From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #67 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, March 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 067 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Almost Sears, Darien and Meighan [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr > [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" > [cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Almost Sears, Darien and Meighan Having said in my last post that the vacation industry had recovered from 9-ll, I want to clarify that this is a relative recovery. The hotel WAS more filled than last year, but the restaurants were still no where near so crowded as they usually are. But, compared to the Ghost Town that Pasadena was like in 2002, one can see a definite increase in travelers. We've still got a ways to go to reach the economic level the vacation industry in America was at before 9-11 though. The next thing at the con was the collectibles auction. And autographs from Jay and Melinda. The autographs were being signed in a little alcove to the left of the stage and closer to the back wall than the back edge of the stage was. In the past, they've been done in the annex, a big open room just off the performing hall. I liked the new way better, because for most of the time while you were on line, you could still see and hear the people on stage. When the autographs were done in the annex, you missed everything that was going on. Well, this new way you could see and hear everything UNTIL you got real close. Then, once you were past the stage area, you could no longer see nor hear the performer. Unfortunately, the minute I got into the no see-um/hear-um zone, Steve Sears came out on stage. So once again I don't have information on one of the guests. I really enjoy Steve's presentations at the cons. He's got a great sense of humor and always connects with the fans. Judging by the audience's cheerful and absorbed response to Sears, this was yet another good appearance by him. Steve is the only "instantly recognizable" con guest who actually wanders the hall. Which is an interesting commentary on its own. That a writer is just a writer but an actor-hey, they're a celebrity. The actors would get mobbed and totally swamped if they tried to just walk around and enjoy the con, watching the other acts, peeking at the t-shirts with their character's pictures on them. Steve only gets "semi-swamped". Heh. Hudson did run through the crowd tossing candy kisses to us a couple of years ago, but that was part of her stage act-she did this when everybody was in their seats for her appearance. She didn't just wander around freely with the masses. The actors all mostly stick to the stage. It's very hard for stars to just be "folks" among the starstruck. Early on it was much more possible. My local buds were reminiscing about Kevin Smith in Burbank for the second con. He went into the bar when they were there and wound up sitting around all night with them, drinking and talking. They had a great time with him. It's a very special memory for them. One of the local buds also talked about how she was in the restroom at another early Burbank con. And was bent over the sink washing her hands and heard the stall door behind her open. She suddenly felt this big ol' swat on the butt. She straightened up right smartly and turned to glare at the person who had smacked her. And it was Hudson. Who gave her a happy, blinding grin and said, "Hey-how ya doing, honey? Having a good time?" My bud was literally speechless. Hudson washed her hands and took off, her handler who had been blocking the door from the outside to give Hudson some privacy trailing after her. Then about 50 women stampeded into the bathroom, breathless and squealing about having just seen Hudson and storming the stalls. As my bud says, "It just hadn't registered that I was at an event where there's two-thousand women in the audience and yet only me and one other grrl were using the bathroom. Well, duh..." Jay and Melinda were both charming as they gave out autographs. The actors always pay the fans respect when they sign autographs-they look you in the eye and they all say, "Thank you" when you come up to them. (Some folks then get into little Alphonse/Gaston polite gratification duels with the stars. Star: "Thank you." Fan: "No, THANK you!".) It's a kick. So I got my Jay and Melinda autographs for my bud. Yay, halfway through with my assignment. And only one near disaster (thank the gods I caught Musetta and had her sign her TWO pictures yesterday!) Next up was Darien. Now, I actually have real notes about Darien's costume. A bud wrote that she appreciates that I "try" to describe people's clothes. So...Darien wore a top that was red on top with brown material below her breasts and then red again on her belly. She had a greeny olivish skirt with up and down lines of patterns on it worn underneath the purple patterned overskirt. She wore black buttons and black boots. Oddly enough-this is a correct description. Look here on Mary D's site: http://ausxip.com/conventions/03pasadena/lauren/darien14.JPG It reminded me of when Allison Wall came out a few years ago wearing a VERY colorful dress-kind of an almost patchwork swirly pattern in multiple colors. And she kind of pranced up to the apron of the stage, holding the very full skirt out to the sides with her hands and saying, "Do you like my dress? I made it myself." You know, I see here that I had