From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #51 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, February 21 2003 Volume 03 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Who's Gurkhan [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy designed shirt for Breast Cancer Research [I] [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Post Cabaret and Jay [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] "Heroic" Death (Was Re: Creation's poll) [KTL >>Well maybe she did get the stuffing knocked out of her. There was a fight > scene between Gabby and someone we never saw.>> > > OK, I finally got round to dealing with this one. I knew I had read it > somewhere (that is what happens with visual memory!) I checked out the > Creation script and it goes like this..... > I've been wondering about that cut scene myself -- what they could've been fighting over. Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:09:31 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 20 February 2003 00:20, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > >> back. Her horse arrives and Xena mounts and surprisingly flies off.<< > > "This is not Argo then? ;)" > > Well no wrong color however Argo seems to cover a lot of ground perhaps she > can fly and we just never knew it. BTW here's a bit of news about about > Tilly from the latest newsletter - Tilly is with child. Apparently once > Xena ended everyone decided to have a baby. Hmm. I thought Tilly was retired. Obviously one of those early-retirement deals, then. Just shows, you can be retired without being 'past it'. (He says, hopefully). > " I liked Beowulf. Somehow or other he seemed to be trustworthy and > reliable. > He wasn't good-looking (in fact he looked a bit pudgy) but somehow he has > a bit of that ol' charisma. He was very quiet-spoken but somehow > commanded attention." > > Actually I thought he was very good-looking in a manly rugged way (never > was one for pretty boys). I thought he was every inch a hero. In fact > there once was a rumor that RT was working a series set in the Middle Ages > and I thought this actor would have made a great lead especially after he > got his own sidekick in ROTV. I wish Creations could get him for a con. Yes, he'd be perfect as a medieval knight. He just looks right for it. > > " Maybe Gabby isn't a very fast tracker... ?" > > Well Sekmet suggested that perhaps Gabby is still having trouble finding > North. I can see Gabby taking off after Xena, hitting the Mediterranean > Sea , cursing, and turning around and heading in the opposite direction LOL! Actually, if she was weeks behind, she wouldn't actually be tracking anything, she'd have to be making enquiries at inns and suchlike. > "One of *the* lines of the series, I think - "My friend is always seeking a > redemption she'll never allow herself." (Or something like that)" > > Yes that is the line and it is a great line and very perceptive of > Gabrielle. It also foreshadows FIN doesn't it. Yes, very perceptive and yes, it most certainly foreshadows FIN. > "Brunnhilde was another character I liked instantly. In fact most of the > supporting characters in this 3-parter were thoroughly likeable. You > could > include Grinhilde in that. Odin I felt was miscast but I didn't dislike > him." > > The guest cast was outstanding in these episodes. Odin I thought was good. > Yes the Odin from Hercules was more dignified but this Odin had to be more > vulnerable and bit dense and I thought the actor pulled it off. He wasn't bad, though something about his delivery - his accent or his tining - - seemed a bit odd to me. > > > "Those sky scenes were impressive. It must be very hard to do flying > horses > and make them look convincing, but these were at least passable. At > least they didn't try to give the horses wings, and just as well too. And > the sky > backgrounds were truly magnificent. (There was an enormous blue screen > at > Lion Park which must have been the one they used for the horses)." > > Oh that's interesting. So they rode the horses in fron of the blue screen > outdoors. It was a studio shot. Well they didn't dangle them from helicopters and get Flat Earth to do a wire-removal job ;) Yes, it was a blue screen, but of course in order to actually ride a horse on camera for even a few seconds, the blue screen has to be huge. And this one was. > It perhaps shows the > intriguity of the creators of the show that they never softened the young > Xena - here it is the sixth season and young Xena is as nasty as ever. Something I used to notice in cowboy Westerns was how even the villains got softer as time went by. I didn't care for that at all. A waste of good villains. XWP didn't fall into that trap. Its villains - Callisto, Caesar, Alti, EvilXena - stayed as villainous as ever. OK, Ares changed, but that was genuine character development, not just softening up a villain. > "You will be relieved to hear that I have *no* criticism of Gabby in this > three-parter ;)" > > I'm shocked but after all she is asleep for a third of the arc. (I'm so tempted to say "Well that does help" but it would be quite unfair and not true anyway. But you really shouldn't set 'em up for me like that ;) > Yeah I > like Gabrielle the most when she is Xena's defender and strong support. > > CherylA Yeah., me too. