From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #3 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, January 5 2003 Volume 03 : Number 003 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Chakram #20-- Oops [cr ] [chakram-refugees] random amusing flamemail [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] random amusing flamemail [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Lee Daley ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] LL interview in Lesbian Nation [cjlnh@webtv.net (C] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Antlers [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena [cr ] [chakram-refugees] This week on the HIST channel ["H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Chakram #20-- Oops On Saturday 04 January 2003 06:34, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > Crap! Sorry about posting to the wrong list. > > -- Ife I didn't think it was crap, I thought it was a rather nice post. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:43:59 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena On Saturday 04 January 2003 08:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/2/03 5:59:22 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > << First as much we may not like it there is a > different standard for woman than for men. Hercules or Iolus could have > the girl of the week and we see that as an indication of their manliness. > Now reverse that, if Xena and Gabrielle were off with a different guy each > week we > have a pretty icky feeling that our gals were just a tad immoral if not > trampy. Sexual relations for a woman usually must be tied to strong > romantic feelings >> > > I'm not sure how much that influenced Herc/Xena. Indeed, I think they > intentionally went against such standards. I didn't watch Herc much, but of > what I saw, the strong, respectful feelings in his liaisons seemed very > much tied to his heroic, "manly" character. With Xena, they certainly > expanded the range of liaisons that could be shown of a female hero -- some > purely physical or strategic (Borias, Caesar), some as casual or > affectionate dalliances (possibly Marcus, Draco, Rafe), others with > potentially deeper ties (Petracles, Ulysses, Antony). > > I agree that Reformed Xena was not shown as having a bunch of different > liaisons. I simply never felt her sexual nature was denied or romanticized > or ruled by a double standard. She seemed capable of using sex if she had > to and free to engage in it if she wanted, but *chose* to be caring and > respectful as what was "right" for her. I guess I view what we saw as more > a function of the action format and concept of her character, and that the > same was true of how TPTB dealt with Herc's relationships. > > -- Ife Certainly, with Herc, they did not usually show him as sweeping females off their feet in every ep, James Bond-style. Occasionally, a minor female character would get a crush on Herc, but he was usually more embarrassed by it than anything else - in the sense of, trying not to hurt their feelings. Atalanta was one, Hilda the Viking girl in Norse by Norsevest was another. I think the number of 'serious' affairs Herc had in the series was less than Xena, actually. There may have been a couple of ex-girlfriends who appeared - - Nemesis was certainly one. His wife Deianeira was killed by Hera, either before the series started or shortly after it started. The only significant romantic entanglements during the series itself (that I can remember) were Xena, Serena (the Golden Hind), and Morrigan. There were maybe a couple of others who were mutually attracted to Herc, but only count as 'possibles' I think - a rebel leader (Rheanna?) in Heedless Hearts, Cassandra (Claudia Black!) in Atlantis. Not a very big score for six seasons. 'Girl of the week' certainly didn't apply. Generally, the image of Herc was a guy that girls tended to swoon over but he didn't take advantage of them. The image of Iolaus, by the way, was of a guy who was always looking for romance and (almost always) being out of luck. Us guys know the feeling only too well ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 01:33:48 -0500 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] random amusing flamemail Hi, Happy 2003 to all Xenites! I must admit I'm painfully behind in reading stuff here, though I have been checking in to make sure the list has been running smoothly. Now that the holidays are over I plan to get caught up this weekend ... but I just had to tell you guys about a hilarious random email I just got from some guy in Australia who claims to be a friend of Joel Tobeck. Apparently he found the account I wrote about the Creation con in NYC I attended a couple years back, in which I described the cabaret band featuring Kevin Smith, Danielle Cormack and Joel Tobeck. I guess I didn't gush enough about his buddy for his tastes, so he felt motivated to toss off a four-screen screed at me. My favorite part was where he declared that I must be a "fat single lesbian, no, you can't even decide whether you're a lesbian or not, that's why you watch Xena, to figure it out". Gee thanks guy, I've been sitting around all my life waiting for you to come around and explain me to myself!! So ... for the folks out there who have/had X:WP-related web sites, what was *your* favorite piece of clueless flamemail? :) ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Holly Figueroa, 1/26/03 ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:42:26 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena On Saturday 04 January 2003 12:45, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > " Well no, I don't see Xena as mooning after anybody. (This is why I