From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #349 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, December 23 2002 Volume 02 : Number 349 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amphipolis again [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 21:31:29 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amphipolis again On Sunday 22 December 2002 13:24, Cheryl Ande wrote: > KTL wrote: > > > "Who knows--Lucy may have been highly amused at the dumb outfits they put > those guys into and the mascara on Alainis. She was just so GIRLY!!!!! > Speaking of which, there's a blooper bit that shows that--the actress is > using her little finger to fix her eye make-up just before she stomps down > into a fighting stance. Perhaps Lucy was responding to this attitude on > her part?" > > Who says that was blooper? Just because your one of Athena's soldiers > doesn't mean you can't have a taste for a nice bit of eye-liner. You know > you're going out, meeting lots of new people - Oh that reminds me of a tagline I saw once - "Join the Army. Meet interesting people. Kill them." ;) > a girl just wants to look > her best. Afterall didn't Athena just spring for those nifty outfits and > cute hats. Just because you're out slaughting babies doesn't mean you have > to let yourself go. > > CherylA I vote for KT's theory - that LL was having trouble keeping a straight face, looking at Ilainis's cossie. Athena's crack troops looked liked extras from some sci-fi B-movie. Barbarella, maybe. (And if you haven't seen Barbarella, well..... I like Jane Fonda, but how she kept a straight face in the face of the corniest 'special FX' ever committed to screen, I just do not know. The Green Egg Men were the epitome of gritty realism by comparison.) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 12:30:36 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Cheryl Ande wrote: > @ > @ > @ > @@ > > > Once again this episode is much better that I remembered. It is an > interesting character study of Xena, Ares, Gabrielle, and Joxer. You know, this one will never reach anywhere near my top ten list, but when I rewatched it last week, it was somewhat better than I remembered. My main complaint about it was just that totally too stupid to be remotely realistic ending. ARMIES of people marching on one woman and her child and Xena STILL prevails. Why? Because of that dumb "one at a time" tradition of enemies taking a hack at Xena. When Ares did the freeze frame thing, that was a cool effect. But there's a guy there like 10 feet or so from Xena. Yet when he releases them all, Xena has time to make a little sling for Eve, get her into it and then haul her up into the tree and then stand ready to fight. NO WAY!!! I don't expect a LOT of realism from XWP and most times I can blow things like this off without any worry--but this was just toooooo dumb to swallow. It "cheated". Hordes of soldiers after her to build the tension and then an totally unbelievable escape. Just didn't work for me. One of the things I always loved about watching XWP was how it sucked me totally in. I was IMMOBILE on the couch whenever I watched the first run eps. (I'm still mostly immobile on repeats--I STILL can't just put one on and putter around--I can't stand to not WATCH the eps intently every time I put them on. Heh.) But this was just too damn silly--threw me right outta the scene, totally unsuspended my disbelief. Now this didn't stop me from replaying the Xena/Ares scenes a coupla times again. And the Xena warning Eve of the treachery of your mind at times...grin. I always loved how Xena acted with Eve--always treated her like a small person, not really a mindless, helpless, unevolved blob of humanity like some folks do to babies. The hot smooching, nipple biting sequences with Ares were very surprising--and I thought the "Gotcha!" at the end when Xena gasped awake and we realized it was just a dream was as hilarious and as "D'oh!" making as when the back of Xena's head during her lean towards Gabrielle in The Quest rotated into being the back of Autolycus' head by the end of the liplock. Got me both times... > > Meanwhile as Xena deals with a sexy Ares, Gabrielle deals with Joxer. > Gabrielle finally feels guilty about how she is treating him and > declares herself a bitch. I think Renee's acting was extrememly good in her scenes with Ted in this one. I actually rewound their scenes while re-watching this last week. (I think rewinding a non-Lucy scene is a FIRST for me!) Renee plays Gabrielle's move from being mostly annoyed and not thinking Joxer's wound is very serious to realizing that she's got a real problem on her hands here very well. I thought it was excellent how she read the "Good morning" line. She's kind of poking at Joxer to see if he's okay and acting distracted and miffed that she's "here" and not with X&E and then when he kind of calls her back to the scene, she does a very natural mental return to the scene at hand, with that emphasized, "Good MORNing" and a nodding physical reaction also. I've seen people do stuff like that in real life. Nice acting. > Obviously Gabrielle who has been traveling for 5 years with Xena is unable to > tell north (this of coursed has been known to happen to experienced woodsmen > in heavily forested areas but this doesn't seem to be the case here - it > appears it is plot device ). I almost wonder if it wasn't an in joke on Renee--being a North American makes having the sun in the North most of the day rather confusing when trying to figure out "which way is North?". > At this point Joxerfans usually declare Gabrielle a bitch. In fact Gabrielle > does the best she can - she doesn't love the guy what else can she do. No one > ever comes off well declaring their non-love for someone - especially if the > other person is nice and kind of pathetic. Gabrielle is brave enough to say > no - yes