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:30:22 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy designed shirt for Breast Cancer Research In a message dated 2/19/03 10:55:02 PM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: << Darn, they could have done a Cinderella story. Gabrielle running around the known world, looking for the Breasts That Fit This Plate. And knowing once she found them that they were the ones she wanted to fall asleep on EVERY night, not just when Joxer dies. >> Bwahahahaha! And you say you don't write fanfic. Riiiiiiight. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:32:47 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Post Cabaret and Jay After the cabaret, we and about 1,000 other people went back to the hotel. As always, there were parties all over the place. We tend to be inclusive with our parties and this year we lured two new people to come play with us, along with the regular "Golden Oldies" who always hang together and play together at the con. A couple of our buddies who live nearby actually had to go to WORK the next day (shudder) and one person had just flown in that day and so was operating on East Coast time. So we had a relatively early end to the party at about 1 a.m. And as usual, I was still restless and not really wound down from being at the con. So I went downstairs to take a little walk before I went to bed. Anytime you go down to the lobby late at night (or very early in the morning) during the Xena cons, when the elevator door opens you are hit with such a massive wall of noise that it's almost palpable, almost a physical force. You just about have to brace yourself against being pushed back a step or two by the sheer volume of the sound of happy fans having fun. To the right of the elevators, as you finally screw up your courage and lunge out into the vibrating lobby, there are always about twenty people sitting on the one couch and coffee table set up between the entrance and the bar. The bar is always brim full, clotted with knots of people, with some spilling out the bar door into the lobby. To the left of the elevators near the registration area are two larger couch/armchairs/coffee table set ups. These areas are also always stuffed chock full of people. For some reason, this is where the guitar players always play. So one exits the elevator into this absolute pandemonium that the con goers have created. As always when there are so many people all lusting to talk to each other, (or some who just want to relate their own story), the noise volume increases as each individual tries to talk over everybody else. This leads to people literally screaming into each other's faces and regularly roaring out, "WHAT? Could you repeat that?" This screaming is further bolstered by the guitar players and their screeching singers whom of course the non-singers are also struggling to be heard above. (I figure they got tools of noise, so they're cheating. The rest of us are just working with our vocal chords.) You know what just struck me-I have never managed to hear what song those guys are singing. To me it's all just synchronized (more or less) mouth movements, the words forever lost in the general din. I wonder if they're all even singing the same song? Every year it's like this every night. I just LOVE going to the cons. The concierge's office is in the guitar playing area. This year, it was only at night that the screen saver on the concierge's computer was a picture of Lucy as Xena as Cleopatra. Apparently the day concierge didn't want L-X-C as her wallpaper. But the night one always put it back. (During the day of course, we are all at the con so there aren't a few hundred generally BIG people demanding to see Lucy on the computer. That might make the difference.) I walked outside looking for fresh air (snort) and a little noise respite and ran into one of my absolute best buds who was standing on the steps drinking, smoking and totally bombed. So of course, we had to chat. I got to bed about 3 a.m. And the parties in the lobby were still going strong. The cons usually run from about 1 p.m. to about 6:30 p.m. (Well, that's the schedule-we often run late at these things.) So the next afternoon, the first things on the agenda were more fan videos followed by the trivia contest and then the world premiere of the Xena Silent Movie, made by the Xenaversity folks. I generally skip the trivia contest so I hauled myself over there for the Xena silent movie. It was absolutely MARVELOUS! It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen at a con. . The creators used clips from the show which had the color drained out of them, thus making them black and white. It truly was a silent movie, with captions made up to explain the motives behind the actions we were seeing. The captions were framed with old-style picture framing, just like old silent movies really used to have. It was furken hilarious. Such excellent wit, knowledge of the show and good tempered, easy going making fun of the show and characters we all love, just like the cast and crew have done at times. There is a clip at http://www.xenaversity.com/ and the great news that they say they will be selling copies of it soon. Okay, then we had a music video salute to Draco and then Jay came out. This was his first