get > peeved when Xena goes mooning after Gabs! :) I don't mind guys > mooning after her. I would. ;)" > > Actually that would have been interesting. We always had some girl just > falling head over heels for Hercules or Captain Kirk. Captain Kirk? Gotta be kidding me, the guy's got all the charisma of.... umm, Ulysses. (IMO, of course ;) > It would have been > nice to see guys just swooning after Xena and she just goes about her > business with a quick kiss and a pat on the fanny for the infatuated guy. > > CherylA > > cr Yes, it would. We *almost* had that in Lyre Lyre, and there was another ep... oh yes (he says, using 'grep' on his transcripts directory) - Xena as Tyrella giving Prince Charming the brushoff in If The Shoe Fits. cr ... "Prime directive be damned - set phasers on 'incinerate' " ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:45:53 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Saturday 04 January 2003 12:42, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > " OK, next question, they weren't by any chance the Bambi antlers that Xena > was wearing as part of her cossie in Sin Trade? D'you suppose, right > after Sin > Trade ended, the Ewokazons got hold of Xena's cossie and incorporated the > antlers as part of their queen's regalia? I do like the idea. " > > Yes I like that idea also. Xena is now a hero and the Amazon copy her > attair in tribute. > > CherylA > > > More viewing necessary! (Grabs stack of tapes and heads for the > > VCR....) > > > cr You know, it's quite remarkably hard to tell. I just checked Sin Trade 1 and Coming Home (only), in both cases Xena and Marga appear to be wearing double (i.e. forked) antlers at the front with a single straight antler behind. But antlers are funny things, their shape changes so much depending on the angle of view. They *could* be the same, I can't be sure. Of course, even if they're not quite identical, I suppose the *style* of the royal antlers could have been passed down as a tradition - whether in tribute to Xena, or just because Yakut copied Xena's shaman gear and it carried on from there. What's the shelf life of antlers? ;) ... Damn. Now I gotta take me a look at Lifeblood.... Yeah. The ghostly Yakut's antlers are the *same pattern*. (I don't think Cyane in that ep was wearing any antlers at all). OK, Kindred Spirits.... drat! The antlers Gabs is wearing in that ep are much longer and have many more branches. (Trust Gabby to spoil my theory! :) Well, two possibilities. Either any old antlers will do, and the fact that Xena, Yakut and Marga are wearing almost identical antlers is just coincidence; or, for some reason, the traditional antlers that Yakut wore were retired for a while, maybe as a mark of respect, after Yakut's death, and reinstated some time in the next 25 years. I like the second theory, I'm a sucker for 'continuity'. Of course, this contradicts my previous conclusion that Marga's tribe was the Greek Amazons, not the Northern Amazons. To return to that discussion - Evidence for Marga's tribe being the Greek Amazons: Cyane (traditional leader of the Northen Amazons) is obviously a visitor in Path of Vengeance Varia is following Ares, a Greek god Bellerophon is making war on the Amazons because of the death of his mother, Artemis (Greek god) The swords in Coming Home were Greek winged Amazon swords (but then, Yakut's Northern Amazons were using those same swords in Kindred Spirits). Later, in Helicon, they were all using the neat little single-edged Mark 2 swords. Livia had attacked Marga's Amazons - it is unlikely Rome's campaigns had got as far as Siberia. Evidence against Marga's tribe being the Greek Amazons: Nowhere did they use the Greek Amazon bird masks. Specifically, the Greek Amazon's queen's mask was a bird mask (e.g. A Necessary Evil). When Varia was named queen in Helicon, there wasn't a bird mask in sight. The Queen's regalia was antlers - this is a very Northen Amazon tradition. Some of this is contradictory. My best suggestion is that, Marga's tribe *is* the Greek Amazons of Ephiny, but in the 25 years since then, they've had considerable contact with the Northen Amazons and adopted some of their regalia; and the Northen Amazons in turn have acquired some of the Greek Amazon swords. (Why the change to the Mark 2 single-edged sword in Helicon I don't know; the first use of one of those swords was by Ephiny in Sky High, but by the time of her death in Endgame she had (IIRC) switched back to a regular winged sword. The next use was in Love Amazon Style, well before the 25-year gap, by a group of definitely Greek Amazons. I can only assume that that group must have standardised on the Mark 2 sword, and maybe when they joined the rest of the Amazons in Helicon, they brough their stock of swords with them and they became standard issue.) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:56:55 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] random amusing flamemail On Saturday 04 January 2003 19:33, meredith wrote: > > So ... for the folks out there who have/had X:WP-related web sites, what > was *your* favorite piece of clueless flamemail? > > :) > I'm embarrassed to say, that my section of the NewXenaland site (http://cr.dingojunction.com/nx/index1.html) has never attracted any decent flames. It has been hacked, though, the root page cr.dingojunction.com/index.html carries some crap about hackers and I can't currently get into the site to fix it 'cos my password doesn't work any more. I'm waiting for support@dingojunction to let me back in. :( I think Whoosh just got spammed, though, and they went and published it on their letters page: From: Nuclear Newt Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 10:18 AM Subject: Hi! My American friends