From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #48 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, February 18 2003 Volume 03 : Number 048 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Xena movie poll [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] When to place the Xena Movie [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation's poll [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] When to place the Xena Movie [meredith > ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation's poll ["Maria T. Vivoni" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:20:35 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena movie poll On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, KTL wrote: Ahhhh, the Fix for Fin. Now let's see-how many Fixes did we have to get to bring one or the other of the grrls back? First there was the one in Destiny. The Fix: Xena bites the ambrosia. Leaving endless discussions on the lists about how come this didn't make her a god like everybody else who had eaten ambrosia in the series. (That would be a good hippie bumper sticker--"Eat The Ambrosia!"). Was it 'cause she was dead when Gabrielle forced it between her teeth? Was it cause Xena is already half god (as in "Daughter of Ares") and hell we all know ambrosia is the food of the gods (like sushi is the food of the Japanese, pasta the food of the Italians), but if Xena was half god, then she should have been immortal and shouldn't have died in the first place. The general consensus on the Fix of Destiny was "...Oh who knows what the hell happened and how that ambrosia worked uniquely on her and only her in that way--her hips are fixed so she's back! YAY!" Okay, Fixing Sacrifice-this is generally acknowledged as the absolute worse Fix in the series. The Fix: "I was blown into a niche. And woke up in a hostel. I sent you mail. Did you get it?" And that was it for many years. All the lists I was on were all in the "Say wha...?" mode over Niche Gabrielle. (Hey-how come we didn't get a doll of that?) I think that was the most lame and unsatisfactory rethreading of a plot line they'd ever come up with. It was so bogus, they actually had another go at it and revisited it in Soul Possession for another attempt at a Fix, which at least solved the physical problems of how Gabrielle survived the plunge into the fiery pit. Fixing Ides. One of the more traditional Fixes-a Deux et machina one (though, as I've said before, this series usually presents Xena et machine). Was it satisfying? It created less problems than most of the other Fixes, but it was also so traditional as to be boring. And that's one thing Xena almost never was-and so to me it created a "Oh, whatever" response. Fixing Fin. Rob ended the show with a beautifully prepared set-up for any future storyline makers, handed them the goods on a silver platter. Now let's see-Gabrielle has Xena's remains (and her spirit) with her and she's heading for Egypt, where the religious system focuses HEAVILY on the soul being eternal and having a life after death. Gee, now let's put our thinking caps on and see if we possibly find something in this situation that might work towards bringing Xena back. Of course, a bunch of us have been discussing for a long time that if they ever made a sequel, we hoped they would make it clear that Xena's sacrifice for the Greater Good in FIN is not just dismissed. That ending in FIN gave Xena her longed for redemption. So what we would have in the new movie would be a post reformation Xena, one who again, as Xena indicates in Clones, doesn't have to worry about atoning for her past anymore. (In fact, I'll be curious to see what they come up with for the main conflict in the new story, since the original and unique quest is now resolved and finished. They could go ANYWHERE from here!) There's just oodles of Fixes for FIN that are certainly just as good if not better than the Fixes for all the other times she died. The Egyptian gods could do any number of things to release Xena from her stubborn death. Perhaps the Egyptian gods need Xena (and only Xena) for a very special mission that includes a HUGE greater good component, one that will save maybe an entire civilization, never mind just a town. And as a reward, she gets to stay alive and the 40,000 Higuchi souls get to stay in heaven or wherever they gummy wormed themselves to. Or, they just figure that what the Japanese gods don't know won't hurt them. Or, that sacrifice Xena made was so great that just her absolute and honest willingness to do it enables her to be brought back without ruining the Higuchi's souls' wa. At the con, Katherine mentioned Osiris and Isis as possible characters. Yum yum. Bring 'em on. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:37:27 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] When to place the Xena Movie A story before the 25 year gap would enable them to use any of the regular cast of characters they wanted to. Hell, Joxer, could be in it! That might be a good selling point with Universal, that the story would be familiar to the masses of fans who caught a few eps here and there every year it was on. And who are considered the regular fans, the broad base of fandom, as defined by the studios. I remember reading this years ago--that studios define a fan as someone who watches maybe 7 episodes a year. (About a third of a season.) A story before FIN but after the 25 year gap has to work without being able to rely upon the usual cast of characters, some of whom (Joxer) were VERY popular with the mass of fandom. Though I LOATH the character, he sure had lots of fans out there. (And some of them are still going to the con!) A story after FIN takes off from a whole new tangent with a whole new Xena--a post reformation Xena. THAT is the most exiting idea to me by far. A whole new conflict would have to be worked up since the main thread of the series--Xena's quest for redemption is over. Or else it could just be one of the more typical T&A summer blockbuster type of movies--all special effects and chariot races and of course no room for all those lovely angst-filled arcs. At the con a fan asked Katherine "What about an uber?" She had no idea what "uber" meant in this context and someone explained it would be a story of X&G in the modern world. She said something about, "Oh, like the concept in Between the Lines, the soulmates through time." (Didn't mention The Xena Scrolls, which of course was the original uber impetus.) Katherine and Sharon didn't follow up on that--they stuck with the original three choices, so the fans didn't get to vote on that option at all. I was thinking about this last night and it struck me that possibly this is Rob's ace in the hole. That if they can't get a Xena movie up with Ur X&G, they could turn to just casting Lucy and Renee as X&G "types" and go ahead and make them in a modern day world. Either showing them as the Clones or Annie and Maddie from Deja vu or just having them as the grrls reincarnated, either overtly or as a kind of subtext that only XWP fans would "get". This could free them from having to to involve Universal, letting them shop a grrl adventure story around to many studios. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:43:49 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena movie poll On Monday 17 February 2003 05:20, KTL wrote: > > Okay, Fixing Sacrifice-this is generally acknowledged as the absolute > worse Fix in the series. The Fix: "I was blown into a niche. And woke up > in a hostel. I sent you mail. Did you get it?" No *that* wasn't a fix for the problem. But anyway the problem wasn't actually created in Sacrifice, it was created in Ides when Callisto turned up in Hell. Surely as a Greek goddess she should have been in Tartarus. They never fixed that. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:12:38 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation's poll On Monday 17 February 2003 05:17, KTL wrote: > > Yep, I was okay with FIN, but definitely wouldn't mind a happy ending > > that built on what happened previously and didn't jeopardize the (wasn't > > it 40,000?) souls. My own theory is that Yodoshi put that idea in > > Akemi's head, thinking he could defeat Xena if she stayed in the spirit > > realm. Who's to say there was any truth to it? > > Ouch! I don't like that idea. I don't like that Xena's profound sacrifice > that resulted in her finally getting the redemption she'd been searching > for since day one was done because someone tricked her. Xena not only > isn't stupid, she also is excellent at sniffing out the charlatan (though > this skill was a little slowed down in season four). I just don't see her > being taken in. It's very ignoble. Not worthy of her end. To me. Yeah. Me too. That would be almost as bad as fudging up a timeline so that FIN 'never happened'. It's cheating Xena and kinda cheating the viewer, too. In some shows, the hero dying as a result of a massive mistake or screw-up would fit right in - the end of Blakes 7 for instance, or I could even see it happening to Crichton in Farscape.... but it does *not* suit Xena!! > > Still, anything more than a passing reference to FIN could be > > problematic. On one hand, building too much on FIN might only anger those > > fans who think FIN was too bloody or "wrong" and shouldn't have happened > > at all. > > Well, to be blunt, too bad. FIN was no more bloody, horrific nor > mysogynist than many other eps, starting as early as the pre-XWP show > Herc ep The Gauntlet, and continuing throughout the series. Without even > trying, I can use for examples such eps as Between the Lines, The Way, The > Debt and Who's Gurkhan as episodes where Xena gets badly beaten and > misused. Some people who hate FIN hold it to a totally different standard > than any other ep and act as if everything in it from plot holes to > inconsistancies to beating up Xena to killing Xena didn't