appearance at a con and I really hope it's not his last. He was beyond hilarious. He could be a stand up comedian. One thing I noticed about him was that he "acted" through the stories he told us. He took the part of himself, his mother, the "other guy", etc. Danielle does this too-I remember during her fart story (snorting laugh) she actually leapt up and crouched back down as she told it to us. Paris also slipped into a character as she told some of the stories, so that she was actually "acting" her lines, not just speaking them as some storytellers do. She also put on a kind of ditzy, Noel Coward type of English drawing room persona. As when she would locate a fan quietly slinking back to their seat from the mike and (truly-it's an apt verb) trill out, "Oh THERE you are!" I mean she did it in the type of voice with a little artsy hand gesture that is very often followed on a stage by the immortal line, "Tennis anyone?" Lucy tends to do this also. She adopts accents and mannerisms when recounting things. Like she does in Coffee Talk 1, when Renee is talking about the initials of the characters being sewn unto the back of the actor's robes. Renee says something like, "You know, G for Gabrielle, A for Ares". And Lucy suddenly drops into a cheerleading character, putting her hands up in the air, tips of her fingers together to form the letter and chanting out "A!" as she rhythmically bounces on the bed. She also did this during the 2001 con appearance. Renee was telling about Lucy during Many Happy Returns, when she was dressed up as a guy and was hassling the crew who didn't recognize her at first. Lucy dropped into her Anthrax persona, even changing her face somewhat as she said gruffly, heartily and very fast, "Hey! Whatcha doing? How are ya?" She even imitated herself as Lucy when Renee was talking about her getting dressed for that character. She put on a goofy voice as she acted herself talking to the costume tarts, "Make me fatter, make me fatter!", demanding more pillows to be tucked into her pants. Renee does the same thing in the Making of Gurkhan tape. Lucy is lying in Renee's arms on the floor of the harem as they wait for whatever, just killing time till the crew is ready for them. Lucy is telling the story of how she always sends a former crew member grotesque things like a fake scar or the damaged, swollen fake eye she was wearing in that scene. She and Renee both get into telling it and Lucy says that's he always sucked in-he always thinks that this time, surely it's a going to be a real present. Renee hears this and then pantomimes a really excited person, getting a delighted look on their face and throwing their arms out in surprise and joy at the thought of receiving a present. Most of the other stars really don't do this that I noticed. They "tell" the story, they don't act it by becoming the characters (even when the "character" is themselves). Okay-Jay came out and of course hundreds of camera flashes went off. He is incredibly beautiful. Got a marvelous body and a very nice voice-much more mellifluous in real life than Draco's is. It's just a lovely speaking voice, good range and very expressive and lively. He grinned at us and said "Those flashing lights are almost like you're standing out on a highway." (With cars racing towards you, presumably. He didn't elaborate.) Note: Yes, I took notes on Jay. BUT he made me laugh so hard that some of it is illegible, and some of it was stuff I paraphrased as I jotted it down. Also, some of the comments were drowned out by everybody's laughter and some may be things I heard from other fans around me. (Although I do have to say, Bonnie is MUCH quieter than Mikey when watching a con. ;->) So when you guys watch the bootleg copy that will be going around the Xenaverse shortly, please keep this is mind and accept the gestalt of meaning I'm trying to convey, even if I don't quite have the exact quotes right. He talked about having been in the very first show of the series, Sins of the Past. And then not coming back until the end of season two. He said something like, "When we made that first episode, we had no idea if the show would continue, if enough people would want to watch a show like this. We were just starting this new series off and it was just this little potential show. "When I came back later BOY! they had chairs with people's names on them!" He talked about how in the time he'd been gone it had become this pop hit phenomenon, that it was now the top rated action adventure show in the world. He saw the results of this in that they had an increased budget and that there was now a huge amount of people working on the show in many departments. He told us that he really considers himself to be a musician. "But people pay me to act. Which makes me think, I must be a terrible musician." His mother badgers him to get a real job-like in accounting or like becoming a garbage collector because they have steady work (and benefits!) He talked about rehearsing his first scene on the first day with Lucy. (Which was the final fight scene, on the heads of the villagers.) He said they'd done all the rehearsals wearing their robes. So then they go to do the scene and he looks up and Lucy comes and stands in the doorway as Xena. His mouth just fell open and he said, "Is THAT what you're wearing?" And he