of displeasure at the obvious joke. Perhaps they thought Xena actually spilled the beans and RT cut the scene. It fit very well into the theory that RT was malevolently preventing X & G from revealing the true nature of their relationship. "Was that Joel Tobeck? I'd always assumed it was the actor who played Lucifer in Heart of Darkness. Obviously they recast - though of course, with that much makeup on, and having seen Alex mendoza as the devil Lucifer for so short a time, recasting caused no problems." Yeah it was and it surprised me too. I didn't notice the credit when I first saw the episode. It didn't sound like Joel. I never liked Strife or Deimos - I found them annoying. I think I just stupidly assumed Joel Tobeck would always play the same type of character. "I didn't know that. I thought Xena's "You can walk *beside* my horse!" was a bit of a put-down, too. Whether she meant it that way, I don't know. Interestingly, though Gabby acquired a horse in Animal Attraction, she didn't seem to keep him long, nor did she acquire another horse after the 25-year sleep. Maybe she isn't a horse person by nature." Actually Gabby never does get a specific horse of her own but she does ride in the sixth season. She has a horse in The Rhinegold and I'm sure she rides in other episodes. She seems to ride a cram colored horse most often. "But you were a Valkyrie once, Xena. You know the way to Valhalla. Die a hero's death. I'll escort you there myself." X: "That's part of my long-range plan. Right now, I just need to see Odin." I'm not sure how much weight to give that line - it could just be a throwaway line from Xena. On reflection though, the way she said it - so matter-of-factly - does seem to add significance to it. Well as she told Gabrielle in The Execution people in their line of work don't grow old. I assume Xena saw a violent end for herself and accepted it. It was Gabrielle's probable violent end that disturbed her. CherylA cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:51:22 -0500 From: Stephanie Wilson Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Gina Torres on Angel I caught part of Angel last week (I watch Buffy but have never caught on to Angel) and my jaw hit the floor when Gina Torres popped out of Cordelia. I'll be tuning in now, even though I haven't the faintest about what's going on. At 03:39 PM 4/6/2003 -0400, KLOSSNER9@aol.com wrote: >In the "This Week's Best Bets" column of my paper's TV Week, they >announce that on Wednesday on WB -- > >Angel. Now a full-blown woman, Cordelia's (Charisma Carpenter) >daughter (guest star Gina Torres, Firefly) exhibits a dangerously >powerful influence over virtually everyone she meets in the new >episode "Shiny Happy People." Even Angel (David Boreanaz) >can't resist falling prey to doing her bidding. Fred (Amy Acker) >knows what's going on and tries to stop it. > >/// >I haven't been watching the show, but apparently the Torres character >is a sinister child who grew quickly into an adult, like Hope on XWP. > >Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #95 *************************************