call me Godzilla, The Nuclear Newt. My Japanese homies call me Gojirra. Call me what you will, I want to be YOUR best friend. What do you say? NN cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:29:12 -0500 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 01:45 AM 1/5/03 +1300, you wrote: >On Saturday 04 January 2003 12:42, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "cr" > > Excellent discussion snipped OR it could have been a result of RenPac's notorious frugality. "Let's see what's laying around the prop room, some antlers, a couple of winged swords, crap we need a whole bunch,,, hey grab an armfull of those over there................." LeeD; Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 12:31:42 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL interview in Lesbian Nation Check out this article: http://www.lesbiannews.com/Pages/feature/feature.html Does anyone have the full transcript? XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:30:19 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/4/2003 6:48:32 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > It would have been > > nice to see guys just swooning after Xena and she just goes about her > > business with a quick kiss and a pat on the fanny for the infatuated guy. > > > > CherylA > > > > cr > > Yes, it would. We *almost* had that in Lyre Lyre, and there was another > ep... oh yes (he says, using 'grep' on his transcripts directory) - Xena > as > Tyrella giving Prince Charming the brushoff in If The Shoe Fits. > > Hmmm, seems to me there were other times we saw folks swooning over Xena, like the guy in Chariots. Of course, it was often when they thought she was somebody else -- e.g., Meg, Cherish or a beauty contestant. In Bitter Suite, those soldiers sing about falling for her romantically and in battle. Others (like the guy who "hired" her in Black Wolf) certainly did a bit of leering, though I guess that's not the same as "swooning." Oh, oh! I almost forgot Hower in ADITL -- the ultimate swooner. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:19:32 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Antlers Antlers have a long shelf life as far as I can tell (people have stiffed deer heads for a really long time). As for the Amazons now wearing antlers instead of masks. I can see a practical reason to lose the masks. I'm sure the actors had a tough time seeing in them and they always had to be pushed up to deliver dialog. So antlers are a better choice you just have to be careful not to put someone's eye out. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:28:57 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" " Captain Kirk? Gotta be kidding me, the guy's got all the charisma of.... umm, Ulysses. (IMO, of course ;)" I mentioned Captain Kirk simply that it annoyed me so much that every woman just fell in love with Captain Kirk at first sight and he justed expected every to swoon at his feet. One of my favorite episodes was one where Kirk goes of the seduec the villianess of the week and she just pushed him aside to go after Spock (I was a Spock fan) - I just cheered that developme > > " Yes, it would. We *almost* had that in Lyre Lyre, and there was another ep... oh yes (he says, using 'grep' on his transcripts directory) - Xena as Tyrella giving Prince Charming the brushoff in If The Shoe Fits." Yes but the swoony guys are always jerks (Joxer, Hower) or unsuitable people (like the young kid in Lyre, Lyre). No I want them to be hunky guys so that we really see that Xena is just so damn independent that she just isn't nterested in a long term relationship. Also you notice in buddy flicks the girl usually takes a back seat to the friendship between the guys - so the Xena and Gabrielle friendship would heve been more important that the romantic relationship not because of subtext but simply bacause female bonding in just more important than that mushy stuff. > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:53:14 -0500 (EST) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] LL interview in Lesbian Nation That was very interesting, I never thought Lucy would actually lay it out as black and white as she did here. Like you. I would like to see the entire interview though. There is mention of her next project. Does anyone know what that is? CjL ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 12:51:55 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Sunday 05 January 2003 03:29, Lee Daley wrote: > At 01:45 AM 1/5/03 +1300, you wrote: > >On Saturday 04 January 2003 12:42, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "cr" > > Excellent discussion snipped > > OR it could have been a result of RenPac's notorious frugality. "Let's see > what's laying around the prop room, some antlers, a couple of winged > swords, crap we need a whole bunch,,, hey grab an armfull of those over > there................." > > LeeD; Warrior Jester Oh yeah, that did cross my mind, but that's sort of 'outside' the internal logic of the story, if you follow what I mean. Quite possibly the winged Amazon sword in Kindred Spirits (I saw one, I didn't look to see if there were more) was just a result of someone slipping up and not thinking 'oops these are Northern Amazons'. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:40:49 +1300 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Antlers On Sunday 05 January 2003 11:19, Cheryl Ande wrote: > Antlers have a long shelf life as far as I can tell (people have stiffed > deer heads for a really long time). > > As for the Amazons now wearing antlers instead of masks. I can see a > practical reason to lose the masks. I'm sure the actors had a tough time > seeing in them and they always had to be pushed up to deliver dialog. So > antlers are a better choice you just have to be careful not to put > someone's eye out. > > CherylA Hmmm, well, aside from the 'extraneous' reason of the actors' convenience, I guess the same might also apply to the Amazons themselves. i.e. the Amazons found the masks nothing but a nuisance and decided to drop them. That works for me. And incidentally, only the queen seems to have worn antlers, so there wouldn't have been too many safety hazards. By the way, are there any convenient one-word terms for 'relevant to the internal logic of the show' as contrasted with 'relevant to external production considerations' ? In other words, using antlers as a tradition started by Xena or Yakut, would be the first type, the fact that anctors had to push up the masks every time they spoke would be the second type. But I can't find a convenient word to distinguish the two. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 13:51:58 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena On Sunday 05 January 2003 11:28, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > " Captain Kirk? Gotta be kidding me, the guy's got all the charisma of.... > umm, Ulysses. (IMO, of course ;)" > > I mentioned Captain Kirk simply that it annoyed me so much that every woman > just fell in love with Captain Kirk at first sight and he justed expected > every to swoon at his feet. One of my favorite episodes was one where Kirk > goes of the seduec the villianess of the week and she just pushed him aside > to go after Spock (I was a Spock fan) - I just cheered that developme I have to admit, Spock was the only character I found interesting. I didn't see that ep but I would have enjoyed it I think. > " Yes, it would. We *almost* had that in Lyre Lyre, and there was another > ep... oh yes (he says, using 'grep' on his transcripts directory) - Xena > as Tyrella giving Prince Charming the brushoff in If The Shoe Fits." > > Yes but the swoony guys are always jerks (Joxer, Hower) or unsuitable > people (like the young kid in Lyre, Lyre). No I want them to be hunky guys > so that we really see that Xena is just so damn independent that she just > isn't nterested in a long term relationship. Hmmm. Interesting point. Xena meets nice guy, Xena turns down nice guy because she wants to live her own life? OK. But y'know, that's what I've always thought in regard to her relationship with Gabby, too. :) > Also you notice in buddy > flicks the girl usually takes a back seat to the friendship between the > guys - so the Xena and Gabrielle friendship would heve been more important > that the romantic relationship not because of subtext but simply bacause > female bonding in just more important than that mushy stuff. I agree about avoiding the mushy stuff. Which is why I was happy about Xena and Borias's relationship. Xena - Gabs did have some mushy stuff in it, though. It was rather more than just a 'female buddy' thing. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:14:28 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] This week on the HIST channel I've seen this, but don't recall it being anything special... but then, I've watched anything I could find about Amazons. "Amazon Women" Friday , January 10 07:00 AM - 08:00 AM Central repeats at 1 PM, CST Herodotus wrote of a tribe of men-hating women warriors who cut off the right breast to better aim with bow and arrow. Amazon comes from Greek, meaning "without breast". Tales of fierce female fighters dot history. Are they myth from male-dominated societies on the evil of female rule, or fact, as recent archaeological finds suggest? Tho I didn't care for GURKHAN, this looks intriguing, particularly that "Sultanate of Women". "Harem" Monday , January 06 08:00 PM - 10:00 PM Central repeats at midnight, CST N.B.: 2 hrs. long In the 16th century, Istanbul was the capital of the Ottoman Turks whose conquests stretched from Baghdad to Budapest and included hundreds of women brought as slaves to the imperial harem at Topkapi Palace. But at the imperial palace, sex could equal power, and one woman was about to prove it-- Aleksandra Lisowska, or Hurrem, the Laughing One. This is her story and of the closed world of the Ottoman harem and the century-long Sultanate of Women who followed in her footsteps. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:16:41 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/4/2003 4:27:44 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Also you notice in buddy flicks the > girl usually takes a back seat to the friendship between the guys - so the > Xena and Gabrielle friendship would heve been more important that the > romantic relationship not because of subtext but simply bacause female > bonding in just more important than that mushy stuff. Hear! Hear! Even with female buddy flicks, there's often the understanding that some guy will come along who's more important -- like the friends are just biding their time, supporting each other, until then. I loved the value given to the woman-woman friendships in XWP -- as important in and of themselves, with unique aspects -- not substitutes for "the real thing." There's no way we could've seen that "woman centeredness" with Perdy asking, "Where's dinner?" or Xena as help-mate to Ulysses or Antony. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 00:16:55 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/4/2003 6:54:49 PM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Xena - Gabs did have some mushy stuff in it, > though. It was rather more than just a 'female buddy' thing. And your basis for what goes on between female buddies would be ....? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #3 ************************************