a short note about Danielle's top that says, "Reminds me of a steamer trunk." (WHY it's on the page with Darien's clothes instead of with Danielle's notes, I don't know.) But it did look like that to me-check out her picture on Mary D's page-doesn't her shirt look like it's covered with destination labels? Or the more modern prosaic equivalent-the patches on the backpacks of students collected on their first trek through Europe in the 60's. The first thing Darien said was "I feel like I'm coming home." Then she thanked us for all the support we have given her over the last few years. She said, "You got me through a lot." One fan called out asking what Cyrene thought of her daughter-in-law. Darien gave her a very baffled look. The fan repeated it and Darien still looked confused. A person near the front said something to her and then finally she realized what the question meant. And she smiled and said, "Oh, Gabrielle. She's a lovely girl." She said she wanted to read us a poem she had written for Kevin. She said, "I'll try not to cry". It started off, "Hey Kev!" It was about his ways and his life and how she missed him just so much. Something came up about her granddaughter Eve and she said something about Xena letting her wife Gabrielle take care of the nappies. (Talk about stereotyping...) Darien then talked about traveling with her son, how great it was to be able to do that. Fan: "How did you feel when you caught Xena making out on the couch with Ares?" Darien: "Jealous." She writes songs and has recorded a couple of cd's. I remember that she also said something about since she was the mother of Xena she was therefore the mother of all of us. Well, that concept anyway. It made me smile. Later a bud said that Darien really reminds her of Eddie from Ab Fab-and I have to agree-there is a marked resemblance between them. Wild hair, wild clothes, physically small. When I went through the autograph line for Darien later, I thanked her for the post she wrote to us after 9-11 that she sent to many lists. When I thanked her, her face crumpled into pain and sympathy. There was absolutely no artifice about her, just true concern. Next up was Meighan Desmond who played "Discord". Some of the folks who had never seen her before were very surprised at how young she was. She's a very self-possessed young lady. If a character has been killed off on the show, fans often ask how the actors feel about that. Meighan said, "If you've got to go, you might as well be decapitated by Xena". She sounded right proud of her fate. She said that first she was supposed to play Ares' daughter (I think this was on Hercules.) And then she was going to be his niece, I think she said. And then they decided to make her a god. (Godlet?) And eventually they settled on her being "Discord". I don't know a great deal about Discord since she wasn't on Xena very much. She was on Hercules more. She said her favorite Xena ep that she worked on was Married With Fishsticks. That it was just so much fun to make-they all had a ball with it. She admired that it was so way off on a tangent. She said that was a really neat thing about XWP and Hercules-how daring and original the creators were. That they constantly pushed the envelope and were not afraid to do really outrageous things. She was surprised when she found out that Married With Fishsticks was rated so low. She decided that it must have been because there was no Xena in it and that really hurt its popularity with fans. (Don't glare at ME! That's what she said!) She talked about acting and how hard it is to find jobs and to keep working. (You know, it just struck me that going to LA to do a con is an excellent strategy for actors looking for work. I wonder if that's not part of why the big Xena cons are always in the LA area-because being paid to go there gets you where the action is. And so this is an added inducement for the New Zealand and Australian actors to take the trip to be at the LA con and so cover some of their expenses when job-hunting.) Next-always one of the highlights of the cons for me-Hudson. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:44:59 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Hudson Hudson came out wrapped in opaque Saran Wrap. Well, at least it looked like that. Either that or her skin is now silver. She was chewing gum. She could barely walk in the dress, it was so tight. So she kind of stiffly stomped across the stage with her legs spread apart, holding the dress taut. Then she snapped the skirt. Then she snapped it again. Then she snapped her gum. She was obviously enjoying herself already. Someone yelled out asking if her mother was here. And Hudson said that she hoped not. Because her mother could be a little (I honestly don't remember the word she used--"Motherly" would work.) She imitated a "Are you listening to me?" momma voice as she intoned, "That's NOT how you do it, Heidi." (Heidi is her real first name. Hudson is her mother's maiden [AKA "real"] name, I believe she said.) Then she was asked to do her yell, as always. At first she demurred and pouted that she didn't want to do it. But then she gave in and asked, "With the mike or without it?" which caused a big laugh. Then she asked, "With my gum or without it?" She took the gum out of her mouth which caused a frisson of joy in some members of the audience. She looked at them with a somewhat disgusted smirk and said, "I'm not auctioning off my gum. (Pause) But you may take a picture of my toe." And