ever happen in > any other ep in the series. That is pure baloney. > > Those fans will only be praying that the Xena movie fails since they HATE > Tapert and some of them hate Lucy too. So I say, screw 'em. Don't hold back, will ya, KT ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:46:36 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] When to place the Xena Movie Hi, I voted for the "pre-freezing" option, simply because I personally don't want to have to deal with Xenites of either the pro- or anti-FIN faction if they go with the post-FIN option. :} Besides, KT made an excellent point: >A story before the 25 year gap would enable them to use any of the regular >cast of characters they wanted to. Hell, Joxer, could be in it! That might >be a good selling point with Universal, that the story would be familiar >to the masses of fans who caught a few eps here and there every year it >was on. And who are considered the regular fans, the broad base of fandom, >as defined by the studios. I remember reading this years ago--that studios >define a fan as someone who watches maybe 7 episodes a year. (About a >third of a season.) Exactly. What we have to remember here is that the HCNB's do not constitute a big enough potential audience to be worth any major studio's time. And we really don't want a straight-to-video movie, do we? That'd just be embarrassing. In order to have a prayer of getting the project greenlighted, Tapert et al. will have to aim at the lowest common denominator. That means creating a two-hour standalone episode along the lines of "Chariots of War" or "The Price" or "Tsunami" ... something that doesn't rely too much upon the audience's knowledge of Xena's backstory, that allows the grrls to kick maximum amounts of ass while not having to waste too much time on exposition. Studios are going to be looking for something that's more "Tomb Raider" than "The X-Files Movie". While that's not going to be as satisfying to many nutballs as a filmed piece of post-FIN fanfic might be, it could still make an entertaining movie. Provided things don't linger in development too long, studios may go for a script that has something to do with Rome ("Gladiator", anyone?), or even my long longed-for Xena-meets-Alexander-The-Great story (since there are no fewer than two Alex movies in production right now). It could be framed in the context of a previously-unknown scroll of Gabrielle being unearthed in the Egyptian desert, or something. If Kevin Smith were still alive, the story of just how Xena got Ares into that cave would make a *great* movie. Just so long as (gods help us) TPTB don't decide that the best chance to bring in an audience would be "featuring Kevin Sorbo as Hercules". If that happens, I may just be forced to run screaming into the trees. =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Dorothy Scott, 3/16/03 =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:44:27 +1300 (NZDT) From: sojourner@paradise.net.nz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation's poll Quoting KTL : > >> > I LIKE the idea of the souls deciding to help Xena. When Xena releases > them in FIN, they're all right happy little souls. They are obviously > not holding a grudge or anything--I had no impression that they expected > nor demanded that Xena stay dead for them--releasing them from Yodoshi's > grasp made them very appreciative it looked like to me. They must be avenged, > i.e., an outside source, their "system" demands this. It's not them, > it's not revenge. > > That'd be kewl if they were involved. I did write a post once about the > gummy souls helping to float Gabrielle back to shore after she falls > overboard. Xena the Warrior Pot jumped in too and slipped into > Gabrielle's bra to act as a water wing for helping to keep the little > blond kid afloat. Then the gummy souls came along and did the > propulsion to shore. > Now what list was it I posted that on? The too-f**king-weird-to-be-believed list? So I couldn't find the poll on the creation site (blaming the nasty kiwi computer I am on) and I actually have something to say about the idea of a movie! I reckon this movie needs to represent the essence of XWP, rather than be a further episode of the series. So it should be pre-FIN. Frankly no-one who goes to see it (apart from us of course) will have any idea about how the series ended - nor will they care. They want to see a sword-wielding butt-kicking under-dressed chick - PLUS the major themes. Which may or may not include redemption but would include subtext and the idea of the flawed hero. With Kevn dead they may not go for an Ares storyline - is there still mileage in Callisto? TWO sword-wielding butt-kicking under-dressed chicks!!! Alti still got a pulse? My vote - mix of X&G and uber - time travel BS again, written by Rob, directed by Sam Raimi. Happy ending. No sequel. (Could Lucy play the role again at 40?) Or do a LOTR and film two films together - just like a regular fortnight on the show! Big effects. Lotsa budget. Me a happy person and would drag all my friends. All two of them and one of them's KT. Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:46:25 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> This is of course the beginning of a three-part arc based on Wagner's Ring cycle and Beowulf. I like this three parter and the first tells the story of Xena's relationship with Odin and the Valkarye and why after 35 years she must go North to once again clean up her mess. The story opens with Xena looking very different. In a forest Xena sits waiting. As she waits she lovingly fondles a gold ring. As she puts it on a blissful looks come over her but soon she is her alert self-return. A monstrous figure appears behind her. She is expecting it and soon they are engaged in battle. Xena taunts the monster with the fact the ring makes her invincible but the monster will not be deterred. Soon Xena has kicked the monster to a cave and locks the creature up, securing the gates with a double raven lock. The monster however has one last trick to play; grabbing Xena's arm it steals the ring. Xena is incensed; she vows the monster will never escapes its prison but she is helpless to get her ring back. Her horse arrives and Xena mounts and surprisingly flies off. Thirty-five years later Xena and Gabrielle are dining at a tavern. Xena is not pleased: her meal has been small and Gabby's dinner is looking particularly tasty. Gabrielle is not about to give up her meal and the grumpy warrior and the smug bard are having a good- natured tiff over the meal. Suddenly a stranger appears behind Xena. She tells him she doesn't like to be stared at but the stranger introduces himself as Beowulf and drops the now rusted raven's lock on the table. A now subdued Xena goes off to talk to him. When she comes back to the table she looks troubled. Gabby tries to lighten the moment by offering her friend her dinner, but Xena has lost her appetite and looks positively ill. That night as the women prepare for bed (bed preparation is really fast since no one even takes off their boots, armor or weapons), Gabrielle seems a bit put out that Xena will not confide in her but Xena says it's just something she did long ago and she can't bring herself to talk about it. Gabrielle accepts that for now but you sense Gabby's going to continues the discussion in the morning. When morning comes Gabrielle discovers that Xena has gone but has left a note. Xena writes that her mission is now extremely dangerous and she will not let Gabby dies with her again. She writes she loves Gabrielle and seals the note with a rather startling big red kiss (those dang Avon ladies must be everyway). Xena obviously still doesn't quite understand her partner if she believes Gabrielle will stay behind. After pondering Xena's request, Gabrielle takes off after her friend. Although Xena is weeks ahead of her (why it's weeks is a mystery unless Gabby pondered following Xena for a month which I doubt), gabby tracks her far to the north. The bard knows that Xena is once again trying to right some wrong from her past but she also knows that whatever Xena does will it never be enough in her own eyes. Gabrielle will not let Xena go through her troubles alone. In a Norse village Gabrielle comes across an old man with a tapestry. On it are depicted the Valkarye on their flying horses. There is one that looks suspiciously like Xena. Gabrielle is told that the Valkarye are Odin's mortal guards but escort the dead to Valhalla. Gabrielle asks about the dark one and when the old man can't remember her name a young woman chimes in that this is Xena. Gabrielle now has a clue about what is going on. She asks the young woman, Brunnhilda, if she knows anything about this Xena. Brunnhilda knows all about Xena; she has studied Xena her whole life and admires her greatly. Gabrielle asks the young woman to tell her what she knows and thus we learn of Xena's adventures among the Norse gods. Years ago Xena met Odin. Odin in despair over mankind's warlike nature has crucified himself on a tree. There Xena finds him - hanging from his tree. She asks him why he has done this and when he explains his reasons, Xena is unimpressed. For her life's conflicts and struggles are what makes life exciting. Every day she looks forward to the battles that will bring victory and power and she is not afraid that someday she may meet defeat because that also makes life interesting. She has only contempt for this god who has given up and as she is about to ride she tells Odin to embrace the struggle and fear it. Xena is obvious an existential hero. Brunnhilda tells Gabrielle that Xena's lust for life brings Odin out of his funk and soon she is made a Valkarye. Xena excels in her position but she soon in conflict with Grinhilda, the Valkaries' leader and Odin's lover. Grinhilda is compassionate and although she escorts warriors to Valhalla, she has no love of war. The two women's differing