was thinking to himself, "Where do I hit her? It's like touch football when a guy is playing with girls." And he imitated a boy trying to find a place on the girl where he can safely tag her without getting into trouble. He talked about loving doing Lyre Lyre. That he and Draco's boys got into the attitude of they were a gang, "like the Jets and the Sharks" just a real TOUGH gang. "We channeled a combination of Kiss and Ozzie Osbourne." They wanted to do everything together and they kind of became a flock-they'd all eat together and stomp off to the set together, etc. Then he laughed and said he can longer sing, "Always Something There To Remind Me" without screaming it. He talked about how when he came back for the second appearance, in Comedy of Eros, the director nonchalantly said to him, "You do ride a horse, right Jay?" (Silence as Jay makes an uh-oh, followed by a conniving face.) "Of COURSE I ride a horse" he replied. He said he figured you get up on it and just sit there and it would take you where you want to go. It somehow became apparent to them that Jay had never been on a horse in his life. They send him out to the horse wranglers who put him on this sweet little old horse who's very well trained and they ride around and around and around this paddock. So he's ready. The day of the shoot, this ENORMOUS horse comes out. Jay gets up on it (after a few aborted attempts which he acted out for us). He says that the horses on Xena were so well trained that they could actually hit marks on set. But you do have to guide them towards them. So essentially, this horse took off towards the marks s/he hit last time. So they'd run the cameras, Draco would come riding out and he was supposed to trot over to the right. Instead, the horse kept going left and hitting the old marks. Jay had no idea how to turn a horse. He said, "I kept saying, 'Let's go--this way'" and he'd kind of jerk his head over towards the right but never give her any direction with the reins at all. I think he also said he tried to talk to the horse by jerking his head towards the right direction and saying, "Neiiiiiggghhh". He finished up this story by saying there isn't a lot of footage of him riding a horse in that ep. A fan asked him about Renee and he said, "In that first ep, she was just this nice, sweet little kid. I come back and she's a mini version of Conan the Barbarian." I think someone asked him if he'd ever done a tour and he said not really. Except that he's sung in "old folk's homes", but I think that he said he did that as a kid with like church groups. He's going to play the father, King Mufasa in the Lion King (I didn't get where-I think New Zealand). He also has a part in the Matrix movie sequel. He said that to get the right tone for Mufasa, he will just think about James Earl Jones as Darth Vader and try to imitate him. "I want to say, 'Use the Force Simba--kick Scar's a$$!'" He also had a part in Lord of the Rings, playing one of the monstrous soldiers, one of the thousands of Orcs. He tried to play it like the "kind of guy you don't want to see riding up to you on his motorcycle." He talked about wanting to see himself on screen during LOTR, but how hard it is to pick one's Orc self out of a crowd of Orcs. He said he envisioned watching it and saying, "There's me! Oh no wait-THERE! That one's me. No, no, wait--it's the guy three over from him. THAT'S me." So in order to be able to pick himself out, "I skipped for just a bit during the filming So if you see one of the Orcs skipping, THAT'S me." He talked about loving the Star Wars epics and that he's now working on the next episode. He was beside himself at the thought of meeting George Lucas, because he's such a fan of George's. "Lucas is coming towards me and I'm getting myself all ready, I'm saying, 'Now, say something really cool to impress him, to let him know how great he is, how thrilled you are to meet him.' And George came up and I said, 'G'day!'. And that was it. But I KNEW I floored him. I KNEW this was going to make him write a sequel just for ME!" He talked about his first day on the Star Wars set, when he was supposed to be going around with this bunch of new folks, getting the little tour and how he suddenly saw R2D2. His FAVORITE character is Chewbacca, but "meeting" R2D2 really got him all excited. He broke away from the group and sprinted over to the little chap. He imitated whistling to him in his own language. The guy with R2D2 grinned at Jay and then explained how the top part of this version was from the original R2D2 but that how the rest was all new. The group of guys that Jay had been with had also walked over by then and they also were all excited about meeting R2D2. (I think maybe Jay might "understand" us obsessed fans better than many of the other stars do--grin) So when the other guys get there, Jay begins to explain to them that the top of R2D2 is original, but that the rest is new. One of the guys asks in stunned amazement how he KNOWS that. And Jay answers, "I did research". Then he asked if he could have a guitar. Very shortly one was brought out. Jay said, "Creation is a GREAT organization. I only have to say 'I need a guitar' and they get you one!" Then he told us that Joel Tolbeck said to say hello to us. (I wonder if he's played with Joel and that's what reminded him. Or