From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #76 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, March 18 2003 Volume 03 : Number 076 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Metro Mag 3/03 ["Jackie M. Young" > [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Metro Mag 3/03 [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Re: Dangerous Prey ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Dangerous Prey [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Metro Mag 3/03 On Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 23:51:57 EST, IfeRae@aol.com wrote. >> Personally, I don't think it would've been appropriate for her to tell >>fans to "cease and desist." I admire her for saving her requests to us >>for positive things like her wedding and charitable activities. I also >> strongly disagree that it would've silenced the critics anyway, >> >Crap. Forgot the main reason I don't think Lucy should've told fans to >stop picking on RT. She might've generated disproportionate public >attention for the very "nasty" folks we say don't represent most of us. - --Very possibly (and this is a different situation), but she had no qualms about issuing "cease and desist" orders to the Joxer-haters. I frankly was surprised at that at the time, but it did silence one part of the fan contingent. TR's her friend, so she was defending her friend in that instance. RT's her hubby, so what's so different about defending your hubby from defending your friend? Basically, I'm just saying it would've been nice to hear her *real* take on FIN, including her take on the fans' reaction to FIN, and not just some "processed" press release. Whether it would've garnered more attention for the negative fans, it's hard to tell. They got a lot of press to begin with, just because of the negativity. Maybe LL's telling them to "knock it off" just like she told the Joxer-haters to do, would've done the trick. Hard to tell. ;=/ As for staying positive, I guess that's where LL and Xena diverge. ;) LL tends to stay away from negativity, but Xena doesn't. That's why I find Xena more interesting. ;) Just MO, ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:03:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 17 March 2003 16:51, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > Xena now has changed back into her own clothes (why she should bother I > > don't > > know maybe Varia's clothing pinches her). > > ROC explains this in one of the newsletters (and "Coffee Talk 2"?). She > says she wanted Xena in her signature outfit, when Xena was highlighted > against the backdrop of the cave. ROC liked the image of that. Lucy > apparently gave ROC some playful guff at only getting to wear the cool > Amazon get-up for two seconds. She thought maybe ROC was being political > about all the skin showing, when in fact ROC was in full director mode. > > -- Ife Yet *another* case where Gab screwed up!!! (or should I say, her alter ego). cr ... returns to contemplating the Xena mag with Amazon Xena on the cover...... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:37:09 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 17 March 2003 11:33, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > The story opens with Queen Marga being chased through the forest. She is > finally brought down by a gloating man who says she give him much of a > challenge. He taunts the queen and then we fade to black and the audience > is left to wonder what he did to her. Here is my first problem with this > episode. Queen Marga really doesn't seem to be much of an Amazon. We have > seen that the Amazons can move through the trees with great skill and > daring but Marga is caught flat-footed in the open. My impression is that Marga was escaping from captivity, or at least from a fight. She certainly looked rather beaten-up. > Perhaps in the 36 > years since Ephiny's death the Amazons have lost their skills because that > is the only explanation I can come up with the poor fight Maraga put up. > Then again if Marga fought well the episode would be exactly three minutes > long. I was really disappointed that Marga got killed so early in the ep. I liked Marga, I thought she made an excellent queen in Coming Home. But a more telling indication of the loss of Amazon competence is surely that Prince Morlock, with his relatively few men, could prey on them. He only had a little hunting party, far fewer men than Bellerophon later. Surely, the Amazons should have been able to locate his camp and an attack en masse would have wiped Morlock out. > Varia however is still angry with Xena. She is going off to find the man > who killed her sisters. Xena is equally upset; she saves Varia from > another trap and yet the young woman won't stop her hot headed pursuit so > Xena snaps a collar around her neck and leashes her little a disobedient > puppy. I thought Varia thoroughly deserved that. But then, I thought Varia really needed to grow up. > In the next scene the captured man is stuck way up a tree and his comrades > are trying to figure out how to rescue him. Amusing little contretemps, that. They were bumbling round ineffectually just like in real life. It looked like they were in danger of causing him some damage in the process. How did Xena put him there? Never mind, she has many skills. > Xena and Varia are watching. > Xena is hoping that whoever is in charge will take charge in order to get > the man down. No one seems to be doing this, instead Morlock and Raczar > are watching Xena and Varia. Morlock is impressed with Xena's strategy and > with Xena's chakrum. Xena's spidey senses kicks in and she knows she is > being watched. She takes Varia aside and announces that Varia is to take > off her clothes - nope not a subtext