From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #64 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, March 5 2003 Volume 03 : Number 064 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr > [Xwpacolyte@aol.co] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #63 ["Cheryl Ande" > ["Cheryl Ande" > [cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 03 March 2003 06:36, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > All in all, I think Lucy had a heck of challenge playing that "lost > essence" thing (which I'm not sure Xenastaff were entirely clear about). > It seemed a combination of what Xena thought and was told was appropriate > for someone in her situation, what she instinctively did, what she vaguely > felt in memory flashes, and what her observations and logic suggested were > "right." It was as though Xena felt the same emptiness she did in Chakram, > but with more inner conflict about what might be missing. > > -- Ife I think it was all summed up in her standing up to Odin, "He says your name is Odin, but I don't know you from your horse". The words are pure Xena. The expression on her face is that of someone determined but rather apprehensive about what might be about to happen (and maybe rather alarmed at her own boldness). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:40:03 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] XENA DVDs - no, seriously! In a message dated 3/3/03 11:20:54 PM Central Standard Time, "Xena Torres" writes: << COMING TO DVD It looks as if Xena: Warrior Princess starring Lucy Lawless and Hercules: The Legendary Journeys will be hitting the DVD shelves soon. Anchor Bay Entertainment has bought the home video rights. >> There seem to be several sites taking pre-orders now, including Amazon.com. My daughter has ordered season sets of several sci-fi/fantasy TV shows on DVD from PlayCentric-- http://www.playcentric.com/ -- and they do seem to be offering the Xena Season One set for preorder at the best price I've found online. My daughter also advises: <> <> XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:49:25 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/3/03 11:20:54 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << > That night Xena in her tent is confronted by Gabrielle's spirit. She asks > if > she is demon. "No", says Gabrielle, "I'm the truth of who you are." Then > Gabby reaches out to stroke Xena's face and the distraught woman starts in > fright. >> The exact quote according to Whoosh is: << X: "Are you a demon? Or my own mind made mad?" Vision of G: "I am the truth of who you are. Our souls are united, Xena." >> Something about Xena's line always sounded familiar to me. Was it maybe from Charles Dickins' "A Christmas Carol" or maybe the filmed version of it? You know, the part where Scrooge meets the ghost the first time? XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:52:40 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/4/03 3:11:16 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Monday 03 March 2003 06:36, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > All in all, I think Lucy had a heck of challenge playing that "lost > essence" thing (which I'm not sure Xenastaff were entirely clear about). > It seemed a combination of what Xena thought and was told was appropriate > for someone in her situation, what she instinctively did, what she vaguely > felt in memory flashes, and what her observations and logic suggested were > "right." It was as though Xena felt the same emptiness she did in Chakram, > but with more inner conflict about what might be missing. > > -- Ife I think it was all summed up in her standing up to Odin, "He says your name is Odin, but I don't know you from your horse". The words are pure Xena. The expression on her face is that of someone determined but rather apprehensive about what might be about to happen (and maybe rather alarmed at her own boldness). cr >> Oh, yes, a "defining moment" indeed. Really showed the gap between what she'd been told or had assumed, what she didn't "know" in terms of her own experiences, and what she was feeling -- another source of apprehension. I also loved the rather imperial way she said, "All right, then," when she'd convinced everyone to put down their arms before her talk with Odin. Kind of the Xena I knew, but without the somewhat aloof certainty born of experience and leadership. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:52:36 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 3/4/03 9:51:04 AM Central Standard Time, Xwpacolyte@aol.com writes: << << X: "Are you a demon? Or my own mind made mad?" Vision of G: "I am the truth of who you are. Our souls are united, Xena." >> Something about Xena's line always sounded familiar to me. Was it maybe from Charles Dickins' "A Christmas Carol" or maybe the filmed version of it? You know, the part where Scrooge meets the ghost the first time? >> Hmmm. Reminds me of something from Shakespeare too -- "Othello"? "Hamlet"? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:13:57 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #63 > From: IfeRae@aol.com > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> >> > What's ironic is that this much of this "disconnect" can be traced back to > Xena. Remember, it was her influence that convinced Odin to adopt her "So > what if they died uncessessarily? They still did it in your name" attitude > and to depose the leader who captain who taught the valkaries compassion and > honor. The valkaries' uncaring selfishness reflects the spirit Xena left > them with, which is another old wrong she must set right. Yes I agree this is Xena's legacy - a contempt for heroism. The valkaries are only going through the motions and are completely self-absorbed. > > > Yes, another ironic scene. I might've laughed more, if hadn't also been so > poignant. I think howver this Xena doesn't say anthing that the "real" Xena wouldna't have said. I think the real Xena would have felt that Wiglef was foolsih to believe that needless fighting gave life meaning. Said said in The Ring that she now appreciated peace and love more than fighting. > > I wondered if somehow Xena wasn't having flashes of memory, rather than it > being Gabrielle's spirit. But I suppose "spirit" could be interpreted in > many ways -- all of them fitting. I think it was part memory and part spirit. Gabrielle may well ahve been ina dreamscape and trying to reach Xena. >> > Hmmm, not sure if I agree with that. The way she was brushing her hair when > she awaited her new husband, her attempts to fend him off, her impulse to > help Beowulf in the castle, the sneer that finally came out when she defeated > Waltraub all suggested to me someone who was repressing fighting back > physically, not someone who didn't have it in her. True, maybe initiating it > - -- especially for no good reason or when there might be other options, wasn't > "natural" to Xena's core. But her "essence" was defending and protecting, > which Gabrielle's spirit reinforced. I think that was also an essential part > of who she was that she lost, along with understanding the "meaning" of > violence in a warrior for the greater good. > I am never sure what part violence palys in Xena's core personality. When she loses her memory the first thing that goes is the violence - her bravery and her goodness stay. I still think the violence is the result of her experiences. I agree however that when Xena is brushing her hair she seems to be on the verge of somekind of breakdown and Hrothgar may have been mighty lucky to have missed his wedding night. > > > All in all, I think Lucy had a heck of challenge playing that "lost essence" > thing (which I'm not sure Xenastaff were entirely clear about). It seemed a > combination of what Xena thought and was told was appropriate for someone in > her situation, what she instinctively did, what she vaguely felt in memory > flashes, and what her observations and logic suggested were "right." It was > as though Xena felt the same emptiness she did in Chakram, but with more > inner conflict about what might be missing. Perhaps the essence that was missing besides her love for Gabrielle was Xena's clarity of purpose. Xena always knows what she wants and seldom is at anyone's beck and call. While under the curse Xena is obviously convinced to marry someone she doesn't love and seems very willing to be lead around by Beowulf. a stranger to her. Xena is strangely malleable and directionless. She is doing everyone's bidding perhaps that is what is meant when it is said she has lost her sense of self. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:28:23 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > > Interesting point - I'd somehow assumed for no very good reason that Beowulf > was one of the party. I think it makes more sense if Beowulf, as you say, > just arrives to warn the guy off. > > However, I've just read the transcript - Beowulf knew the guy's name. And > when Lord Erick gets barbecued Beowulf yells 'to the ship' and mentions to > Wiglaf returning with them to Denmark. So I think he must have been with > the party. Why he chose this moment to warn Erick off I don't know, I just > have to assume that he'd already warned Erick and Erick dhad ignored him. I had the impression that Beowulf was trying to stop Erick. I didn't think he was with Erick's party but he well may have been. It is possible that Beowulf had enlisted the knight to help him rescue Gabby only to discover that he planned on trying to breach the fire himself. That's why the remaining knights followed Beowuld to the ship. > > > It was indeed rather disquieting. On the other hand, Hrothgar did have some > reason to be disconcerted by Walthea's apparent distraction at the ceremony, > which probably pushed him into being a bit more assertive than he might > otherwise have been. But it was probably expected of a husband and a king > in those days. He may not have been the brightest bulb in the place, but he > could certainly tell that Walthea was hiding something from him. True Hrothgar was probably acting the lord and master becuse of