From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #1 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, January 3 2003 Volume 03 : Number 001 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Chakram #20's "Price" [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Fwd: [NewXenaland] Dave & Lucy show tonight [Sojourner] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:48:26 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena On Wednesday 01 January 2003 12:37, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > Well, what held her back then? Why didn't she jump on Rafe's bones for > example? She definitely had a soft spot for him at the end.>> > > The surprise on her face was such that I don't think she really believed > his sincerity until she saw that he'd left those coins behind. Then, it > was like, "Huh. Maybe there was more to him than I gave him credit for." > I got the feeling she had some regrets, but that it was too late or not > enough incentive to go running after him. I liked that it seemed to show a > sad downside to her distrustful nature and that she recognized it as such. > But she might've also recognized that he had his pride, and wouldn't want > to show any more true affection for someone who'd spurned it. He still > had to save face as a con man for his reputation and buddy. This is why I rate King Con much higher than most fans seem to. Because there is more character to Rafe than just a con man, even though he's trying to hide it. (And I think he's not quite sure how Xena is going to regard him. Possibly because Xena isn't entirely sure herself. One of the necessary talents of a con man is to know how his story is going over with the 'other side', and if they're uncertain -as Xena is about him, I think - then he's going to have trouble 'reading' her attitude.) I thought both LL and the actor who played Rafe were very good at showing that little hint of uncertainty. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:54:51 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 31 December 2002 12:26, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > Ares is happy : Xena is back to her old self. She sitting on the arm of > his chair and is just ready to kiss him things turn sour . A ticked off > Gabrielle enters demandining to know what is going here. Res now regreats > saving Gabrielle but this isn't the bard he remembers. Gabrielle says that > is ready to join in the war against the Amzazons. Ares is stunned what > happen to peaceful Gabby - Gabby says she has learned that warriors rule > the world. Gabby now settles herself on Ares knee and with Xena on his > other knee, visions of war, ambrosia and a threesome dance in his head. I thought this was some kind of set-up dreamed up by Xena and Gabby, actually. It was certainly way out of character for Xena and Gabs. I figured they were luring Ares into some kind of trap. > Xena then suggested that once they get the ambrosia they split it > four ways. "Nasty" says a gleeful Ares and off he goes. As he leaves, > Xena, Gabrielle, and Eve turn into the Furies. Alecto is even more estatic > than usual - they will use Ares to kill Xena and maybe even Ares will die > and then they will both avenge the Olympians and rule the world . Of course, when X, G and Eve turned into the Furies, the reason for their odd behaviour became obvious. But I never suspected until it happened. Nice one, Renpics! > > Ares now is back in his tent when the real Xena and Gabrielle show up. > They demand to know what he is doing. Ares confused says just what they > want him to do make war on the Amazons. Gabrielle says he can't do that. > Ares lunges for her saying she was hot for it just a little while ago. A > concerned and confused Xena tries to confront him but Ares says that he > loves her but she is driving him crazy. He then rushes from the tent but > not before warning Gabrielle not to touch him. As a confused Gabrielle > examines the offending hand she pronounces Ares nuts but Xena says he has > some help pushing him that way - the Furies have possessed him Xena could always tell these things.... remember how she could always tell when Ares was around? Obviously it works for the Furies, too. > > As Ares gets ready to lead his troops into battle the real Xena tries to > tell him what is happening. The Furies however also appear to urge him on > to battle. A very confused Ares now has two sets of X & Gs trying to order > him around. Finally the Fury Xena wins the war of wills and Ares sets off > to do battle. Nice the way the Fury Xena simply appeared in front of the real Xena, thereby blocking her from Ares' view. This whole thing was fun to watch. > In the hut Xena asks why Eve didn't tell her about the Amazons. Eve > says she was too ashamed but Xena says she can forgive her and that it is > hard to ask forgiveness. Then Xena turns to Gabrielle and asks Gabrielle > to forgive her for hitting her with the chakram. Gabrielle says she was > attacking Eve and she understands why Xena did what she did - she has > already forgiven her and she should now forgive herself. I thought this > scene was bit awkward and a little out of place. According to Missy Good > it