From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #354 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, December 27 2002 Volume 02 : Number 354 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Lena, Warrior Lifeguard ["Cheryl Ande" > [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] <> [Lilli Sprintz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > When Ares did the freeze frame thing, that was a cool effect. But there's > > a guy there like 10 feet or so from Xena. Yet when he releases them all, > > Xena has time to make a little sling for Eve, get her into it and then > > haul her up into the tree and then stand ready to fight. NO WAY!!! > > > > You know, that crazy cozies thread about Alainis and her gals got me thinking > about just how much XWP got me to suspend my disbelief. It's interesting to > see what one person accepts, which another person finds too unbelievable. I > can't begin to count the fight scenes I thought were just as nutty as the one > in EB. > > My personal favorite was how the bad guys' armor meant squat when going up > against the good guys. Take helmets. I cracked up every time Xena > head-butted somebody with one on, or when Gabs' staff, rocks, Solstice toys, > and even fruit could knock somebody out. In "Dirty Half Dozen," Xena > effectively punches folks wearing souped-up metal that arrows bounce off. I > used to wonder why TPTB gave so much attention to the details of the bad > guys' protective weapons and wear, considering how useless that was in a > battle with Xena. After awhile, I felt no more dramatic tension in the fact > that she faced soldiers armed to the teeth, than if they'd been in their > birthday suits (which probably would've been scarier). > > - Ife I think the difference to me is that those bits are SUPPOSED to be funny. Xena cracking her head against anybody's head, helmetted or not always made me laugh. And her punching anybody out was a given. That scene in FIN when she's taking on the guys in the forge and that one big guy just takes a couple of hits from her fist and is still standing, I love how Lucy kinds of stops for a second, stares in a kind of surprise at her fist as if she's saying, "What's wrong--why did you stop working?" and then tries hitting him again, which does bring him down. Hilarious. But in EB, I think the set-up was too serious and too much had been made about the four armies coming for Xena and Eve. Xena should have devised a more clever getaway. That was just too dumb without being fun for me to either enjoy it or just shrug it off as, "Oh. Another fight scene." (Fast forward.) And you're right--I think this is a personal "line in the sand" thing. I never minded anything she did with the Chakram--I loved the bit in Been There Done That where the wild Chakram toss saved the day--I thought it kazinging in the doorway, making pinball machine noises as it slammed back and forth was absolutely hysterical. (Note: Been There, Done That has one of my absolute favorite sub-text lines. I about died laughing when the young guy in the loft looks down and addresses Xena as, "Sweet equestrian." I love the look Lucy puts on Xena's face as she takes in the fact that he was probably in the loft all night as she and Gabrielle slept below him in the hay. And just what riding feat of Xena's was he referring to there? Hmmm?) But again, Been There Done That was a pure and often foolish comedy--one of my favorites, but hardly logical in any way. So a silly solution fit that one. But EB was more serious in general and the serious stakes had been drummed very high, precisely because so many people were coming for Xena. And then that was just tossed aside--"Well, she can beat hundreds of people." Yeah, she can, so then why was SHE so worried? Perhaps it just showed that the "stakes" were never really high--Xena would always win. And where's the dramatic tension in that? KT Who also loved Xena's map leap to the doomed ship in Cecrops. Shrug. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:21:48 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > > > Obviously Gabrielle who has been traveling for 5 years with Xena is > > > unable to tell north (this of coursed has been known to happen to > > > experienced woodsmen in heavily forested areas but this doesn't seem to > > > be the case here - it appears it is plot device ). > > > > I almost wonder if it wasn't an in joke on Renee--being a North American > > makes having the sun in the North most of the day rather confusing when > > trying to figure out "which way is North?". > > Okay, so how *do* you tell which way is North (if the sun's behind clouds)? It ain't behind clouds every day, Thel! > Having a 'feel' for the lie of the land is different, but 'North' is really a > rather artificial concept, actually rather more important to us these days if > we're using maps. IMO. > > cr > Oh I would strongly disagree with that. Without maps, the position of the sun at particular times of day is even more important than with maps. So I would agree, "Where's North" doesn't matter, but navigating by the sun and the stars is extremely important. Cultures made much more fuss about East and West--burials and orientation of doors were more about either facing towards or away from