the pressure he was under. He was dealing with an irate sister and a new wife who seemed less than thrilled to be married. he also according to Beowulf told Waltheia a number of lies so he might have been feeling just a bit defesive too. > > That's an interesting set-up. What did Beowulf tell her? Did he tell her > a phony story? Or did he tell her the truth and she double-crossed him? > Or did they pre-arrange the whole thing? Or did she set the capture up > *and* make their escape easy without telling Beowulf what she was going to > do? I don't think he told her the truth that would have been dangerous. I think he used the sister knowing she would betray him and Xena. he planned to escape from the guards taking Xena with him. She afterall had no choice but go with Beowulf. > Actually, I believe him when he says that about loving Walthea until the end > of his life. I think he really was genuine. Perhaps he did love Waltheia but he certainly didn't ask for an explainations. Yet his reaction would be typical of the pperiod. You are right a wife's honor especially a king's wife had to be beyond reproach. For any man to be found alone with a king's woife in a bedchamber would have been fatal. > > She may well have reasoned that Beowulf and > Walthea, escaped and fleeing the country, were less risk than expecting > Hrothgar to go through with their execution the next day. > I think she honestly wanted Waltheia dead. With her dead there was no danger that Hrothgar would forgive his wife and also it gave her leverage over her brother. Nope I think this gal was four star bitch. > > > So did the fans... remember the raves about that white fur costume of hers? > ;) Indeed Lucy looked stunning. I can't blame one of those guys for standing at attention when Xena entered. > > > And another amazing costume for Xena to wear. LL looked stunning striding > through the waves in that white dress. The white dress was amazing. She rolled around in the sand, fought valkaries in it and the dress never had a spot of dirt on it. It reinded me of the old Alex Guiness movie The Man In The White Suit - a man invents a fabric that never gets dirty or wears out and every clothing manufacturer wants to destroy it. > > > > I loved the way she said that - bold, but rather apprehensive at the same > time. It might have been Xena saying it but I think it was Wealthea > reacting to it. > That was great scene. There's a nice merging of Xena and Waltheia there. > I think she would have got her way. Hrothgar was rather coarse, I suppose > one could say brutish, but not, I think, evil. I'm sure that Xena's > strength of character would have overcome him in any battle of wills. > Perhaps Waltheia would have tamed Hrothgar but I think to that Waltheia would have had to truly love her husband. Waltheia/Xena didn't love Hrothgar. It was a marriage based on a fraud and I think eventually Waltheia would have snapped. > What I did miss in this episode was Brunnhilde. I kept hoping she'd reappear > from the flames. I suppose that was a non-reversible reaction. Too bad, I > liked her. > Yeah I missed her too. CherylA > cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:47:53 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Sunday 02 March 2003 22:30, Cheryl Ande wrote: > The story opens at Gabrielle's fire ring one year after the events of The > Ring. It is obvious Gabrielle has become a legend and now every arrogant > knight with a death wish just can't wait to prove he's the guy to wake the > sleeping beauty. A Norse noble man is next in line. Beowulf arrives to > warn him that his attempt is futile; only Gabrielle's soul mate can breach > the fire and awaken her. Interesting point - I'd somehow assumed for no very good reason that Beowulf was one of the party. I think it makes more sense if Beowulf, as you say, just arrives to warn the guy off. However, I've just read the transcript - Beowulf knew the guy's name. And when Lord Erick gets barbecued Beowulf yells 'to the ship' and mentions to Wiglaf returning with them to Denmark. So I think he must have been with the party. Why he chose this moment to warn Erick off I don't know, I just have to assume that he'd already warned Erick and Erick dhad ignored him. > Beowulf has painful evidence of this, his scared > hand. He also tried to warn the knight of another danger. The knight is > contemptuous of Beowulf but when the monster Grindhilda appears behind him, > Beowulf's dire warnings are confirmed. The monster literally rips the > knight's limb from limb. Did that remind anyone of the moment at the end of 'Aliens' when Bishop (the android) was suddenly attacked from behind by the alien? Very, very similar. And very effective to. > As Waltraut > examines the dead "heroes" for gold teeth her friend says the Brunhilda > certainly thought enough of her to turn herself into a flame. She also > suggests that Xena certainly seemed to think a lot of Gabrielle. This so > enrages Waltraut that she immediately drops the hero she's carrying like a > sack of hay. That poor extra! I hope he got a bonus for that. ;) > Waltraut