was written on the set because Lucy wanted to address this issue. I > guess it wasn't a bad idea to at least mention Gabrielle's chak attack , > although I think they could have worked it in better. They could have > chosen the couple of times Gabby flinched when the chakram wizzed by her > head to perhaps bring up the issue. . I thought it rather came out of the blue. And I would have thought they'd sorted it out rather earlier - that is, some time in between Motherhood and Coming Home. Besides, apologies on screen always sound rather lame. > > The Amazons now decide to now meet Ares army. Xena pleads with them to let > her handle Ares - that he is mad and the Amazons are no match for his army. > The Amazons, of course, don't listen and off they go. Ares and his army > are unimpressed with the Amazons - when they say they will fight to the > death Ares asks what will he do for the rest of the afternoon. As Ares is > about raise his sword in rides Xena. She now taunts Ares - she will fight > him. Ares has had enough of all his Xenas and he takes her on. They take > their fighting stance and Xena knocks him on his butt. Ares is furious and > he is further enraged when Xena points out to his men that he is bleeding > and Gods don't bleed. Xena then takes off on her horse with Ares chasing > after her on his horse. Ares men , deserted by their commander, are run > off by the Amazons. Ares' line 'What will I do the rest of the afternoon' was a classic. And just after that, Xena's war cry is heard and Ares turns his head away in disgust as if to say "Not again!" Nice acting. And some more nice lines: Xena: This is between you and me. Ares: Yeah, yeah, take a number, I'll get to you. I did like Queen Marga's performance in that scene. When Xena appeared and started taunting Ares, Marga looked keenly interested, slightly bemused, as if she wasn't sure what was going on but figured it was probably to the Amazons advantage, then when Ares dashed off after Xena, Marga looks quizzically at Ares men as if to say "Okay, what are you going to do now?" They take the hint and start to retreat. > Ares enraged knocks Xena into the frozen lake and taunts Xena as she > drowns beneath the ice. The Furies now leave Ares to celebrate but their > joy is literally cut short when the chakram appears and lops off their > heads. I thought it blew them up, actually. That was the first occasion, IIRC, when the chacky developed superpowers. That is, on every previous occasion, its flight could be accounted for by a series of bounces (even if impossibly long and complex like Been There Done That), but this time, it was just gone too long. > > This is a very good episode but it is one that really must be watched - a > synopsis even really long one doesn't do it justice. Much of the enjoyment > comes from Kevin Smith's wonderful performance. He is funny as the poor > mad Ares trying to deal with the demons in his head - he is full of > wisecracks and non-sequitors. Both LL , ROC, and Aw have a good time as > the Furies - they seem to enjoy their flirtation with Ares. The direction > was especially good - before it is revealed that Ares is mad the camera > work is just enough off that you feel something is wrong. The transition from LL, ROC and AW to the Furies was very smoothly done, too. Kudos to the special effects people (or whoever it is does that sort of thing). > Notes: Margo is wearing Gabrielle's antlers from Kindred Spirits. So I'm > not sure which Amazons theses are. Northern Amazons or Greek Amazons I'm inclined to think, Greek Amazons. Let's see now - Livia attacked their tribe in the past. I doubt if her armies ever got as far as Siberia or the Steppes, so presumably it wasn't the Northern Amazons she attacked. Hence these are Greek Amazons. Also, in the later ep, Path of Vengeance (I think?), the Northern Amazon leader is called Cyane, (following the tradition first encountered in Sin Trade), and she disagrees with the bloodthirsty Varia over killing prisoners. So Varia (and Marga)'s tribe must be the Greek Amazons. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:43:52 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > > > I'll disagree right back. The archers got her i.e. they scored a > > > considerable number of hits, and if they hadn't stopped (presumably > > > because the 'infantry' were too close to her) I think they could probably > > > have killed her with arrow fire alone. And Xena never got close enough > > > to damage the archers. > > > > There were arrows flying at her in Eternal bonds too. And pikes, and > > swords, probably a few helmets, etc. But that day she needed to get away. > > So she did. > > Now was it you, or someone else, who said they had a big problem with that > particular battle, in terms of Xena managing to defeat the enemy? > > cr > > Yup, because of the bogus extension of time they gave her AFTER Ares snapped them all back to the present. That's what the problem is--they could have written her defeating them without that sloppy gap. As they did so many times before when it didn't stick out like a sore thumb. They could have just had her leap up into the tree directly and chakram out the three leaders. That silly extended lapse of time was what made that fight so obviously bogus. Even better would have been if while Ares was talking to her, trying to persuade her to take off with him, she was using the frozen time to prepare the Eve's sling and the ropes. That would have made a delicious subtext, "Yeah, yeah, I'm listening. BUT I'm still working on plan B." Sure we got Xena ex machina solutions all the time, but we're not supposed to realize this the FIRST time we watch an ep. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:43:08 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Flirty Xena In a message dated 1/2/2003 6:14:07 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > I rate King Con much higher than most fans seem to. Because > there is more character to Rafe than just a con man, even though he's trying > > to hide it. (And I think he's not quite sure how Xena is going to regard > him. Possibly because Xena isn't entirely sure herself. One of the > necessary talents of a con man is to know how his story is going over with > the 'other side', and if they're uncertain -as Xena is about him, I think - - > then he's going to have trouble 'reading' her attitude.) > > I thought both LL and the actor who played Rafe were very good at showing > that little hint of uncertainty. > Excellent point. Xena also prides herself on being able to "cess" folks -- as necessary to her vocation as it is to Rafe's. I watched "King Con" again because of this thread. Admittedly, it's not one of those eps I feel compelled to review. I found myself really appreciating the subtle interplay between Xena and Rafe, the way the "certainty" shifted -- about who was in the driver's seat, about the other's response, about their own motives and vulnerability, about the nature and purpose of "winning." I was reminded that they were about to kiss -- genuinely on each's part, it seemed -- before a serving lady interrupted them. Xena indeed seemed ready to succumb (at least momentarily), as was Rafe, even though each would be giving in to the other, despite their original certainty that they wouldn't. In essence, they got fooled (conned) by their own arrogant cynicism and ended up feeling "sappy" emotions neither trusted. In the end, we see them affectionately admiring each other's con skills, in terms of the mission. But they part somewhat regretfully, having not explored the personal enjoyment possible. I agree with you that this is one of those standalone eps with its own little gems and lessons. It also adds a human touch, in terms of Xena's confidence that she has all the answers. I like it when she learns something about herself and others from someone she judged unworthy to teach her anything. Her slow smile at the very end suggests that she's glad both she and Rafe learned their hearts weren't as calloused as they'd thought. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:59:16 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Chakram #20's "Price" > Just got my Chakram #20, which has a great interview with Steve Sears about > THE PRICE. But what I like even more are photos I don't recall seeing > published before of feral Xena. Oooo. She's crawling through the dirt > outside the fort, checking for a pulse on any of the Horde bodies. Standing > over the leader, taunting him to get up. A couple of shots are of her during > the fight inside the fort, one with ax in hand (which maybe will find its way > into a calendar some day, hint hint), though not where she's slitting that > guy's throat. Sorry, Lilli, but I just love Bad Girl Xena. I mean, > what would Good Girl Xena be, without the potential to slip back into the > part of herself she thought she wouldn't need any more? > > -- Ife Exactly how I feel--this was a HUGE part I think of what made Xena so fascinating a character. We all know what she's capable of. And how much effort it took her to overcome those tendencies. I'm traveling and don't have the issue with me. But I remember being VERY struck and delighted with a new picture of Lucy and Rob that was in this issue. Happily, Mary D has it posted on her site: http://ausxip.com/lawless/picturearchive/robandlucy/cal2003P030.jpg I love this shot. This is just such a great partner picture to me. They just look so glad to be together. There's a real sense of joy and happiness, a feeling of what good friends they are to each other, how much they enjoy being together and how much fun they have when they are. The reason I'm happy to see them so happy is that this is the duo who brought us Xena, the person who created her and spun her story and the person who brought her to life. And I shall be eternally grateful to them. What an incredible achievement-and how kewl it must be for them to know that they did it together. What a bonus to have been able to create such a incredible character who became an iconic emblem of powerful women everywhere. And doing so while working with the person you love. Way cool. This picture to me just glows with that sense of accomplishment and the joy that it has given to them to have done it. (In actuality of course, they were probably just plotting some practical joke they were going to play on some poor soul later that night...) KT Who is refusing to be drawn into any OT meanderings about my spheres and/or my HAIR! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:06:45 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: [chakram-refugees] Fwd: [NewXenaland] Dave & Lucy show tonight Passed on with permission - on ya Carolyn! >The Dave & Lucy-Rock-Chick Show > >Last night I made it to The Lucy & Dave Summer Tour at the Silverdale Wade >Hotel. Silverdale is a nothing town a little north of Auckland and about >30-40 minutes drive from where I live. > >The Wade Hotel is a pretty ordinary barn of a place that opens into a >grassed yard where there was a little stage set up. People were queuing for >drinks. There was a table outside where some people were barbequing >sausages, wrapping them in a piece of white bread with a dollop of onions & >tomato sauce - and this food seemed to be very popular. It was an assorted >crowd in ages and levels of coolness. This was a real Kiwi summer hols laid >back social get together - probably not a lot else to do in Silverdale. > >It's been brilliant weather - sunny and hot for the last few days and >Silverdale is close to some holiday beaches. > >It was possible to walk in after most of the crowd, and sit on a piece of >grass a yard or two from the little stage. Most people seemed to be happy >to be away from the stage drinking and chatting while they waited for the >acts to start. > >When Anika came on a bunch of young people at the front decided to stand up. >I was a little pissed, expecting to be able to sit back, with a good view >and enjoy a relaxed show. I was wrong. Anika Moa was a bit boring IMO. And >when Dave came on stage the rest of us decided to join the young folks >standing. I moved a little forward to get in front of the big guys - not a >densely-packed crowd - lots of space to move. That's how I ended up >standing in the front row, right in front of the little thigh-high fence >about 2 feet from the stage. Dave & Lucy's mics were on the other side of >the stage from me - about a yard or two away. > >The band was 2 guitars, drums and a guy on the key boards. Dave was mostly >on a (3rd) guitar, sometimes on a second key board, and sometimes standing >singing with a tambourine. Lucy was on a tambourine & maracas. > >Dave sang a couple of songs first, then he introduced Lucy & the crowd gave >a big cheer. She came on stage and launched straight into a rocking version >of "Maxine". She had on black hipster trousers, trainers (heh - those white >shoes) and a different top from the piccies Liz showed. She had a white >halter-neck top that came down about to the top of her trousers - most of >the time - she was jigging about a lot and wiggling her hips. I do believe >she was also wearing a bra under the top, with black and white horizontal >stripes. > >The music was mostly up-beat and quite rocky - more than I'd expected from >Dave knowing what he was like on disc. I was also surprised how much the >young folks around the front were into both Dave and Lucy. We all were >jiggling up and down in time to most of the songs, and the crowd around me >were singing along with a lot of Dave's songs, and also to Lucy's ones. > >Mostly Lucy was back-up vocalist, and really I couldn't tell how good she >was. The band was loud, and Dave's voice came across more loud and clear >than Lucy's, and the crowd around me were also singing loudly a lot of the >time. > >After Lucy did back-up on a few Dave songs, Dave announced Lucy was going to >do a song - to a loud cheer from the crowd. Then Lucy did a really rocking >version of "I'm Special" (Pretenders). I've been to a few Lucy singing gigs >around Auckland over the last few years, but I've never seen her looking so >loose, happy and smiling. She really seemed to be enjoying her self, >playing the rocker chick. She sounded really good on "I'm Special" - >performed it well - a bit sassy in the facial expressions and body moves. > >Then some more of Dave singing, and Lucy backing up, til Dave announced the >next song was about weapons of mass destruction. This was done more as a >Lucy and Dave duet, with each of them doing some lines solo and some >together. It was "Oliver's Army (Elvis Costello Song) - again a very >upbeat, rockin' version, with the crowd dancing and singing along. Lucy had >a bit of rapport with some of the crowd in front of her at times, waving her >arm in the air, mimicking them and pointing and smiling at individuals while >she was singing. Some of the guys were calling out "Lucy" every so often. > >Lucy also did a song that I didn't know. You may know it. I think it >started, "Don't you touch my leg " [or you'll want to touch my thigh]. She >did it very vamp-style. Throughout the gig she'd been wearing a lei >(spelling - Hawaiian colourful thing), that had been hanging on her mic. >During this song she took it off and used it like clothing taken off in a >strip tease, and she did a stripper-type dance around the stage - who said >Lucy can't dance!!! The crowd loved it and were whooping and yelling. > >The Dave & Lucy stint lasted about an hour and a half, then they did a least >20 minutes of encores, finishing just before midnight. Before Dave started >on his first