From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #10 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, January 12 2003 Volume 03 : Number 010 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Tickets for Pasadena Con [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] OT: Calla lilies and $'s ["H.J.J. Hewitt" writes: << Note: I have some gay buds who have no major problem with FIN but LOATH A&C just for this--that Xena was obviously smitten in a very serious way with this guy and this is a betrayal of her relationship with Gabrielle. So for this ep at least, it is important to my belief in Xena as a noble and honorable person that she and Gabrielle are soulmates but not a committed romantic couple. >> Yes, I found that extremely problematic too. Solution: X & G did not become a committed romanitc couple until 6th season. Works for me. XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra (the real Cleopatra)... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:49:19 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tickets for Pasadena Con A bud of mine is trying to sell her tickets for the con in Pasadena. I'm selling my Pasedena Convention tickets (Preferred Weekend Package). I ordered them on November 1, so they should be good seats. The package is $325. The convention is being held February 7 (Friday) to Feb 9th. Please contact me if your interested. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:25:34 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/10/2003 9:19:06 PM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > << And again, I saw her wanting to make love with Antony as a sign of a > > healing of some old wounds in her psyche. (Note: For this post, I'm > > assuming a best friends take on the X&G relationship.)>> > > > > LOL! I'm not as into all that as you. > > > No for me that's an important distinction. Because if Xena and Gabrielle > WERE a monogamous romantic/sexual couple, then in this ep, Xena's a bum. > And I don't think that she is.>> I wasn't clear. I meant that I wasn't into all the psyche stuff -- healing old emotional wounds and such. Not because I disagree with it. It's just not my forte. See, that's one of the reasons I have to keep on-screen X&G separate from my off-screen view. I can't pretend I didn't see eps that conflict with X&G as a couple. Nor do I want to hurt my brain trying to resolve those conflicts. I'd rather let other folks 'splain why G would encourage her spouse to hop in bed with "bad boys." I could assume maybe that's a version of an "open" relationship, but that would conflict with my off-screen view of them as dedicated to each other. > > If X&G were lovers who had committed fully to each other, then Xena would > respect and honor that. Absolutely. She would certainly not have been so > easily interested in other people. And especially in this ep--where the > tragedy of the ep for Xena is that she has come to realize she could love > this man. That he was a person she would want to spend time with, one who > could be a good partner to/for her. And she knows that the mission > (because of HIS decisions) demands that she has to defeat him. And knowing > him, she knows that having to defeat him means that she will have to kill > him to do so.>> Yep, the first part of what you say fits with my own view of off-screen X&G. In my on-screen view, the tragedy you mention stands on its own -- poignant and realistic regardless of X's relationship with G. I don't want or need the added subtext layer to make the thing with Antony more complex than it already is. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching other folks try to resolve what's going on at all those levels. Heh. > > Note: I have some gay buds who have no major problem with FIN but > LOATH A&C just for this--that Xena was obviously smitten in a very > serious way with this guy and this is a betrayal of her relationship with > Gabrielle. > > So for this ep at least, it is important to my belief in Xena as a > noble and honorable person that she and Gabrielle are soulmates but not > a committed romantic couple.>> Wait a minute. I misunderstood you above. It appears we're both saying we're looking at X&G from two perspectives. But if you saw them as best friends re: Antony, where'd the "healing old wounds in her psyche" come from? It sounds like a rationalization for "betraying" G, whereas I'd think X's attraction to A wouldn't need any explanation in the "best friends" context, other than the reasons X found A "hot." > LOL! Actually, I think that we've wandered from my initial point when I > got involved. Which was a response to Thel's comment that Xena didn't have > as many sexual liasons as one would have expected for such a gloriously > sensual, sexual and charismatic chica.