she thrust her toe at us, said toe peeking out of her open-toed shoes, so people could. Then she looked down at her tight, tight no-pocket dress and said, "Where can I put my gum?" Finally, she bent over and parked her gum on her toe so she could do her yell unfettered. And then she screamed. And then she put her gum back in her mouth. And said something like, "It's not disgusting. It's MY toe." Hudson had taught a yoga class that morning. The class cost $100. Some of the fans called out to her that they had enjoyed the class very much. Hudson talked about how relaxing and how good for one doing yoga is. A number of people cheered and applauded her. I didn't know anyone personally who had taken the class, so I have no info on it. There were two long banners hanging on either side of the stage with pictures of the characters played by the stars who were at the con. (Looked kind of like totem poles but two-dimensional ones.) They were really kewl-I think they were just about the best decorations I've seen at any of the cons. The stars each signed on their character when they finished their set. What a souvenir There was one fan who kept coming up to the mike to ask each star about the violence in the show and how they dealt with that, how it affected their real lives. She got varying answers from each of them. It was obvious that many of the fans were getting impatient with her persistent repeating of this one question. Personally, I didn't get why someone would watch a show with so much violence and go to a con for a show with so much violence when they found so much violence so upsetting. And this fan asked Hudson the same question. Hudson just looked at her for second, then pointed to the picture of Callisto on the banner and said, "Callisto". Then she pointed to herself and said, "Hudson". And then she turned and walked away to the other side of the stage. Hudson was asked what her favorite dress was of all the ones she had worn to various cons. She looked thoughtful as she considered the question. Folks in the audience made a few suggestions. "The red one!" seemed to be the audience's favorite. But Hudson was having none of that. She said she wasn't going to say it was the red one just because we wanted her to. She teased around for a while. And then she said, "Ohhhhh, probably the red one..." So then she did her usual auction of the dress off her back. She made $1500 for the James Ellis Foundation. The winner went up on stage and got thanked with a kiss. Then Hudson began tormenting a friend of hers who was in the audience. This was another fun thing about our Siberian seats. We were in row D, but the first three rows in front of us were empty. Which made me very happy-what a bonus-a clear sight line to the stage. Sadly though, we shortly realized that whenever stars went on stage, their guests would come out and sit in those seats. Like Tim and Melinda's partners and children. And this friend of Hudson's. Hudson talked about how they had met while dancing. I think that it was at a dance class. Hudson badgered her friend until she finally gave in and got up on stage with her, after peeling off her jacket and handing it to the man who was sitting beside her. Then Hudson made the woman turn around and show us her butt. Hudson said, "Isn't that great! Don't you just want to bite it? I did. First time I saw her, I ran up to her and bit her butt. And then I said, 'Hey-do you wanna be my friend?'" And Hudson put on this maniacal, huge wide-mouthed smile and nodded her head wildly and hopefully, imitating herself that day. Then she talked about how they would always dance together at that place. And Hudson grabbed the woman and pulled her close and then put her hand on her butt and clutched it as she stared moodily and sexually over her shoulder at us. And she said something about how all the guys always gave them "strange looks." The friend was an enormously good sport. Grin. Then Hudson suddenly abandoned her and ran backstage, "To get into something more comfortable." The woman looked out at the audience and smiled at us. Anita Ellis had come out when Hudson was auctioning off the dress. So she took over and began to joke about Hudson. She said something like, "You know what she really likes? Guys in 'whitie tighties'. Ask her about 'whitie tighties' when she comes back." Hudson came running out in her "something a little more comfortable" which was a pink, sparkly, tight dress. Well, about three-quarters of a dress. There was a long slit up the front of the dress which opened into a wide triangular gap, running from Hudson's crotch to the ground. At least she could walk in this one. As she pranced around and posed for us, she said that the dress was giving her a "Marilyn Moment". You know, that's something that just struck me. Hudson is definitely the most active of all the folks who appear at the cons. Most of the folks actually talk to us, about the show, about their characters, about their lives. Hudson never does-she always performs an act instead. And in the course of the act, she moves from one side of the stage to the other, she postures, she often literally rolls across the stage, she squats down, she pulls the winners of the auctions up on stage with her, she often plays with her image on the big screen, etc. Last year she turned her back to us and the camera and then bent over and stuck her butt up towards the camera lens and then waggled it around, laughing and commenting as she watched the five foot high image of her butt on the big screen. Back in the present, she offered us her gum. And then she offered us her dress. As the bidding got higher, Hudson smiled at one of the bidders and said, "I'd flash you but THEY'D all look", tipping her head to indicate the rest of us. The "Marilyn" dress went for $1500 also. As always, Hudson put on a great show. She is just so damn funny and outrageous. She also raised $3,000 for the charity of her choice. And having done her job for the day, away she pranced. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 13:52:09 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 07 March 2003 00:05, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > > Hmmm. Interesting. This is one of those cases where we have different > > perceptions of the same 'reality' - or rather, we've both seen the same > > episode, we interpret it in very different ways. Actually, I'll admit, > > the > > part played by Hrothgar's sister is wide open to different > > interpretations, > > partly because there's a *lot* of information we haven't got - like, what > > did > > Beowulf tell her, and how did Beowulf and Xena escape the castle..... > > > > I really can't be sure on the subject of the sister. I guess my liking > > for > > intrigue makes me like the idea she's playing a double game.... > > I do wish we could have had just a little more background about what > happened to Xena while she was Waltheia. It is an intriquing mystery. Too > bad we didn't have a 4 parter with the third about Waltheia. I'm sure > there could have been some action in that story to make a viable episode. I'm not sure - I think a whole episode with Xena 'not herself' would be rather hard to take. I know we had that already, in 'Chakram', and that was okay because we had the others - Ares and Amarice and - oh yeah, Gabby - to occupy the time, but I was so overjoyed when she got 'herself' back in the fight at the end. But in the Ring trilogy, without Gabby or Beowulf (or Brunnhilde) and unable to be herself, I would have found it difficult to watch. > > My impression was that Walthea was, shall we say, content to marry > > Hrothgar, > > until she started having flashes. Why do you say it was 'based on a > > fraud'? Because Hrothgar allegedly lied to her? But I wonder what > > lies he > > could have told her - presumably she would have started to remember > > things again from shortly after the 'ring' occasion. So what would be > > the fraud? > > > And many people I think have had perfectly satisfactory marriages of > > convenience. > > People who are content with marriages of convience usually know what they > are getting into beforehand. Waltheia obviously did see the marriage as > one of convience, she said as much. Hrothgar however certainly had other > ideas and Waltheia seemed none to pleased about the prospects. A marriage of convenience does not necessarily preclude sex. ;) Again, we don't know any of the background, but (from Walthea's attitude when we first saw her) presumably she had agreed to marry Hrothgar and didn't at that time find the prospect too uninviting. She'd known Hrothgar for a year, and while she'd lost her memory she hadn't lost her intelligence - so surely she would know what sort of person Hrothgar was, and found him acceptable. I very much doubt if his wedding night was the first time in a year that a Viking chief like Hrothgar would have got drunk. ;) > As for lies, he told her she was in a shipwreck, which according to > Beowulf, Hrothgar knew was a lie. Beowulf certainly implies that Hrothgar > was trying to take advantage of Xena. Perhaps there was more than just the > shipwreck lie here but we just don't know. Of course, we know nothing at all of the circumstances in which Hrothgar found Xena. So while we have to take Beowulf's statement at face value, it would be interesting to know more. Maybe not a whole episodes worth, but maybe 5 minutes could have been devoted to the backstory. > Yes she did seem quite happy > while riding her cow so perhaps she had some genuine affection for > Hrothgar. That seemed to fade rapidly at the reception and by the time the > wedding night rolled around Waltheia was seething if the way she was > brushing her hair was any indication. > > CherylA Hmm, yes. Interesting that her subconscious waited a year to do its stuff. Maybe it was the heightened tension brought about by imminent marriage, or maybe it was the appearance of Beowulf, that prompted her to start to switch back to her old character. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:48:16 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/6/03 1:04:05 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: Cande said: << Waltheia/Xena didn't love > Hrothgar. It was a marriage based on a fraud and I think eventually > Waltheia would have snapped. My impression was that Walthea was, shall we say, content to marry Hrothgar, until she started having flashes. Why do you say it was 'based on a fraud'? Because Hrothgar allegedly lied to her? But I wonder what lies he could have told her - presumably she would have started to remember things again from shortly after the 'ring' occasion. So what would be the fraud? And many people I think have had perfectly satisfactory marriages of convenience. >> I'd be curious as to Cande's answer, though I must say I agree Xena might've "snapped," too. I'm not so concerned about the "fraud" part, unless it's Hrothgar's supporting the illusion that Walthea had value