the sun's rising and setting than about almost anything else. EXCEPT for areas of high wind--doors were almost always away from that direction (which of course, worldwide, is generally east or west--the flows just go that way, due to the shape of our world.) And knowing which part of the sky the sun would be pounding from all day is very important in desert areas. And in the far north, where building a home on the south side of a hill is valuable in getting as much heat and light in winter as one can. It makes a perceptible difference in temperature over the course of the season to be on the south side. (Or in the far south, on the north side.) So knowing how to use and work with the natural elements of your landscape was very imporant, more important in the old days, before air conditioning and central heating made some of this stuff kind of moot points. And before the Christian religion took over and banished all those Sun worshipping/following pagan beliefs. And folks still do use at least east/west as orientation points to "understand" a landscape. In summer up here, the sun rises in the north north east and sets in the north north west. And it blows the tourists away. I can't tell you how many times I've had folks come up to me and ask me where North is because, "I'm all confused because the sun rises and sets in the same place up here." KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:25:23 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > KT > Who also loved Xena's map leap to the doomed ship in Cecrops. Shrug. Whoops! MaD leap, not maP leap... KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:24:54 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lena, Warrior Lifeguard I just watched and it was very good. Lena was a bit rough on her charges but I wish I had a chakram that could deliver beer. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:30:13 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 12/26/02 8:09:22 AM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: << EB was more serious in general and the serious stakes had been drummed very high, precisely because so many people were coming for Xena. And then that was just tossed aside--"Well, she can beat hundreds of people." Yeah, she can, so then why was SHE so worried? Perhaps it just showed that the "stakes" were never really high--Xena would always win. And where's the dramatic tension in that? >> Um, KT? Was there any ep -- "serious" or otherwise -- when we knew Xena couldn't defeat even a thousand archers with a baby or one hand tied to her back? Heck, if I'd looked for dramatic tension (or even logic) in any of the battle scenes, I'd've been sadly disappointed. But, as you say, to each her own. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:40:52 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 12/26/02 10:17:26 AM Central Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: << > > LOL! No, I had SOMEONE else in mind, who doesn't think much of Gabby's > > bardly skills. > > > > -- Ife > > Ah. KT. > > cr HA! KT hehhehehheh >> Exactly. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:25:57 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 27 December 2002 12:30, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/26/02 8:09:22 AM Central Standard Time, > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > << EB was more serious in general and the serious stakes had > been drummed very high, precisely because so many people were coming for > Xena. And then that was just tossed aside--"Well, she can beat hundreds of > people." Yeah, she can, so then why was SHE so worried? Perhaps it just > showed that the "stakes" were never really high--Xena would always win. > And where's the dramatic tension in that? >> > > Um, KT? Was there any ep -- "serious" or otherwise -- when we knew Xena > couldn't defeat even a thousand archers with a baby or one hand tied to her > back? Yeah, Friend in Need. One thing not even Xena could defeat was archers. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:50:48 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 27 December 2002 03:21, KTL wrote: > > > > Obviously Gabrielle who has been traveling for 5 years with Xena is > > > > unable to tell north (this of coursed has been known to happen to > > > > experienced woodsmen in heavily forested areas but this doesn't seem > > > > to be the case here - it appears it is plot device ). > > > > > > I almost wonder if it wasn't an in joke on Renee--being a North > > > American makes having the sun in the North most of the day rather > > > confusing when trying to figure out "which way is North?". > > > > Okay, so how *do* you tell which way is North (if the sun's behind > > clouds)? > > It ain't behind clouds every day, Thel! One assumes it was, on the occasion in question. > > Having a 'feel' for the lie of the land is different, but 'North' is > > really a rather artificial concept, actually rather more important to us > > these days if we're using maps. IMO. > > > > cr > > Oh I would strongly disagree with that. Without maps, the position of the > sun at particular times of day is even more important than with maps. So I > would agree, "Where's North" doesn't matter, but navigating by the sun