philosophies soon are tested on a battlefield. A small group of Norsemen is fleeing a more powerful band of berserkers. Xena comes upon; she tells to turn and fight and not to surrender. Grindhilda urges them to surrender - they will live to fight another day and the berserkers may learn mercy. Xena however prevails with tales of glorious death and the specter of cowardice's shame. The young men turn and fight but are slaughter. Xena watches their death with satisfaction while Grinhilda is disgusted. That evening at Odin's banquet, Grinhilda confronts Xena and Odin. It is obvious the Xena and Odin have grown close in fact the audience can hear Xena flirting with the god. Grinhilda is not pleased when Odin asks why she is late; she replies she was escorting warrior to the place in Valhalla. Xena ways the warriors were good warriors who died bravely with Odin's name on their lips. Grinhilda has a different view - the died needlessly in a battle over greed. Xena now defends greed with passion. Greed is one life's great forces like sex and the will to power it is necessary for survival. For Xena greed is good - it keeps one struggling on in life. Grindhilda can't accept this and leaves. Odin is upset by Grinhilda's anger - once he loved her. Xena is pragmatic - one can live without love. Gabrielle after hearing this part of Brunnhilda's story is not appalled or upset by Xena's actions. Indeed she has only sympathy for her friend. Brunnhilda is stunned - how can Gabrielle feel sorry for Xena. Gabrielle says she is sad because the young Xena really believed she could live without love. Her friend Xena now knows that this isn't true. Brunnhilda is taken aback at the news that Gabrielle is a friend with the legendary Xena. She tells Gabrielle she will return that night and tell her the rest of Xena's story. That night as Gabrielle awaits Brunnhilda she hears a noise in the woods. As she investigates, Brunnhilda suddenly attacks her. The fight is fairly even and Gabby cuts her foe with her own sword. Gabby is soon knocked to the ground but Brunnhilda doesn't continue the attack. Instead she seems quite pleased and impressed with Gabrielle's fighting abilities. Gabrielle is not so pleased she wants to know why she was attacked. Brunnhilda says she was auditioning for a spot on Xena's team. Gabrielle isn't pleased but she realizes Brunnhilda is in the midst of hero-worship and accepts her explanation. Brunnhilda now accepted by Gabrielle continues with the story. Later that evening Odin gives Xena the gift of her rune. He gives her the power to control fire. Xena is unimpressed; she can start a fire with two sticks. Odin says with this power she can sustain a flame in differently and the implication is that she can be fire. Xena is suspicious - it sounds like self-sacrifice to her and that is not her thing. She wants more. Odin is startled what more could she want. Xena wants to know about the Rhine gold. Odin is stunned - no one is supposed to know about the Rhine gold and he won't reveal its secret. Xena unexpectedly begins to cry. Odin is once again surprised. Tearfully Xena confesses that she could never love any one who doesn't trust her. After Xena's pronouncement that she could live with out love, he didn't think she loved anyone. Xena tearfully confesses she lied - she loves Odin. A pleased and proud Odin takes Xena into his arms and tells her about the Rhine gold - the one who possess it invincible but it is very dangerous to anyone who has given up their love. As Xena listens to Odin's story you can see that Xena has just duped the naive god into revealing his more precious secret. This scene surprised me a bit. Xena has always been ambitious and ruthless but I never saw her up until to this moment as duplicitous. She has always been straightforward in her goals and ambitions. Indeed through out this episode she pronounces her worldview with pride and candor. Why suddenly she decides to deceive Odin is a bit of a mystery to me? Perhaps Odin's gullibility was just to tempting - Xena couldn't resist using it to get what she wanted. The next day an irate Grindhilda confronts Odin. Xena is moving up the Rhine in search of the Rhine maidens, the guardians of the Rhine gold. Odin has to sheepishly confess that he has told Xena about the Rhine gold. Grinhilda is slacked jawed at Odin's stupidly in believing that Xena loved him. A chagrined Odin gives Brunnhilda permission to go after Xena. In the skies above the Rhine Grinhilda and her Valkarye confront Xena (I love Gabrielle's comment that she bet Xena had no trouble dealing with them). Xena indeed makes short work of the Valkarye (I like the part where the one Valk gets knocked off her horse and lands behind Xena much to Xena's stunned displeasure). Soon Grinhilda and Xena are fighting (there's a great shot of them fighting that is made looking up at the women from beneath the horses). Grinhilda finally dives off her horse, crashing into Xena and hurling them