beyond his own gratification. It's very possible Walthea would've been grateful to Hrothgar regardless of where/how he found her, given that she could've ended up in worse circumstances than a castle. Problem is, I don't think she could've stood Hrothgar himself. Clearly she wasn't physically attracted to him, yet he finally revealed himself as clearly more interested in her physically, than in any talents or "vision" she could bring as an equal at his side. In some "marriages of convenience," the spouses may have someone "on the side" for their pleasures, and each gets to fulfill themselves in other ways because of something their spouse brings to the partnership. Walthea discovered two minutes after they exchanged vows that Hrothgar saw her as nothing more than a trophy wife, sex toy and possibly brood mare -- something to be seen but not heard. She did not accept that contentedly. If she almost tore her hair out on their wedding night, without even experiencing yet what she might've feared, I can well imagine her frustrations reaching a boiling point pretty quickly. And that's without figuring in that's she actually Xena underneath. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:53:45 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/7/03 6:58:11 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << I think a whole episode with Xena 'not herself' would be rather hard to take. I know we had that already, in 'Chakram', and that was okay because we had the others - Ares and Amarice and - oh yeah, Gabby - to occupy the time, but I was so overjoyed when she got 'herself' back in the fight at the end. But in the Ring trilogy, without Gabby or Beowulf (or Brunnhilde) and unable to be herself, I would have found it difficult to watch. >> LOL! My sentiments exactly. I got used to the look-alikes. I tolerated the Xena-lite eps. But watching Xena when she'd "lost" herself (so to speak)? For some reason, that was even more challenging for me. Interesting for a few minutes. Nice to think it gave Lucy something else to do. Still, for me, challenging. :-) << She'd known Hrothgar for a year, and while she'd lost her memory she hadn't lost her intelligence - so surely she would know what sort of person Hrothgar was, and found him acceptable. I very much doubt if his wedding night was the first time in a year that a Viking chief like Hrothgar would have got drunk. ;) >> Hmmm, guess I'd assumed it was one of those "keep up appearances" things -- e.g., champerones, courting and courtly manner befitting a king, but otherwise separate lives. Viking or not -- I figured he was putting his best foot forward in public and that they didn't have much time alone in private. She did "womanly" things with the ladies. He did "manly" things with the men. Otherwise, why not have his way with her from the get-go or go thru the pretense of public marriage, unless some kind of propriety was expected? That's the part "Walthea" probably bought into, with little to suggest otherwise. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:45:36 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > Hmm, yes. Interesting that her subconscious waited a year to do its stuff. > Maybe it was the heightened tension brought about by imminent marriage, or > maybe it was the appearance of Beowulf, that prompted her to start to switch > back to her old character. > Perhaps it was her subconcious kicking in because she was about to make a life changing decision. She was about to become Waltheia permenantly - marriage, a home, responsibilities, maybe children. Xena perhaps decided to try to break through before she was lost all together. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 05:12:55 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 07 March 2003 22:53, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: (snips) > << She'd known Hrothgar for a > year, and while she'd lost her memory she hadn't lost her intelligence - so > surely she would know what sort of person Hrothgar was, and found him > acceptable. I very much doubt if his wedding night was the first time in > a year that a Viking chief like Hrothgar would have got drunk. ;) >> > > Hmmm, guess I'd assumed it was one of those "keep up appearances" things -- > e.g., champerones, courting and courtly manner befitting a king, but > otherwise separate lives. Viking or not -- I figured he was putting his > best foot forward in public and that they didn't have much time alone in > private. She did "womanly" things with the ladies. He did "manly" things > with the men. Otherwise, why not have his way with her from the get-go or > go thru the pretense of public marriage, unless some kind of propriety was > expected? That's the part "Walthea" probably bought into, with little to > suggest otherwise. > > > -- Ife Hmm, I'm not so sure. This was a Viking castle, not the French court. What I'm getting at is, there would be, I imagine, much less emphasis on etiquette and much less room for people to be unaware of the details of each other's lives and even their personal habits. I doubt if there would be a very sharp distinction between 'public' and 'private' in a Viking castle. So, I agree, Hrothgar probably would have been civil to Wealthea (he was courting her, after all), but I doubt very much whether she could have remained ignorant of the type of character he was - and I mean his good and bad points. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #67 *************************************