and > the stars is extremely important. Cultures made much more fuss about East > and West--burials and orientation of doors were more about either facing > towards or away from the sun's rising and setting than about almost > anything else. EXCEPT for areas of high wind--doors were almost always > away from that direction (which of course, worldwide, is generally east or > west--the flows just go that way, due to the shape of our world.) Yeah *but* - I wonder how much townies used to know about all that? Or was it left to the high priests? > And knowing which part of the sky the sun would be pounding from all day > is very important in desert areas. And in the far north, where building a > home on the south side of a hill is valuable in getting as much heat and > light in winter as one can. It makes a perceptible difference in > temperature over the course of the season to be on the south side. (Or in > the far south, on the north side.) Yeah but Gabby didn't come from a desert or the far north. She came from Poteidaia, which is on a peninsula sticking out into the sea, where the directions of places would be better indicated as up or down the coast. Admittedly when at sea, it's vitally important to know where North is, but the ways of doing so are quite different from the ways of finding north on land, I suspect. > So knowing how to use and work with the natural elements of your > landscape was very imporant, more important in the old days, before > air conditioning and central heating made some of this stuff kind of moot > points. And before the Christian religion took over and banished all those > Sun worshipping/following pagan beliefs. > > And folks still do use at least east/west as orientation points to > "understand" a landscape. In summer up here, the sun rises in the > north north east and sets in the north north west. And it blows the > tourists away. I can't tell you how many times I've had folks come up to > me and ask me where North is because, "I'm all confused because the sun > rises and sets in the same place up here." Well, yes, it is rather odd that (for you) the sun rises north of east, and sets north of west, yet at midday it's south of you. And the further north you go, the further to the north it rises. (In summer at least). This is a weird bit of 3-D geometry consequent on us being on a spherical planet. The best way to visualise it is with one of those old-fashioned globes on an angled mounting, with a light bulb off to one side. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:37:21 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 27 December 2002 03:08, KTL wrote: > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > > > I think the difference to me is that those bits are SUPPOSED to be funny. > Xena cracking her head against anybody's head, helmetted or not always > made me laugh. And her punching anybody out was a given. That scene in FIN > when she's taking on the guys in the forge and that one big guy just takes > a couple of hits from her fist and is still standing, I love how Lucy > kinds of stops for a second, stares in a kind of surprise at her fist as > if she's saying, "What's wrong--why did you stop working?" and then tries > hitting him again, which does bring him down. Hilarious. Yeah, loved that whole scene. But then, Xena in a bikini - what's not to like? > But in EB, I think the set-up was too serious and too much had been made > about the four armies coming for Xena and Eve. Xena should have devised a > more clever getaway. That was just too dumb without being fun for me to > either enjoy it or just shrug it off as, "Oh. Another fight scene." (Fast > forward.) Agreed. I guess we're used to Xena battling off hordes of thugs, but I guess that was maybe a bit too much. A bit like the notorious old 'with one bound, he was free' that they used to get the hero out of cliffhangers in the old serials. Of course, XWP literally did that, too, in Sacrifice, when Xena's dangling off a cliff hanging onto the wretched Seraphin and Callisto asks her "how are you ever going to get out of this?" And Xena hurls the wretched Seraphin onto the clifftop and follows herself. Yep. > (Note: Been There, Done That has one of my absolute favorite sub-text > lines. I about died laughing when the young guy in the loft looks down > and addresses Xena as, "Sweet equestrian." Umm, no, I took it that he said 'Sweet Equestria', which I assumed to be the god of horses or horsey things. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:50:07 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> hi everone, Meredith said, >>I didn't think it was that out of character. After what happened with >>Hope, it made sense to me that Gabrielle would have a raging maternal >>instinct toward Eve, up to and including roughing up anyone who would cause harm to her. >> cr said, > >Well, I still found it surprising. > the word that comes to mind is irritated. Gabrielle was irritated with the situation, and lost her cool. for a good reason, i would add. perhaps as meredith said, because she had no patience with someone who was willing to feed a child to the proverbial cuthroat warriors/gods. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #354 **************************************