to the earth below. The pine trees break their falls and both women survive. Grinhilda is obviously badly hurt but Xena seems to be fine. Xena now slowly approaches her injured foe and as she raises her sword to kill Grinhilda she suddenly changes her mind. She turns and mounts her horse and flies off. Leaving the injured Valkarye behind. I've always wondered why Xena didn't kill Grindhilda. I think there are two reasons. First I think she had a kind of grudging respect for her. Grindhilda is brave and resourceful and certainly not afraid to die for her cause. Also I think Xena relishes the conflict with Grindhilda. For Xena Grinhilda is the only opponent worth her time - without Grinhilda everything would just be too easy. Grinhilda makes things interesting for Xena. She kept her playmate alive so they could fight again. Xena finally makes it to the Rhine maidens. The three nymphs readily accept Xena into their midst. They are childlike in their attitude and one of the maidens is smitten right away with Xena. It is almost too easy for Xena to convince the maiden to take her to the gold. The girl happily takes her new best friend to the underwater cave where the gold is kept. Xena now opens the chest containing the Rhine gold. The young maiden is frighten - it's dangerous to any one who has not forsaken love. She innocently asks Xena if she has forsaken love. Xena snarls "you bettcha" and viciously punches the girl in the face and leaves with the gold. It is a shocking simply because Xena is so cruel in the face of such innocent trust. The first time I think the audience can see why Xena is so ashamed of her past. Xena now forges the gold into a ring. The scene is nicely shot with great background music by DuLucca. The tale is ended for now. Gabrielle has listened the story. She is still puzzled as to why Xena needed the ring since in Gabrielle's eyes Xena is the greatest fighter in the world anyway. The however doesn't answer the question of what Xena is upto. Brunnhilda asks for more details. Gabrielle tells her about Beowulf and the Raven's lock. Brunnhilda now knows what is going on. She tells Gabrielle that Xena is on a suicide mission. We now meet up with Xena and Beowulf. Beowulf seems rather interested in Gabrielle and just a bit smitten. Undoable Xena has been regaling Beowulf with stories about her friend. Beowulf says she must miss her and Xena agrees. Beowulf says he would like to get to know Gabrielle better but since he and Xena are doomed it's a fruitless wish. Beowulf does not possess a sunny disposition. They finally make it to a wooden keep. All around them are slaughtered men. In the keep there are more dead men. Xena asks what the monster the will fight is called. Beowulf says Grindle. The monster has killed his friends and brothers and he doesn't hold out much hope their survival. Xena says the monster can be fought - it is slow and awkward. Beowulf says she knows a lot about the creature. Xena string out into the forest before them says she should "she made it." In the night Gabrielle and Brunnhilda are making for the same keep. Brunnhilda tells Gabrielle they should camp for the night but Gabby, knowing Xena is just ahead of her, will not stop. Brunnhilda warns her that they may encounter Grindle. "Who is Grindle'" asks Gabrielle. "What is Grindle is a better question", relied Build. Grindle is a monster that has been imprisoned for yeas in an abandoned mine secured by the Raven lock. Now it is out ravaging the countryside. Gabrielle knowing the danger Xena is in will not be deterred and she presses on. In the keep Xena and Beowulf await Grindle. Grindle breaks down the door and it looks like the monster Xena fought 35 years ago and it still is wearing the Rhine gold ring. Xena and Beowulf attack the monster. The fight is vicious - the creature tosses the pair around like doll. The two however battle on - Xena is smashed from pillar to post. Beowulf hacks away at the Grindle with his battle-ax. All is to no avail. The creature flings Beowulf in a pillar and he is buried under debris. Xena beaten and bloodied can't even stand as the monster approaches her. At daybreak Gabrielle and Brunnhilda reach the keep. Gabrielle rushes into the keep looking for Xena. Before them is destruction. They hear a moan from under some debris and they uncover Beowulf who mournfully tells Gabrielle that Xena has been dragged off by Grindle. Gabrielle however does not give up; she calls to her friend but then she finds Xena's dented and bloody breastplate. Things don't look good. TO BE CONTINUED. This is a really good episode. Gabrielle finally acts like Gabrielle. She is loyal to her friend and can hear the tale Xena's evil ways without judging her but with sympathy. I like the fact also that she doesn't hesitate to go after Xena - Gabrielle will never be left behind. Brittany Powell makes a nice impression as Brunnhilda - she is very likable and I like the air practicality she brings to the role. You can