From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #35 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 03 : Number 035 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: DVDs, etc. ;)--Forgot ;( ["Jackie M. Young" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Me and John Wayne [cande@sunlink.net] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] RE: The Abyss ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] RE:The Abyss ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena DVD [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:24:17 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: DVDs, etc. ;)--Forgot ;( Of course, absent-minded me forgot to include the URL for Davis-Panzer: *Sigh*, ;=( - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:13:43 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena DVD On Sunday 02 February 2003 21:39, Cheryl Ande wrote: > This Xena DVD set that is coming out via Anachor Bay is this a different > company or is it just a sell through from Panzar Davis? > > CherylA Anchor Bay are the distributors who released one of Josh Becker's movies on DVD, IIRC. They sound more like original producers than resellers, so far as I can tell. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:09:51 +0000 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Sunday 02 February 2003 23:50, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > > The Abyss > > > > > > > > I like this episode very much. It is one of those that I put in when I > just want to watch a quintessential Xena episode. > > It has lovely mushy subtext moments, Oooh, oxymoron! > villains with absolutely no redeeming > qualities, Xena at her most heroic, and terrific battle sequences. Of > course there are also just wonderful absurd moments too. > > > > Back at the camp Virgil, after begging for his life and mentioning that he > is a friend of Xena, is knocked unconscious. He awakens in a hut with a > fellow prisoner. A thin but genial fellow named Rubio. Virgil is startled > to find that a feast has been set out for him and as he eats, a relieved > Rubio checks him out. No Rubio isn't looking for a Saturday night date, he > just making sure Virgil will be the next menu item. Rubio is pleased with > what he finds - Virgil will the blue plate special tonight. Virgil however > says Xena will save him - Rubio doesn't have much faith in the Zebra, the > Warrior Princess. Rubio was well acted I thought. Quite a comic character. In fact I was sure we were going to see him occasionally in future episodes (he was, after all, far more engaging than the annoyingly repulsive Falafel in Herc) but we never did. > > Xena goes back to the cave to care for Gabby (to cr this is now classic > hurt-comfort territory). I saw that! You cannot hide it from me!!! Not even buried in the middle of the longest most fulsome description of the most indigestible (no pun intended) episode.... > Gabby knows he has messed up big time. This is cr-bait, right? ;) > > As daybreak arrives, Xena is in the forest trying to think of a plan. She > comes across the waterfall and she gets a scathingly brilliant idea. She > starts to work. The chakram buzzes through enormous trees, pushes over > giant boulders, Xena drags trees around and hauls boulders into the > treetops. All this accompanied by Joe DoLuca's wonderful score. Actually that struck me as rather too typical of a back-woodsy 'going to work' score, as heard on a dozen Westerns. OK, maybe it's just me... :) > At the edge the waterfall, Gabrielle sees that Xena has been a very busy > gal. Xena sends Rubio off and tells Gabby that she is going to go back and > lead the cannibals to the damned fall. Gabby will cut the vine that is > strung between the trees when she and the tribe are in position. Xena is > off and Gabby and Virgil are left behind. They hide themselves but soon a > band of cannibals come into the clearing. One of them discovers the tied > vine and just as he is about to call to his companions, Gabrielle leaps > from her hiding place. Will she be able to kill? It's odd how nearly > being the main course at a family picnic can clarify one's thinking - she > skewers him. I was, I'll admit, relieved at that. Gabby gets it right..... > > There was when this episode aired some discussion over the fact that Xena > actually committed genocide when she killed the cannibals. An interesting > idea but I would say a false accusation. The cannibals didn't actually > seem to be a race or even a culture. There were no women present and so I > am assuming they were some kind of cult. They looked a bit like the Lord > of the Flies so maybe they were a band that got lost and started to be > cannibals out of necessity and liked it. Cannibalism. I believe was fairly > rare and usually ritualistic. I don't think there was ever any culture > that ate their fellow human beings for sustenance. I don't think the logistics would be sustainable. i.e. not enough supply of people. If there were enough people to supply the cannibals with a fulltime diet they would outnumber the cannibals many times over and presumably decide, after sufficient provocation i.e. having a few of their friends snacked on, to do them in. > I did think this was just a bit of cheat when it came to the issue of > Gabrielle's guilt issues and her lost of nerve. The episode put her in > such dire straits that she would have had to be a complete neurotic not to > have killed to save herself. There was no ambiguity here. Her judgment > wasn't really tested at all. Her hesitation in the scene where she is > wounded is so foolish that even Gabrielle knows she screwed up badly. Whooo. And that one wasn't even on my list! ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Me and John Wayne Yes I have made a number of errors in regard to Mr. Wayne. His name was indeed Marion why I made him Myron I have no idea I think I will blame spellchecker simply because I thought a man's Marion was spelled differently that a woman's Marion). He was exempt from the service because of his children but I do believe I have read his kness were also bad. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:29:28 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 2/2/03 10:57:27 PM Central Standard Time, aemoses@comcast.net writes: << Ife wrote: . (The only other "tests" I > can think of for Gabrielle were with Callisto and Meridian. In the former > case, Gabrielle wasn't defending anyone, so she dropped her sword. In the > latter case, she was defending Krafstar in a set-up situation.) to me, one of gab's greatest tests was with eli in . she respects eli's way despite what xena tells her to do and despite what she wants. not, goodness knows, that she could have stopped ares had she tried, but normally she would have tried. she knows she's not xena but she gives it a shot.>> Oh, yes! Excellent example, which I'd completely forgotten. And it was even more notable because it was after her acceptance of herself as a warrior. << i also thought throwing the spear in was a test as was her decision in . in the one, she choked and in the other she was the dea (?) ex machina. am i using that correctly? well, anyway, whatsisname died b/c she didn't act. which makes her guilty of his death, imo. and it was a decision i think she had the right to make.>> I was never convinced that she didn't intend to kill that soldier in Good Day. Despite her words, it was unclear to me whether her failure was because of skill, mixed emotions or both. << i strongly disagreed with tptb at the end of trying to take away from gab the right to make that decision by having xena get all protective and apologetic. i don't think xena would do that. i think she might look aggrieved as she did in and be sad, but she certainly had every right to expect gabrielle to struggle with her own moral choices. that's what equality in relationships is about. you don't carry other people's moral responsibility because you respect them enough to let them do it for themselves.>> LOL! I liked the ending precisely because of that. I liked how it showed the tension between them, the growth and continuing changes in their relationship and image of each other. I also liked that it once again showed Xena's propensity to protect Gabrielle, which she exhibited even in AFIN. It wasn't necessarily "right" or "adult," but a "human" tendency that was both Xena's flaw and strength. <> LOL! Well, as I say above, I think it was totally in character. I think she accepted Gabs becoming a warrior and that she might kill as a result of traveling with Xena. I don't think Xena ever accepted that Gabs should die as a result. and Is that a > cop-out by TPTB, in terms of "tests" of X or G's judgment in those > situations? Is it their way of saying that killing is only right in "dire" > situations where X&G are been attacked or defending someone, especially one > another? why would that be a cop-out? i don't follow and i'd like to. .>> Oh, I'm not saying it was. Cande said she felt cheated by the unambiguously "dire" situation in Abyss, in terms of "testing" Gabrielle's warrior judgment. It seemed she was saying that Gabs had no real choice if she wanted herself and Xena to survive. I meant that some people might see that as a "cop-out" in terms of whether it was right for X&G to use violence, but that maybe TPTB set it up so that X&G would only kill in "dire" situations. Xena's decision to skewer Baby Hope always stood out for me because, at the time, I wasn't convinced the little cutie was a dire evil. md--hoping this post makes at least an iota of sense >> It does to me. Now I have the same question. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:50:57 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > " Rubio was well acted I thought. Quite a comic character. In fact I was sure we were going to see him occasionally in future episodes (he was, after all, far more engaging than the annoyingly repulsive Falafel in Herc) but we never did." Was that the same actor? I'm surprised. I did think he was very good and I liked him. As a character I could have seen him again. > > (Xena goes back to the cave to care for Gabby (to cr this is now classic hurt-comfort territory). " ) > "I saw that! You cannot hide it from me!!! Not even buried in the middle of the longest most fulsome description of the most indigestible (no pun > intended) episode.... " You wanted know what hurt-comfort was. Well here it is all its glory. The cave scenes could have come straight from fan fiction. > ( wasn't really tested at all. Her hesitation in the scene where she is > wounded is so foolish that even Gabrielle knows she screwed up badly. ) > " Whooo. And that one wasn't even on my list! ;)" It was a big time screw up. The guy has fangs for cripes sake. Little pieces of the fellow he had for lunch are still between his teeth. Over yonder some guy is gnawing on Xena's neck and Gabby suddenly get all scrimish about this guy of all people. It is so obvious that she is making a mistake I'm yelling at the screen. The only redeeming fact is that Gabby recognizes she has screwed up. That takes maturity - she doesn't excuse her actions. She says I messed up and apologizes to everyone in sight. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:13:57 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: The Abyss IfeRae wrote: "Is that a cop-out by TPTB, in terms of "tests" of X or G's judgment in those situations? Is it their way of saying that killing is only right in "dire" situations where X&G are been attacked or defending someone, especially one another?" In The Way Xena is uncertain about her warrior path onll because she knows she is destine to be the Mother of Peace in the future and she doesn't want o mess that up. Xena generally doesn't have many second thought about killing per se (she did notaby in Remember Nothing). I think however it is general rule that neither Xena or Gabrielle ever kills unless the circumstances are dire. They don't kill people in comedies for instance. What I'm saying was that in the Abyss Gabrielle was distrustful of her ability to judge whether a situation calls for deadly force. Xena with her experience and natural talents is a good judge of when to kill and when to knock 'em senseless. Gabby doesn't have that experience and her judgement has been found wanting i.e, A Good Day and Legacy. If the purpose of The Abyss was for Gabrielle develope that judgement then it failed because there is no test here. All the people she is fighting are trying to kill and eat her. They are trying to kill and eat her friends. She doesn't have to decide whether she should kill - she has to kill or be the blue plate special. If the point of plot was on the other hand for Gabrielle to discover that she still had the skills to defend herself and Xena then it would have been more successful but Gabby never doubted her skills, just her judgement when to use those skills. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:32:53 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE:The Abyss From: mirrordrum to me, one of gab's greatest tests was with eli in . she respects eli's way despite what xena tells her to do and despite what she wants. not, goodness knows, that she could have stopped ares had she tried, but normally she would have tried. she knows she's not xena but she gives it a shot. Yes I think that was major character test for Gabrielle. To stand aside and let some one determine his own fate for good or ill is very hard. She certainly didn't want to do it but she had to give Eli the freedom to chose his own destiny. Since the the third season she seldom interfers with others decisions when they have a moral certainity about their path. That's why I though her decision to honor Xena's wish in FIN was so poignent. Depite her own feeling she would not interfer with Xena's decision about her fate. "i strongly disagreed with tptb at the end of trying to take away from gab the right to make that decision by having xena get all protective and apologetic. i don't think xena would do that. i think she might look aggrieved as she did in and be sad, but she certainly had every right to expect gabrielle to struggle with her own moral choices. that's what equality in relationships is about. you don't carry other people's moral responsibility because you respect them enough to let them do it for themselves. " No I think it was very natural for Xena to try and take the guilt from Gabrielle in WIR simply because Gabrielle's actions where so traumatic for her. It was afterall a hard year for Gabrielle - she killed, had the rift etc. Xena by this must have felt Gabrielle was on the verge of self-destructing and she was the cause. In Helicon we have a more mature Gabrielle. Xena now knows her partner's strengths and she has more confidence Gabrielle. She no longer has to feel responsible for Gabrielle because she now sees her as her equal and not as some one she has to protect. CherylA i ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:02:28 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena DVD Hi, CherylA wondered: >This Xena DVD set that is coming out via Anachor Bay is this a different >company or is it just a sell through from Panzar Davis? According to a posting on MaryD's site: >Anchor Bay will be releasing the Xena season by season boxed sets, I >called them up and spoke with Mike Felsher, the Film Information Manager >with Anchor Bay. He confirmed that the Anchor Bay DVD releases will be >different than the Davis/Panzer mail order releases. > >Unlike the D/P releases, these releases are sporting newly remastered >transfers of each episode, including brand new Dolby 5.1 surround tracks >and bonus features yet to be determined. He gave me an April 2003 release >for Xena season 1 and a June 2003 release for Hercules season 1. > >Anchor Bay is committed to presenting the show in the original aspect >ratio. He said, in part: "We will be presenting the show in the original >screen format whatever it may be. If the show legitimately went to 16x9 in >future seasons, then that is what will be released to DVD." > >Starting with Xena Season 3, episode 3 (since the first two eps of season >3 were shot during the tail end of season 2 and held over), this will be >the first time ANYWHERE that the 16x9 widescreen version of the show will >be available. (The worldwide sets put out by Universal in regions 2 and 4 >were pan and scan, not widescreen.) Depending on the bonus features, I may just be tempted to break down and buy some of these... =================================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =================================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Cadence Carroll & Kellie Lin Knott, 2/9/03 =================================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #35 *************************************