says that she doesn't want to hear that "conniving > bitch's name" besides she's dead and is "feeding the fishes". I found this > scene ghoulishly funny. The valkaries go on and on about the dead being > heroes but treat them like so much rubbish. There is such a disconnect > between their words and actions that it is shocking and amusing. One can > see that the valkarie have certainly lost the spirit of compassion that > Grindhilda had. What was the line - "Odin wants the best of these in Valhalla by nightfall". Not really the most respectful way to refer to the dead. > This is a strangely disquieting scene. We have never seen Xena so > vulnerable as we do here. She is almost on the verge of being taken by > force and yet she does nothing to defend herself except forcefully push her > husband off her (Hrothgar seemed a bit surprised at the force of that > push). It was indeed rather disquieting. On the other hand, Hrothgar did have some reason to be disconcerted by Walthea's apparent distraction at the ceremony, which probably pushed him into being a bit more assertive than he might otherwise have been. But it was probably expected of a husband and a king in those days. He may not have been the brightest bulb in the place, but he could certainly tell that Walthea was hiding something from him. > Indeed the audience is just waiting for Xena to pummel the guy but > it doesn't happen. Instead it is Beowulf who rescues Walthea with a timely > interruption. Walthea seems relived to be saved from her husband's amorous > intentions and beer breath (watch Walthea's little wave of her hand when > the king backs way from her). This of course implies that Walthea hasn't been drinking herself. > She however doesn't remember Beowulf even > when prompted by him. As she is lead away by her husband her sister-in-law > approaches Beowulf. She is a bit sympathetic to Beowulf and asks for his > story. That's an interesting set-up. What did Beowulf tell her? Did he tell her a phony story? Or did he tell her the truth and she double-crossed him? Or did they pre-arrange the whole thing? Or did she set the capture up *and* make their escape easy without telling Beowulf what she was going to do? > That night a very angry and disturbed Walthea awaits her husband in their > bridal chamber. From the expression of Walthea's face this will be night > to remember but not in a good way. In her chamber comes a man wearing the > veil her husband wore at the wedding. A cold wife meets her husband but > she is shocked when Beowulf reveals himself. Walthea is now truly frighten > is alone in her bedroom with a strange man, this could mean her death. > Beowulf tried to explain to Xena that Odin is trying to kill her, that he > knows she is in Denmark and that she is needed to save her friend > Gabrielle. BEOWULF: Xena, your life is in danger. When Odin learns you are alive, he will kill you and Gabrielle will never be saved. Interesting, and in total contrast to Brunnhilde's assertion to Xena in the previous ep that nobody would hurt her. Obviously Brunnhilde and Beowulf have very different views on this one. > Walthea is confused but a bit of the old Xena is still there > and when Beowulf approaches her she tosses him on the bed. This is > unfortunately a bad move because this is when Hrothgar and his sister break > into the bedroom. Caught in a compromising position. Walthea is devoiced > and condemned to death along with Beowulf. HROTHGAR: We were as brothers, Beowulf. (hits him and then faces Xena) I would have loved you until the end of my lifetime. Now it seems it'll only be until the end of yours. Dispose of them as you choose. Actually, I believe him when he says that about loving Walthea until the end of his life. I think he really was genuine. I notice he didn't actually condemn them to death, just left it to his sister. But in those days, certainly in England and I imagine in most European societies, for a queen to 'betray' her husband was tantamount to high treason. For much stronger reasons than ordinary jealousy; the royal succession depended on the legitimacy of the king's heirs and civil wars could happen if it was called into question. (This is why Henry the 8th had so many wives - it wasn't randiness, he could have had as many mistresses as he liked without causing comment, but he desperately needed a legitimate male heir for the sake of the stability of the kingdom. It was just ironic and against all the odds that his female heir, Elizabeth the First had the wisdom and strength of character to rule as queen and stay in control). So anyway, Hrothgar's sentence on them was no more than could have been expected. > In the corridor Xena and Beowulf are being led to the dungeons. Beowulf > attacks the guards as Xena watches. he seems to handily defeat them when > one gets behind him and the old Xena suddenly appears. She takes Beowulf > down and saves him from beheading. Beowulf now has clue to how to bring > Xena back. When she or someone else is threatened, Xena's fighting skills > kick in. Walthea also has a revelation in the