see that she is surprised at Gabrielle's determination and support of Xena and you understand her growing admiration of her new friend. Renato Bartolomie didn't have much to do in this part but he makes a great friend for Xena. Luanne Gordon overcame a bad hair day to make her compassionate Grinhilda stand out. Alexander Gordon was good as the dense Odin. Marama Jackson was touching as the Rhine Maiden betrayed by Xena. Lucy was outstanding. As the young Xena she was every bit the brash arrogant warrior on the way up. Lucy is a brave actress - she is never afraid to be unpleasant or down right nasty and in the scene with the Rhine Maiden she pulls no punches (no pun intended). You really don't like this Xena. As the older Xena you really see that she is truly ashamed at her former life. So much so that she flees her best friend and courts death. I love the scene in the tavern after she talks with Beowulf- her shame is so great that you actually think she is going to be physically ill. Great job. More next week. As we learn more about Xena's past. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:53:33 -0600 From: "Maria T. Vivoni" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Creation's poll >I reckon this movie needs to represent the essence of XWP, rather than be a >further episode of the series. So it should be pre-FIN. Frankly no-one who >goes >to see it (apart from us of course) will have any idea about how the series >ended - nor will they care. They want to see a sword-wielding butt-kicking >under-dressed chick - PLUS the major themes. Which may or may not include >redemption but would include subtext and the idea of the flawed hero. > You update the audience on what happened. You give them a brief background story and voila the audience knows what happened during the 6 year run of the show. X-Files the movie was very successful and it was just a longer episode that continued the series in movie form. A Xena movie post-FIN will be the same. And like you said, they won't care, so the movie can be post-FIN, no problem there. Yes, the movie needs to represent the essence of the show and you still can get that if it were a post-FIN story. And isn't it the essence of the show Xena and Gabrielle's relationship, as well as fighting for the greater good (good over evil kinda of thing) and Xena seeking redemption. I understand doing the the movie before the 25 year jump or FIN to be able to use popular characters (Joxer, Callisto, Autolycus...). But then the powers to be still know a huge percentage of loyal Xena fans will be upset because Xena's ending will still be with Xena dead and Gabrielle alive. For quite a few, many can't go back and enjoy the show do to how the show ended, so, if the movies were to take place before the 25 year jump or FIN, they may lose quite a few fans who would've have gone to see the movie it were post-FIN. Remember, the largest audience Xena had was about 8 million back in season 2 when everyone was talking about the kiss. After the hoopla was done and over with, the ratings were never that high again. To do a movie you have to reach, not only the loyal fans, but more than 8 million fans. Tomb Riader and Charlie's Angels (the movie) had a lot of success not only because of the popularity of the game or TV show, but because it had a sexy beautiful women kicking ass and a lot of special effects. Even then, many of those who went to watch these movies are not into the game or even seen an episode of the popular 70's show. A Xena movie will have that same formula, sexy beautiful women kicking ass and special effects. The question is when the movie will take place. Thus, I believe the powers to be will make the true fans who were upset with ending happy and at the same time make a movie that appeals to all audiences. Maria _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:00:05 +1300 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena movie poll At 11:43 a.m. 17/02/2003 +0000, cr wrote: >On Monday 17 February 2003 05:20, KTL wrote: > > > > > Okay, Fixing Sacrifice-this is generally acknowledged as the absolute > > worse Fix in the series. The Fix: "I was blown into a niche. And woke up > > in a hostel. I sent you mail. Did you get it?" > >No *that* wasn't a fix for the problem. But anyway the problem wasn't >actually created in Sacrifice, it was created in Ides when Callisto turned up >in Hell. Surely as a Greek goddess she should have been in Tartarus. They >never fixed that. Maybe Hell is like the afterlife version of a federal prison? When she was just killing in the normal insane way she was under the jurisdiction of the Greek gods to go to the local prison of Hades as it was a local crime But after helping out Hope & her dad she crossed the line and it was now a federal crime and she fell under the jurisdiction of Lucifer and hell the federal prison? What do you think? - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #48 *************************************