From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #4 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, January 6 2003 Volume 03 : Number 004 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena [cr ] [chakram-refugees] xena visors/hats POLL [Lilli Sprintz ] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena On Sunday 05 January 2003 18:16, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Xena - Gabs did have some mushy stuff in it, > > though. It was rather more than just a 'female buddy' thing. > > And your basis for what goes on between female buddies would be ....? > > > -- Ife I assume the female equivalent of male 'buddy flicks'. And you don't find any mushy stuff in Herc & Iolaus, or Butch & Sundance. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:33:54 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] xena visors/hats POLL >"Creation (Sharon Delaney)" said, > > >Okay, we're getting together new products for the Pasadena convention > Hi Sharon! Hope you are well. Not interested in hats of any kind. however, wish that one day a really nice Chakram t-shirt would be made. With the ORIGINAL chakram style, on bright fuscia pink, or neon lemon green. something other than black shirts. Hope that helps. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:02:08 +1300 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy in Lesbian News Has anyone posted the URL of the complete interview (which is on MaryD's site) yet? Just in case, here it is: http://ausxip.com/lawless/articles/lesnews03/index.html It's a big download, 'cos it's in scanned JPG format. Still, I'd suggest reading the whole article, not just the bits that have been quoted on various lists previously, or even the excerpt at the LN site, because they don't give the full picture. Nor does the following, but it's interesting - Lucy certainly has her own viewpoint (it follows on from the usually-quoted 'not until then would I say that' excerpt): << If the woman who played the character herself wasn't completely sure about the relationship, no wonder it kept so many of us guessing and so intrigued. But Lawless says that the more she's thought about it, the more she realises that Xena changed for only two people, Akemi and Gabrielle. "The change for Akemi was she redeemed herself ultimately", Lawless explains. "She was making amends. I think she came out of the closet for Akemi. The change she made for Gabrielle was she became a much fuller, better human being". >> That won't please everybody, I think. ;) Still, it's LL's viewpoint and certainly an original one. Warning: I'm only quoting part of the article above. My typing ain't good enough to copy the whole thing. Any good typists around? Or someone with some good OCR software? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:53:32 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # This is a pretty good Halloween episode. Though I'm not one for haunted house movies this one was entertaining. I liked some of special effects especially Gumby Xena and Gabrielle and demon Gabby. The story opens with Michael and Raphael watching Xena, Gabby, and Eve. They say that Mephistopheles has opened a portal to earth from Hell and that soon he will take over the earth. The only chance the world has is Xena and they hope she up to the task. It would appear that Heaven can't protect itself and needs their god-slayer to do a job for them. Xena and Gabrielle are taking Eve to Amphipolis to meet Cyrene. Xena appears to have no doubts that Cyrene and her hometown would be just as she left it 25 years ago but she is sadly wrong. As Xena happily tells Eve that Amphipolis is just full of life they enter a very deserted town - there is even tumble weed in the tavern's court yard (are there tumble weeds in Greece?) As they enter Cyrene's tavern there are giant cobwebs hanging form the ceiling and dead leaves on the floor. Eve asks, "This is where mother was raised (you have the feeling Eve was going to continues with the thought "no wonder she turned out to be the destroyer of nations"). Gabrielle pipes up with 'It didn't look like this before" perhaps she was defending Cyrene's housekeeping reputation. Anyway Xena goes off to look around and sees Cyrene being dragged down the hall and gives chase. In another room Eve is lighting candles when she too sees Cryene's apparition and has the chilling experience of having Cyrene's ghost pass through her. When Xena joins, she makes the mournful announcement that Cryene is dead and in torment. No one is happy about Eve's revelation. Xena decides to go alone to the family crypt to see if is true that Cyrene is dead (I guess). At the crypt she finds Cyrene's tomb broken open her bones charred black and her skull abused (I assume the missing teeth in the skull came from abuse and not poor dental hygiene). As Xena tries to clean up the tomb Mr. Exposition (a beggar) pops up and tells Xena the sad tale of her mother's last days. Mephistopheles' evil spirits haunted the tavern and although Cyrene tried to fight them, they slowly drove her mad. Finally when the crops failed the townspeople turned on her and burned her as witch. The beggar tells Xena that Cyrene wasn't a witch it was the tavern that was bewitched by demons - demons that are still there. As Xena hurries off to warn her family about the danger, Eve and Gabrielle have already learned things aren't well at home. As the two women sit down to enjoy a meal of unidentifiable fruits and vegetables, maggots suddenly appear in the food. Gabby always first to chow down has already eaten some of tainted food (I liked Eve's rather weak warning to Gabby after Eve first sees the maggots, she asks quietly "Have you eaten any of this?" not "STOP! Don't eat that!). As Gabby runs off to empty her stomach, Eve goes outside to dispose of the food - as the thunder sounds and the lightening crackles the maggots increase exponentially. Eve is no fool - she knows evil goings on when she sees it and beings a chant we will hear through out the episode "In the name of Eli I cast thee out". As Gabrielle is washing up after getting rid of her meal, she sees worms crawling under her skin and her hands dissolving, but when Eve casts out the demons in the food her hands are healed. The dissolving hands are a suitably icky scene but things are only going to get worse for Gabs. As she goes to find Eve she notices a figure etched in the floor and strange cries emanating from beneath them. Like all good characters in haunted house stories instead of fleeing from the eerie sounds and strange carving, Gabrielle of course gets on the floor for a better listen. Arms suddenly appear out of the solid floor and pull her into a slim pit of water inhabited by demons. The demons are unhappy that she is not "the messenger" but seem pretty content to drown her in the muck anyway. (ROC has said because she just got her diver's certificate she was allowed to swim around in the disgusting brew without a stunt double - lucky gal). Xena has now returned to the tavern but has to break in. She meets up with Eve and they go off looking for Gabrielle. Xena sees the suspicious carving and hears Gabrielle's frantic cries for help. Xena plunges her arm through the demon carving and grabs Gabrielle pulling her to safety. Gabrielle is now safe but she has lost her boots, her orange outfit is history, and the muck is burning her, so she carried off to the showers. As Eve and Xena, who seem to have a hard time not looking over Gabrielle's body at every opportunity, wash Gabby off, Gabrielle tells them that the demons are looking for Eve. As Gabrielle continues to shower, Xena goes into another room and is confronted by the worse moment in her life. There on the table is the bloodied body of Lyceus and over him stands the young Xena. Cyrene appears and is shocked at the sight of her dead son. A guilty and defensive young Xena says she did all she could. Cyrene in her own grief turns on her daughter slapping her across the face blaming Xena for her son's death. She turns from Xena, looking at her son, she says that she has nothing left. Young Xena in her guilty grief finds no comfort in her mother's arms instead there is only rejection and recriminations. As she turns to look at her older self you see the hate and self-loathing twist her face and the older Xena looks on in pity and remorse. It would appear that the devil has found a terrifying way to torment Xena. While Xena is distracted by her past, Mephistopheles is up to some interesting tricks. As Eve prays in the courtyard, blood spurts up from the ground. Gabrielle still in the shower is now covered in blood, and is undergoing a metamorphosis. As blood drips from Gabby's hand we pull back and see that Gabby is now a yellow-eyed demon with a taste for blood. Xena now returns to the shower room and much to her surprise she sees a naked demon Gabby crawling on the ceiling. Whatever joy the sight of a naked Gabrielle may bring to Xena is severely tempered when demon Gabby attacks here. As Xena rolls about with the naked demon, she quickly dresses Gabby and ties her up. Eve appears and now is the time for the possessed Gabby to tell all. Mephistopheles is now in possession of Gabrielle and tells Xena that he is ready to come into the mortal realm. He has captured Cyrene's soul and it is in torment in Hell. He torments Xena with a vision of Cyrene crying out for her daughter as she is burned at the stake. He can release her if he gets what he wants - he needs the blood of the messenger to be spilled. Xena will have done of it and orders Eve to cast the devil out of Gabrielle. Eve can cast out devils and Mephistopheles leaves Gabrielle but says he will keep Cyrene until he gets what he wants. Xena now tells Gabrielle that she must leave but Gabby won't. Eve says that Gabrielle can't be possessed again since she is now cleansed. Eve leaves to pray at the hell mouth. Gabrielle now dressed in a very nice blue outfit (obvious she must have keep a some spare clothes at the inn) is still arguing with Xena about leaving. When Xena grabs her arm suddenly the two women's arms meld together. Then when they bump into each other their legs meld together. The room then comes alive - hurling furniture and chains at them. The hop and leap their way out the room and Eve quickly stops praying at the pit and says a prayer to separate them (Eve is very busy now). After separating X & G Eve crawls to the hell mouth and continues to pray. Eve however is weakening. At the hell mouth Mephistopheles tells Xena that Eve will die and that he really doesn't want that. He just needs a few drops of her blood to be able to enter the mortal world; he then starts to flay Eve alive. Xena makes a decision. Going to Gabrielle she announces she is going to the underworld to fight Mephistopheles. She is going to put the pinch on herself and Gabrielle is going to have to take it off before she is dead too long. Gabrielle is appalled - she doesn't know how to do the pinch. Xena however shows her where to pinch to bring her back. Gabrielle is justifiably nervous about this (after all they don't even have a black marker so that Gabby can but an X where she should pinch) but Xena will not be dissuaded. She pinches herself and off she goes to the netherworld. In Mephistopheles realm, Xena discovers a number of unsettling facts. First she meets her agonized mother carrying the bloody ax she used to kill Xena's father - Xena now sees first hand Cyrene's terror and torment. She also discovers that her power to kill gods is only good in the mortal world. Undaunted Xena goes after Meph, the fight is brutal. Meph sneers at Xena - How could you defeat the Olympian gods? Xena sneers right back in the face of the horribly ugly demon - "I must be distracted by your good looks". Xena then learns the other disturbing fact - if she does manage to kill Mephistopheles she will have to take his place in hell, but frankly this doesn't seem very likely. The fight has taken a turn for the worse for Xena - blood is freely flowing from her nose