if he just knows that Joel also plays guitar.) Then he said he wanted to send his song "out to our boys and girls overseas". And some something about how people who are trying to tolerate each other would understand this song. And he launched into "Shower the people you love with love". And DAMN what a fine singing voice he has! He said that he had always thought that Elvis was a Samoan like him. Because of how he sang. And he imitated Elvis singing "I Can't Help Falling In Love With You." And he sang it like this, "Wwwwwwhiiii whennnn whaaaaayyyyy, Wwwwwooooonleeeey wwwwwoooooools wuuush wiin-iiiin" And he said he'd be listening to it on the radio when he was little, trying to write the words down. And he'd call to his mother, "Mom! How do you spell Wwwwwwwwooon?" And she'd yell back, "Ten W's..." He got asked about playing practical jokes. And he said that there were lots of bugs on the set. And so one of his jokes one day was to take the boom mike when the sound person wasn't around, unscrew the cover and pop a fly inside the mike. So they try to get the scene and he's watching the sound guy out of the corner of his eye and he keeps stopping them and then he's running all over the set pointing his mike here and there and saying, "I don't get it. I don't understand it. I keep hearing some kind of buzz." Jay said, "I couldn't believe it but he just never figured it out. He never unscrewed the top and looked in there. And you know when a joke goes on too long how aggravating it is that they don't get it? So FINALLY, I had to go up, unscrew the mike and let the fly go. THEN of course, everybody realized it was me who had held up the production. 'Think that was funny, do ya, Jay?'", said with a very malevolent glare. He also was very proud of himself for actually getting out by himself to drive on the freeway this year, roaring down the road on the "other side" of the highway. "I DID it!" He told a story about singing in church when he was a kid. I think he was in the kid's choir. And his mother was either in the audience or in the women's choir, I'm not sure. So Jay said there they'd be singing in church and he would really get into it. And then sometimes he'd realize that he was the only one still standing and singing. That everybody else had already finished the song and sat down. So then he acted out being a kid suddenly coming aware, looking down at his sitting choir mates and realizing that he was in trouble. He ended the song with a softly drawn out sound like an accordion that's running out of air as he tried to quietly pull the plug and sit down. Then he said his mother would get all irate and would pinch the person next to her and say, "Pass that on to my son." And so everyone in church would pinch the person next to them until Jay's sister suddenly pinched him. By the time it got to him, it was a long time AFTER the song fiasco. And he said he'd turn to her outraged and she'd say, "Mom said! She passed it on to you." And then he'd look over as subtly as he could and see his mom glaring at him. (And I imagine every in church between him and his mother rubbing their arms and glaring at him also.) I don't remember laughing so much in a very long time. Jay was extraordinary. He was so good that I might actually go to a con just to see him, if I were anywhere near the venue. He is a really handsome guy, a really extroverted, happy go lucky person in public, he has a sharp intellect and an awareness of how everyday happenings can be truly hilarious. He's got a great singing voice and a lovely speaking voice. I really regret that Draco came across as kind of a cartoon. I think Jay could have really expanded the character if he had been taken more seriously. Next up: Melinda Clarke KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:29:55 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena movie poll On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, cr wrote: > > Well, I was talking only about possible Fixes for FIN and the Fixes that > > were put in whenever Xena or Gabrielle died at other times. > > So, doesn't Callisto count then? > Awwwww, sure, hon, Callisto was really really bad. Until she became really, really good and got all repulsively sweet. > > KT > > Who has no idea why Callisto wound up in hell either. > > Question: Since Xena was capable of offing Mephistopheles, howcome Callisto, > who was at least as capable as Xena so long as she stayed away from rocks, > didn't beat the big lug to a pulp and take over the place? > > cr > To quote Lawless from the season six bloopers when Ted is obliviously pushing her off her mark, "Show's called Xena." Callisto was NOT at least as capable as Xena. No one was. Or ever will be in MY little fan heart. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:50:47 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Heroic" Death (Was Re: Creation's poll) On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > Ife wrote > > > >>Yep, I was okay with FIN, but definitely wouldn't mind a happy ending > > >>that built on what happened previously and didn't jeopardize the (wasn't > > >>it 40,000?) souls. My own theory is that Yodoshi put that idea in > > >>Akemi's head, thinking he could defeat Xena if she stayed in the spirit > > >>realm. Who's to say there was any truth to it? KT replied: > > > > > >Ouch! I don't like that idea. I don't like that Xena's profound sacrifice > > >that resulted in her finally getting the redemption she'd been searching > > >for since day one was done because someone tricked her. Xena not only > > >isn't stupid, she also is excellent at sniffing out the charlatan (though > > >this skill was a little slowed down in season four). I just don't see her > > >being taken in. It's very ignoble. Not worthy of her end. To me. > > cr: > > Yeah. Me too. That would be almost as bad as fudging up a timeline so > > that FIN 'never happened'. It's cheating Xena and kinda cheating the > > viewer, too. > > > > In some shows, the hero dying as a result of a massive mistake or screw-up > > would fit right in - the end of Blakes 7 for instance, or I could even see > > it happening to Crichton in Farscape.... but it does *not* suit Xena!! > > > > I've gotta disagree with both of you. See, I don't buy that heroes (even > mythical ones) have to die for something that is massive or even reasonable > to other people. Xena routinely put her life on the line for everything from > star-crossed lovers, to situations where there was little likelihood that > she'd survive. So what if somebody "cheated" to get her killed? So what if > maybe that makes her look foolish? I can only repeat--she's too smart to be taken in by a Yodoshi's scheming. Her witchy sense would have warned her that it was bogus. And it does matter to me. The world shouldn't lose Xena because somebody tricked her. And I just can't see Xena leaving Gabrielle as a result of being tricked. Nope, she'd find her way through to the truth, especially since it was the most important moment in her life--her atonement, her completion of the path she was meant to follow from evil person to heroic soul. (and thus being reincarnated in the next life as Arminestra, the Mother of Peace.) It's a dirty little trick. And Xena's just too...XENA to be taken in by it. So what if she wasn't entirely > responsible for the tragedy at Higuchi? What?! Of course she was entirely responsible for what happened at Higuchi. Those people were protecting their dead. Any culture that has death rites also has protection in place from and for their dead. Xena was about to desecrate their graveyard. Of course they should have tried to stop her. It's required. Yes, Xena didn't MEAN to start the fire. But she did. And her being drunk does not exonerate her from being responsible for her actions. Hell, if she hadn't been drunk, she probably would have walked away anyway, laughing with evil glee as she watched the town burn. It wouldn't be the first time. Bottom line, she had a few hours to > save a town and some souls she'd been partially responsible for jeopardizing. Again, I say she was totally responsible. Akemi put her in that position, even though she surely knew the town's people wouldn't be happy over it. But Xena took on the job and then totally screwed it up by being drunk. But when did anything ever go right for Xena? > Rather than waste time worrying about the consequences to herself or her > image, she took action. > > Frankly, I liked that the situation didn't make sense. I liked that she died > as she'd lived - being the one to jump in where others would question the > value of doing so. What other characters did or didn't do was more of a > comment on them, not on her nobility or intelligence. Plot device or not, > the reason for Xena's death didn't diminish her heroism in my eyes one iota. It does in mine, because it's not worthy of her to be tricked. It's just not likely that this would happen. It truly diminishes her intelligence and cunning--she just shouldn't be taken in like that. That is just not the character we've seen for the last six years--she ALWAYS knows what's "real" and what's not. Now if this scenario was made into a movie they MAY say Xena knew it was a trick. If so, she should have told Gabrielle the minute the souls were released. Not let her suffer for so long. This is so wrong in my gut, that nothing would make me accept her being tricked as a viable and happy "Fix". > She saved the souls. Period. Anybody might've sacrificed themselves for an > obviously "legitimate" reason. Only Xena would do so *just because.* Only Xena would KNOW absolutely when it was a *just because*. And she would know absolutely when there was a skunk in realm of the dead. Without having been responsible for the death of those 40,000 souls, she would still have sacrificed herself if that was their only way out. On that we are in agreement. Because she's Xena. And "Show's called Xena". As she > said in "Tsunami" when she went back to rescue that convict, she expected > "nothing less" from herself. ACK! ACK! You KNOW I hate that phrase. That that phrase is something Xena would NEVER say. Xena would NEVER brag about how great a person she was, how much better she was than anybody else. She's DOWN on herself! Gads, I hate that phrase! It's so BOGUS! And you know that you... you... woman of a certain age you! Even if she'd finally died trying to save that > piece of crap, it would've been a good enough statement for me about what a > hero does. > > -- Ife She DID it, but she'd never say it. NO! NEVER! KT humph ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #51 *************************************