corridor, when Beowulf takes > her hand she has a vision of Gabrielle telling her that she is lost without > Xena. I'm in two minds about the part played by Hrothgar's sister Hildegyth in this, as I suggested before. On the one hand she did lead Hrothgar to catch them. On the other, Beowulf and Xena do seem to have escaped very easily. I wonder whether Hildegyth set it up or made their escape easier, either with or without Beowulf's knowledge. She may well have reasoned that Beowulf and Walthea, escaped and fleeing the country, were less risk than expecting Hrothgar to go through with their execution the next day. > Xena is now with Beowulf on a ship heading to the Norselands. She looks > every inch a noble lady. There is nothing that would remotely suggest she > is a warrior. When she enters the rowing area the oarsman to a man gawk > at her. So did the fans... remember the raves about that white fur costume of hers? ;) > On shore disconsolate Xena stands in the waves contemplating the strange > things happening to her. As she comes ashore Wiglaf and another soldier > fight over who will give Xena water. And another amazing costume for Xena to wear. LL looked stunning striding through the waves in that white dress. > Xena, although she won't fight, does an > excellent job of avoiding Waltraut's attack much the valkarie's > frustration. Odin now appears and calls off Waltraut. He now questions > Xena. Xena stands up to him and fearlessly answers his questions - she > knows him to be Odin simply because Waltraut said his name. As for her she > doesn't know him from his horse. I loved the way she said that - bold, but rather apprehensive at the same time. It might have been Xena saying it but I think it was Wealthea reacting to it. > The fight is done Beowulf urges Xena to go to Gabrielle but he shockingly > impaled by Grindhilda. Ah. Now I remember. *That* was the 'Aliens' moment I was thinking of! Just as the fight is over, and without any warning at all. Bishop was impaled from behind by the Alien's tail and lifted high in the air; Beowulf was impaled from behind by Grinhilda's finger and also lifted high in the air. Truly shocking and surprising and yet totally credible, both times. > Beowulf says good-bye to his friend Xena and his beloved Gabrielle. > Gabrielle thanks Brunhilda's spirit for protection. Then she mount behind > Xena and the three women fly off on the magic horses. Some more of those glorious 'sky' scenes, IIRC. Visually, this three-parter was the best of Season Six, I think. > In Valhalla Xena marched into the banquet hall. A stunned Odin wants to > know if Xena is returning the ring. Nope she's returning something better > - Grindhilda. Odin is suspicious what does she want. Xena says Grindhilda > should be made leader of the valkarie so she can restore their honor. Odin > says he's think about. Eve Gabrielle is stunned by his arrogance but > Xena, God Slayer, suggests he shouldn't think to long. Grindhilda get her > job back. I loved that little exchange. A true Xena moment, I think. > Frankly I don't know if a non-violent Xena is an improvement over the old > Xena. She is good and brave but without the violent impulse what good is > bravery and goodness if it can't defend itself. Certainly not as much fun to watch ;) > Would Walthea simply > become Hrothgar's submissive wife. Would have her plans for the Viking > people be thwarted by a brutish husband and hateful Sister-in-law. Perhaps > Xena's famous will would have kicked in and she would gotten her way > without being a warrior but in some other way. It's an interesting > question to me to contemplate what would have happened to Xena is Beowulf > would have never found her. I think she would have got her way. Hrothgar was rather coarse, I suppose one could say brutish, but not, I think, evil. I'm sure that Xena's strength of character would have overcome him in any battle of wills. > Beowulf emerges in this episode as a much more ruthless personality. When > he discovers that Xena is now Walthea he is bound and determined to get the > old Xena back. At first the new Xena seems to be happy and contented but > luckily her new husband turns out to be a pig so Beowulf can break up the > marriage without qualms. I think Beowulf would have done it anyway. Maybe TPTB were making the decision easier for Beowulf (or giving him a bit more justification) when they made Hrothgar into a not very likeable character. > Beowulf, however, combines his ruthlessness > with nobility. He certainly is determined to bring back the old Xena to > save Gabrielle but also he knows that he is saving Gabrielle unselfishly. > She will never be his and saving her means she will go off with another but > he does so gladly. In the end Beowulf saves both Xena and Gabrielle. Nicely put. I think you could say he's got integrity. What I did miss in this episode was Brunnhilde. I kept hoping she'd reappear from the flames. I suppose that was a non-reversible reaction. Too bad, I liked her. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #64 *************************************