and she seems to be weakening. In the mortal realm Gabrielle and Eve are worried. Eve decides to get some water to help wake her mother (I love the look Gabby gives Eve when Eve goes off to get water - it seems to say "the poor idiot thinks water can help when I can't remember where to pinch"). As Eve goes to a bucket to get the water a head rolls out. Suddenly the people she has killed and her evil former self confront Eve. It is a scene that is very similar to the one in Dreamworker, where Xena's victims confront her, in a dreamscape. It is however played very differently. Eve denies that she had anything to do with the deaths. That Livia is essentially a different person than Eve. Xena, on the other hand , says she has changed but never denies her responsibility for her actions. Eve's reaction to her former evil self is also dramatically different that Xena's reaction to her dark side. While Xena finally accepts her dark side, Eve is clearly terrified of her dark side and it traumatizes her almost to the point catatonia. Back in the courtyard, Gabrielle is pinching the heck out of Xena's neck. Finally she hits the right spot. Xena awakens and they go off to find Eve. They find Eve huddled in the washroom and as they help her, Xena announces her plan. She will spill Eve's blood and bring Mephistopheles in the mortal world where she can kill him. Gabrielle is again appalled - Xena can't bring evil into the world and she can't fight all the demons in the world. Xena is by now really pi**ed off - "My mother's in torment, my daughter is half dead, and the portal to Hell has open up in my back yard." Xena is going to fight Meph even she has to take his place in hell - oops the cat is out of the bag. Gabrielle is now really opposed to the plan but Xena says it is up to Eve. Eve agrees with Xena - she will deliver Meph to the only hands that can defeat him. She then asks Gabrielle to help her. Gabrielle gives in and now takes Eve in her arms and helps her to the hell mouth. As Eve asks for Eli's help, she cuts her hand and as blood drips into the hell mouth, she calls upon Mephistopheles. Mephistopheles now made mortal leaps from the crevice. Xena now takes over and there is a furious fight. The devil is confident but is enraged when Xena comments on his bad smell (apparently not even the spawns of hell like to be told they have BO). Soon it looks like Mephistopheles will win - he throws Xena to the ground and when she fails to face him again, he gloats that she just can't bring herself to kill him and take his place. Just as he raises his sword Xena turns and with a "SO BE IT" plunges her sword into the demon killing him. With his death, Xena seems almost stunned and little out of it (it's really a very interesting expression LL has at that moment) but Gabrielle brings her out of it with good news. In a shaft of light is the freed Cyrene. She is happily talking with her granddaughter and is very happy to see her daughter and Gabrielle. Cyrene tells Xena that she will always be with her and then goes off to heaven. As the trio contemplate the hellhole Xena says that things aren't over yet and she is right. There are two really good scenes here. The one with the young Xena is very moving and LL did a wonderful job in it. You can actually see the humanity die in Xena when her mother rejects her. Then we have Cyrene's scene in Hell - - here she relives the crime that both saves her daughter but also separates her from her daughter. I have always felt that the secret of Cyrene's crime warped her relationship with her daughter. Cyrene could never be as close to her daughter because of the secret and the guilt. Lyceus was the child she could love freely. When Lyceus died perhaps she felt she was being punished for the crime she committed while saving Xena and in a perverse way blamed Xena for it. That maybe why these two episodes in Xena's past are presented in this episode - they feed into each other. I also want to mentions ROC's demon. She does a great job. She is incredibly vicious and very gleeful as the vixen. I loved the way she went all out in the part - even down to the little drop of spit hanging from her lip - disgusting but very much in keeping with a demon. I have always said I liked ROC's demons - she is scary because she is little. A little vicious demon that is kind of cute is scarier to me that some big hulking guy with horns on his head. The little demon always seems just smarter and more dangerous than the big guy. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:25:50 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/5/2003 2:46:17 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Xena - Gabs did have some mushy stuff in it, > > > though. It was rather more than just a 'female buddy' thing. > > > > And your basis for what goes on between female buddies would be ....? > > > > > > -- Ife > > I assume the female equivalent of male 'buddy flicks'. And you don't find > any mushy stuff in Herc & Iolaus, or Butch & Sundance. > Ah. Well, if "mushy" means embracing vs. punching in the shoulder, talking together vs. spitting together and looking at each other vs. looking away from each other during emotional moments, then I'd say the'yre might be a few differences between female and male buddy interactions. One can argue about when the female version turns "sappy" (e.g., KT's view of moments in Fates), but that criticism seems more tied to whether it seemed "out of character" or "over done" for a particular moment/situation, than because of the unself-consciously intimate or caring aspect in itself, which I see far less of in male buddy scenes. I'm thinking that might be one reason for the wide interpretations given to X&G's relationship. In general, women are given much more leeway in terms of expressing love, but not anger, while it's the other way around for men. Again, I liked that both Herc and Xena allowed their characters to defy such "norms." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #4 ************************************