moment. Varia reappears in Xena's > clothing sans (oops French how unpatriotic of me) chakrum I would have thought French a most appropriate language to discuss subtext moments, or even Xena's accoutrements, n'est-ce-pas? > which Morlock > notices (he shouldn't notice however because he only sees Varia's left side > and Xena wears the chakrum on her right). Meanwhile Xena looking quit > fetching in Varia's miniscule outfit sneaks up behind a person she assumes > is Morlock but it is just a stooge in his cape. Morlock appears at a cave > entrance and calls out to Xena to come in and play. > > Xena now has changed back into her own clothes (why she should bother I > don't know maybe Varia's clothing pinches her). I was most disappointed in that. I thought Varia's cossie was positively the dernier cri in Warrior Princess gear. Xena looked good enough to eat in it. > She tells Varia who is > carrying the barrel with the explosive to stay out side and Xena goes into > the cave. Inside the cave Xena and Morlock play cat and mouse. Morlock > introduces himself "Prince Chezney Bloodicar Molocock of Sharazadaskan". It was Scheherazadistan, IIRC - obviously derived from Scheherazade who, if memory serves me, was obliged to invent all the stories of the Arabian Nights? I little jeu d'esprit by the writers, I think. It was, IIRC, Prince Chesney Vladivar Morloch. But I can't be sure. Maybe someone has a copy of the script? Whatever, I got the impression the writers were putting in names that had some meaning in classical legend, not that I'm an expert. They just sounded vaguely familiar. > Xena is unimpressed: she is Xena of Amphipolis, Warrior Princess, Warrior > Mom, conqueror of Prince Whoever form Upperaberkan." Morlock says he > finally found an Amazon he can fight. Xena says she is not an Amazon but > Morlock says " but you're so tall". Obviously more easily impressed than Amarice! :) > Then the fight begins Xena flings her > chakrum but Morlock has a similar weapon and the counteract each other. As > they clash and hit cave walls sparks fly. Xena and Morlock move about > using the shadows and patches of light to track each other. The lightening > here is very good ROC and her lightening man did a good job of using light > so that the combatants are always visible yet the impression is that they > are in the dark. > > Outside Varia grows tired of waiting and goes in the cave. Why do they always do that? Why does nobody ever just do what they're told? This sort of thing seems to be almost de rigeur in Xena episodes. I suppose, as you said, Xena has to have some handicap to stop her from flattening Prince Morlock too quickly. > She is of > course spotted by Xena and when Xena is distracted by her Morlock is able > to wound Xena. Varia is soon captured by Morlock and is about to be > dispatched when Xena uses her chakrum to destroy Morlock's sword. Xena > rescues Varia for the third time. Varia redeems herself a bit by having > brought the explosives in the cave. Varia entices Morlock's men to shoot > at her. When she falls behind a cave wall the men, seeing her boots, think > they have killed her. When they find the empty boots they pik them uo and > ignite the explosive barrel. Many of Morlock's men are killed but not > Morlock or Raczar. As Morlock steps over the charred remains of his men he > expresses his pleasure in his new found quarry. Not the sort of man one would want to have for a boss. Why did his men stay with him? The pay? > Xena and the wounded Varia are hobbling through the woods. Xena notices > that the animals are fleeing and she smells smoke. In another part of the > forest Morlock's men are throwing flammable liquids around. On a hill > Morlock and Raczar are watching; Raczar yells for the men to get out > because he is going shoot a flaming arrow into the woods. When they can't > hear him Morlock orders Raczar to shoot anyway. Raczar is shocked and > protests but finally obeys and watches as his comrades burn to death. I almost got the impression Morlock got a kick out of seeing his men get toasted. I've just figured it out - he doubtless saved a heap on severance pay. > Things are looking bad for Xena and the wounded Varia. The forest is > filling with smoke and Varia begs Xena to leave her. Xena devises a plan > to save Varia - she bends a tree into a slingshot and plans to shoot Varia > to safety. Varia seems a bit worried about the landing but Xena advises her > to tuck and roll. I absolutely have to agree with Varia here. Xena's advice is a little optimistic, to say the least. By my hazy calculation, to get a range of, say, 200 yards (and I imagine that would be the minimum that would be of any use), she would have to be launched at a 45-degree angle at just under 100mph. Which means she would be landing at just under 100 mph. (This ignores air resistance). Always assuming she didn't hit a tree.... come to think of it, maybe a tree might be the softest thing she could hope to hit. But the whole thing is moot, because there is no way to get that much bend into a pine tree without heavy ropes and pulleys, and if you did, the tree would just snap, I think. > Varia climbs aboard and she is shot into the air only to > be captured in a big net by Morlock. And the YAXI gets bigger. Morlock just happens to have a catapult and net handy. And it just happens to be pointing and set up on the exact trajectory to intercept Varia's flightpath en route (these things took a long time - like many tens of minutes - to set up). And when they intersect, instead of the combined net/Varia object continuing on at a joint trajectory, all forward momentum magically disappears and they drop vertically to the ground. Without, apparently, damaging Varia much on impact. I find Xena's leap onto Cecrops' ship much more