encore, he thanked Lucy - said she was a really good singer and >a "good bloke" too. Lucy responded by flexing her arm, and then holding her >hands in front of the zip of her trousers, like she was holding a d.dd... >ermm. an appendage. Dave told people to try to get on with their families >over the hols, along with a string of things he wished to happen for people >including not getting sand up their cracks. > >I had expected it to be more laid-back country than rock. But Dave's voice >live seemed a little more raw blues and rock than from what I'd heard of him >on disc. The Dave & Lucy show was a helluva lot more fun than I'd really >expected. > >Carolyn S ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:31:09 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" " I thought this was some kind of set-up dreamed up by Xena and Gabby, actually. It was certainly way out of character for Xena and Gabs. I figured they were luring Ares into some kind of trap. " Oh yes when I first saw the episode I was vey confused. I didn't understand what Xena and Gabrielle were doing at all. I also wondered wht the camera was shooting at such odd angles and why the close ups of Ares were slightly distorted. Of course when the Furies pop upped it was all explained but the Ren prople were very tricky here! " Xena could always tell these things.... remember how she could always tell when Ares was around? Obviously it works for the Furies, too." Well not always. She only figured out the Furies were in Gabrielle's head after she fractured her skull - it would saved herself< Gabby and Eve a world of hurt if she could have sensed The Furies a little sooner. > > > " I thought it rather came out of the blue. And I would have thought they'd sorted it out rather earlier - that is, some time in between Motherhood and Coming Home. Besides, apologies on screen always sound rather lame." Yeah it seemed from Gabrielle's response to the apology that it seems they had already discussed it offscreen. It was awkward because there was just no set up for it. > > "I did like Queen Marga's performance in that scene. " I liked Queen Marga also. I was sorry to see here go in Dangerous Prey. Apparently the Amazon's have the bad luck of loosing their best queens. " I thought it blew them up, actually." I though they blew-up when their heads were cut off. " That was the first occasion, IIRC, when the chacky developed superpowers. That is, on every previous occasion, its flight could be accounted for by a series of bounces (even if impossibly long and complex like Been There Done That), but this time, it was just gone too long." It did linger out there for a bit. I assumed it was just careening off rocks - they were up in the mountains. So perhpas Xena figured out just how long she was going to play with Ares before she let him knock into the pond and then drown. Knowing once she was dead the Furies would leave Ares to gloat the chakram then could return (don't ask how she would know just where they would stand to that gloating because I don't know). > > " I'm inclined to think, Greek Amazons." You are obvious right but it doesn't explain where Marga got Gabby's antlers - perhaps they were a gift from Cyane who thought they looked really stupid on Gabrielle so sent them off as a diplomatic gift. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:00:36 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Flirty Xena I have been following the Xena and her lack of lovers thread and I do agree that Xena as a character has a lot of psychological reason for being a little leery about sexual encounters but I think from a practical point of view there were good reasons for keeping Xena a bit reticent about getting Xena romantically involved too often. First as much we may not like it there is a different standard for woman than for men. Hercules or Iolus could have the girl of the week and we see that as an indication of their manliness. Now reverse that, if Xena and Gabrielle were off with a different guy each week we have a pretty icky feeling that our gals were just a tad immoral if not trampy. Sexual relations for a woman usually must be tied to strong romantic feelings - Gabrielle married Perdicus, Marcus was Xena true love (for that season), Ulysses wanted to stay with her, even Borias tried his damnest to "make an honest woman" of her once a child was on the way. Promiscuous sex and being a female hero and role model hardly go hand in hand in television land. Also I think it would have gotten pretty boring after a while if every week we had our gals mooning after some guy each week. One of the things I liked about Xena is that it was very female centered - the woman in the show were not obsessed about their love life - they weren't concerned about not having husbands or boyfriends. They men they were attracted to were those that respected their independence and always treated them as equals. These guys however were few and far between. Hercules, Marcus, Ares and Antony appreciated Xena because she was their equal in all respects and they had to work hard to prove they were worthy of her. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #1 ************************************