>> > It now seems to have evolved into a discussion of how many liasons there > were, rather than how few there were.?>> Okay, forget my painstaking reply above. Grrrrrr. Are you agreeing with Thel or not? > > And I just don't see Xena taking on Draco. There just wasn't any > sexy spark in any of their scenes that I ever saw. Even when in Comedy of > Eros, Xena is besotted with Draco. Lucy plays Xena as an infatuated kid > with a mega crush--she sure doesn't portray a grown women seeing something > she wants and generating heat to or from the object of her interest.>> I got a definite feeling of attraction in Sins -- the suggestion that they did or might have been lovers, but that Draco got too bossy or competitive for Xena's tastes. > > Ife finished: > > > > Let's face it -- the girl > > had a busy schedule of lots of work, with her few hours of playtime > > reserved for Gabrielle. > > > > Ife > > > > Oh--so she's too BUSY for casual sexual dalliances eh? (Casual because in > > ANY take, Xena sure ain't going to go riding off into the sunset with > some > > boy.)>> > > > > Exactly. At least, that seems more likely to me than angst about being > > unworthy of casual sexual dalliances. Like I said before, I just didn't > see > > self-disgust keeping her from implied sex with Hercules, Marcus and > Ulysses > > or possible sex with Draco, Rafe or Antony. > > > Six years of show, six boys. You call that a lot? (This of course, is > studiously ignoring Evil Xena's fellas and girls since they were all ten > year ago. Or so.)>> Grrrr again. No, I don't call that "a lot." I simply meant that these examples to me *did* reinforce the idea of her as a "gloriously" sensual creature, and *did not* support the idea that self-disgust prevented her from enjoying the dalliances we saw or from having others we didn't see. > And I see you've listed Draco again...OH, I get it--you like Draco > yourself don't you? (It's his hair-hat, isn't it?)>> LOL! No, I list him because of the sexual tension I saw between them in Sins. The way Xena brushed his cheek and talked to him suggested a genuine former bond and regret that things between them had soured. I thought it significant that this element was in the first ep and that a variation was played out later with Marcus. It gave me my initial perception of Xena as a fully sensual being in the past, who was now dedicated to working against (betraying) people she'd once shared a life with in the most intimate of ways. That made her reformation a lot more meaningful to me, in terms of the pain involved in her new path. > What do you mean they switched places? Xena was not learning from > Gabrielle's new lessons/new outlook. Xena was lost and didn't give a damn > where they went in the physical world. >> I disagree. I think Xena was deeply affected by her role in what happened to Gab in S3 and by Gabs' questioning of herself and of violence. For most of S1-2, Gab put a lot of faith in Xena's instincts -- indeed, learned from them and initially wanted to be a warrior in Xena's mold. Xena invested a lot in teaching Gab what was useful and protecting her from what was bad. Suddenly, both of them were forced to question themselves and each other. This led directly to Xena's doubts about her "path," to being open to people or ideas she instinctively mistrusted, but which seemed to offer Gabs some positive things that Xena thought she couldn't. Both women made mistakes in that learning process, yet Gabs' quest ultimately helped Xena to resolve her own crisis of faith. By "switched roles" in S4, I don't mean that Gabs became the "parent" or "taught" Xena directly. I mean that Xena was positioned more as following Gabs' quest, observing and assessing Gabs' "lessons," supporting her, and learning about herself in the process. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:01:31 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Calla lilies and $'s >\I/ thought calla lilies (arum >lilies to Kiwis & Brits) were expensive florist-shop flowers, and when I >oh'ed and ah'ed about seeing them LIVE (growing all over, even by the >garbage bin of my apt. bldg.) my buddies wondered why I was so agog over >"those old weeds!", and could only shake their heads when I told them that >they cost a (1965!!!) dollar each at home. Just for the record, according to the Federal Reserve board a 1965 U.S. dollar would be the equivalent of $5.70 today. >Yeah, we got 'em in our garden. I periodically go out and attack 'em with a >machete, because they're growing like crazy all round and over a little >pittisporum (native tree) that I'm trying to get established.... Move the tree, you aesthetically-challenged Orc!!!!! TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #10 *************************************