credible... at least that was Xena doing the impossible, not just one of the supporting dramatis personae. > Morlock orders Raczar to take the > half-dead Varia to the arena. Xena is off to rescue Varia again (Varia is > more trouble that first season Gabrielle). Considering all this trouble happens in one ep, I have to agree. A real enfant terrible, Varia. Still, having been dangled from trees, dropped down holes, shot with arrows, launched (and netted), and tied to a stake on top of a tower, we can't say she didn't get what was coming to her. > Suddenly Morlock is behind Xena. She blocks his blow but Morlock > says he doesn't care - he will fight all night because this the fight he > has been waiting for his entire life. Xena says in that case why should > she give it to him. She then turns her back and flips off the tower. An > enraged Morlock kicks the post Varia was tied to down at her. Her is > enraged at Xena's refusal to fight. He shouts, he sputters (it's like Bush > talking to Chiroc), and finally he leaps from the tower. This is what Xena > has been waiting for - Morlock to act in anger. As he falls toward her, > she tips the post upright and Morlock is impaled. It is Xena that looks > into the eyes of Morlock as he dies. I thought that was a suitably unimpressive and offhand end for a pretentious thug like Morlock. Spiked on a bit of wood behind Xena's back. Ah well, c'est la vie. Or maybe not, in this instance. > Tsianina Joelson is good as the temperamental > Varia. She has the difficult task of principally acting as Xena's handicap > in this game that Morlock is playing. It is a foregone conclusion that > Xena would have made short work of Morlock if Varia wasn't around but she > was a necessary distraction for dramatic purposes. Still as I watched > Joleson I am still struck by the fact she would have made a better Eve > especially if TPTB would have had the good sense to have had Eve raised as > an Amazon (but I digress). I found Varia attractive, but I didn't really like her. Not because she caused Xena trouble, other characters have caused Xena trouble before now - Amarice for instance - and I've liked them fine. Maybe I just didn't think she had the 'right stuff' to be an Amazon queen. Ephiny did, Marga did. I think Varia would have been OK as a femme fatale (not necessarily Amazon) but she didn't have the sang-froid to make a leading Amazon warrior. > ROC did a good job directing. She and her lighting director did a really > good job in the cave scene and with Morlock exercise in the tent. Her > fights were well choreographed. The fight on the tower was just a bit > confusing to me and I think it needed some more long shots but they may > have been lost in editing. Maybe the long shots just weren't there, dangling off a tower is a pretty high-risk occupation and may have been too difficult to set up safely. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:25:49 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Metro Mag 3/03 In a message dated 3/17/03 12:57:59 AM Central Standard Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: << As for staying positive, I guess that's where LL and Xena diverge. ;) LL tends to stay away from negativity, but Xena doesn't. >> LOL! Yes the two are different, especially since the latter made trouble her life's work. I'm sure there were times Lucy wished she really was Xena and could "Kill 'em all!" - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:23:13 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Dangerous Prey Ife Wrote; "ROC explains this in one of the newsletters (and "Coffee Talk 2"?). She says she wanted Xena in her signature outfit, when Xena was highlighted against the backdrop of the cave. ROC liked the image of that. Lucy apparently gave ROC some playful guff at only getting to wear the cool Amazon get-up for two seconds. She thought maybe ROC was being political about all the skin showing, when in fact ROC was in full director mode." I didn't remember ROC saying this but it certainly makes sense. If Xena didn't change clothes we would have Varia in Xena's costume the whole episode and that certainly doesn't seem right. I still think Lucy looked fine in Varia's clothes though. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:53:01 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Dangerous Prey In a message dated 3/17/03 5:19:08 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << Ife Wrote; "ROC explains this in one of the newsletters (and "Coffee Talk 2"?). She says she wanted Xena in her signature outfit, when Xena was highlighted against the backdrop of the cave. ROC liked the image of that. Lucy apparently gave ROC some playful guff at only getting to wear the cool Amazon get-up for two seconds. She thought maybe ROC was being political about all the skin showing, when in fact ROC was in full director mode." I didn't remember ROC saying this but it certainly makes sense. If Xena didn't change clothes we would have Varia in Xena's costume the whole episode and that certainly doesn't seem right. I still think Lucy looked fine in Varia's clothes though. CherylA >> Heh. You're not the only one. Creation sure used that outfit on enough stuff, considering you'd have missed it if you blinked during that ep. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:02:46 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > > My impression is that Marga was escaping from captivity, or at least from a > fight. She certainly looked rather beaten-up. Yeah I thought she got hurt running from Morlock. That's why I didn't understand why she just didn't take to the tress. Amazon's are suppose to be skillful tree fighters. > > > But a more telling indication of the loss of Amazon competence is surely that > Prince Morlock, with his relatively few men, could prey on them. He only > had a little hunting party, far fewer men than Bellerophon later. Surely, > the Amazons should have been able to locate his camp and an attack en masse > would have wiped Morlock out. Amazon security stinks. It is a sad day when a whole tribe hides in their village while the queen has to handle a serious threat herself and send for Xena and Gabrielle to help them. > > > Amusing little contretemps, that. They were bumbling round ineffectually > just like in real life. It looked like they were in danger of causing him > some damage in the process. How did Xena put him there? Never mind, she > has many skills. She threw him there. Remember Raczar said she had the strength of many men. > > > I would have thought French a most appropriate language to discuss subtext > moments, or even Xena's accoutrements, n'est-ce-pas? Yes indeed. However I never took French in school - I was oddly band from French class because I was bad in algebra for some odd reason they were link in junior high. When I finally redeemed myself I only could take Latin and German. Well any way no loss - we all hate the French this week anyway. I am enjoying you French lessons (don't tell Bush). > > > I was most disappointed in that. I thought Varia's cossie was positively > the dernier cri in Warrior Princess gear. Xena looked good enough to eat > in it. Why cr - I blush - you want to eat a warrior princess. But yes she was scrumptious. Xena could have taken that cossie home for future use. > > It was, IIRC, Prince Chesney Vladivar Morloch. But I can't be sure. Maybe > someone has a copy of the script? Whatever, I got the impression the > writers were putting in names that had some meaning in classical legend, not > that I'm an expert. They just sounded vaguely familiar. Yeah he was definitely Balkan in origin so maybe Vladivar was a reference to Vlad the Impaler. I could have used a captioning here. > . > > Why do they always do that? Why does nobody ever just do what they're > told? This sort of thing seems to be almost de rigeur in Xena episodes. > I suppose, as you said, Xena has to have some handicap to stop her from > flattening Prince Morlock too quickly. Well if everyone did as they were told all episodes would be five minutes long. Although I think Varia pushed the limits even Gabrielle at her most obstinate listen when mortal danger loomed before her. > > > Not the sort of man one would want to have for a boss. Why did his men stay > with him? The pay? Maybe or perhaps they were family retainers. They certainly were frightened of hi. > > > I almost got the impression Morlock got a kick out of seeing his men get > toasted. I've just figured it out - he doubtless saved a heap on severance > pay. > Can we say sadist. Morlock is also stupid since doesn't realize the kind of danger Xena posses to him and that he might need his men to help him. Of course he is arrogant too. Such a nice combination - arrogance and stupidity. > > I absolutely have to agree with Varia here. Xena's advice is a little > optimistic, to say the least. By my hazy calculation, to get a range of, > say, 200 yards (and I imagine that would be the minimum that would be of any > use), she would have to be launched at a 45-degree angle at just under > 100mph. Which means she would be landing at just under 100 mph. (This > ignores air resistance). Always assuming she didn't hit a tree.... come > to think of it, maybe a tree might be the softest thing she could hope to hit. Perhaps this was a clever plan by Xena to save the Amazon nation form Queen Varia. She would have killed Varia why claiming she was actually trying to save her. Afterall Xena could claim she would have been able to pull such a stunt off why should Varia be able to it too. Morlock however ruined Xena's clever plan and now she has to rescue Varia again. > > > Considering all this trouble happens in one ep, I have to agree. A real > enfant terrible, Varia. Still, having been dangled from trees, dropped > down holes, shot with arrows, launched (and netted), and tied to a stake on > top of a tower, we can't say she didn't get what was coming to her. Yeah you never do feel sorry for her, do you? You just think she deserved her bumps and bruises. > > > I thought that was a suitably unimpressive and offhand end for a pretentious > thug like Morlock. Spiked on a bit of wood behind Xena's back. Ah well, > c'est la vie. Or maybe not, in this instance. A nice ignoble end. Xena doesn't even kill him actually - she lets an inaimate object do it for her. The girls got flair. > > > I found Varia attractive, but I didn't really like her. Not because she > caused Xena trouble, other characters have caused Xena trouble before now - > Amarice for instance - and I've liked them fine. Maybe I just didn't think > she had the 'right stuff' to be an Amazon queen. Ephiny did, Marga did. > I think Varia would have been OK as a femme fatale (not necessarily Amazon) > but she didn't have the sang-froid to make a leading Amazon warrior. > I agree she isn't queen material. She would make a fine captain but she doesn't seem to have the judgment to be queen nor does she seem likely to develop that trait. I don't know if she would make a good femme fatale - they have to have a more subtle quality - there is nothing subtle about Varia. > Maybe the long shots just weren't there, dangling off a tower is a pretty > high-risk occupation and may have been too difficult to set up safely. > Didn't think of that. Also it would be hard to disguise the stuntees with extended distance shots. CherylA I hope you don't get bs this time. I hade to this as a word document. I'm having e-mail troubles. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #76 *************************************