it takes a kind of bravery to break a pure heart - and free Joxer > from his unrequited love. Yeah--I think what she did was honorable. But her timing was a little poor. At that time he might well have died. I think perhaps that could be why folks got upset? She could have fobbed off the full answer until later. It was a good scene though and I didn't really think poorly of it when I first saw it. I've always thought that Gabrielle seems to tend to love "humanity" in the abstract, rather than individuals. Except of course for Xena. After losing her childish hero worship of Xena and after giving her hell in season four, she seems to settle back down and know absolutely that this woman is a gift in her life and not one to be taken lightly. Though, it being Xena, she can take her for granted all she wants to--Xena loves Gabrielle directly, concretely and absolutely. And I don't think that ever changed or ever will. > Baby Eve is a wonderful character (well as much > as a baby can be a character). They got some real kewl baby reaction scenes in season five. They had some cute and expressive little nipper babies playing Eve. I loved Xena's tender lullaby that segues into > a fight utilizing impressively large diaper pins and a dirty diaper (germ > warfare). LOL! Kazing! Alright! That's all I have to say on that one. Next! KT > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:02:05 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Whoops! No it wasn't! On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/10/2002 5:08:44 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > Baby Eve is a wonderful character (well as much > > as a baby can be a character). I loved Xena's tender lullaby that segues > > into > > a fight utilizing impressively large diaper pins and a dirty diaper (germ > > warfare). > > LOL! Yes, Xena's little instructions to Eve about fighting and setting false > trails (not to mention using whatever you have at your ... disposal ... as a > weapon) were cute. But isn't this also the ep where blood gets on Eve? And > Ares uses that in his argument with Xena? I thought it added at least a > touch of realism, in recognition that a baby in the middle of bloodbaths > wasn't exactly without ramifications, even if the fights were for good > purposes. I remember wondering at the time whether the blood that got on Eve > (whichever ep that happened in) would be referred to later, but apparently > her young exposure to that wasn't what came back to haunt them later. > > -- Ife Hmmmmm. That would have been interesting. But I think it would have worked against Xena being meant to be a warrior, which is what season four validated. It would have made her have to consider to choose being hidden away safely with Eve over fighting for the greater good--a choice that didn't enter into the mix until Eve was a (damaged) adult. And I just LOVED it that Rob and Lucy gave us first a pregnant action adventure hero and then a warrior momma. What an incredible thing to have done--to not have ignored Lucy's pregnancy, which COULD have possibly worked--hell, PacRen was full of wizards and magicians--they could have made ANYTHING work. (So long as Lucy believed in it and presented it--grin) And what a great image that was. A pregnant woman who was not shown as ill or seriously weakened for most of her pregnancy and who just blithely continued her work, physically demanding and challenging as it was. Like peasant women have done since time immemorial. (Of course, most peasant women do die young...) And then after the baby was born, continuing to just casually do her job and work out how to include having the baby in her working life. I love the scene in Kindred Spirits? when Xena invents the Johnny jump-up baby swing. And of course she makes the baby sling real early on. However, real moms sometimes do tend to back off from dangerous stuff for a little while anyway. And not a lot of moms would put their babies into so much danger. But we all know how THICK Xena is and just how deep her guilt pit is. But even more--the gods were after her, trying to kill her child first with their priests and soldiers and then they themselves came after Eve. Xena honestly had no choice but to face them and kill them all. She couldn't have left Eve anywhere--who safer to be protecting Eve than Xena herself? And I think this blood on Eve thing was being addressed at the end when Xena says, "Perhaps the greater wrong is never to fight at all, huh?" Which I think is very true. But then they go and kind of lamely add: Xena: "You know what? I think-- it doesn't matter WHERE we take a stand. As long as we make one." I don't agree with that. And then the three doubles drudge off across the sand. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:33:19 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # # This is a rip roaring action packed episode. It has no less than three terrific fight scenes, great performances, and the extra added spice of a fan controversy. The story opens with Eve now wandering in the desert (Italy has deserts?). She is obvious racked with guilt and remorse. Xena and Gabrielle have spied her from a sand dune and though Xena is ready to save her child, Gabrielle is still harboring some resentment about Joxer but she will help Eve for Xena's sake. Just then Bedouins (Italy has Bedouins?) attack Eve and X & G run to help her. In a furious battle the couple fight off the attackers but one of them ropes Eve and drags her off. Xena tosses her chakram to cut the rope but Eve catches the chakram allowing herself to be dragged. Xena on Argo gives chase and rescues her daughter. While Eve says to it would have been better that she had died Xena will not let that happen. Gabrielle arrives and gets some water for Eve but something bad is about to happen to Gabby and it involves the gods. On Mount Olympus Athena has hatched a plan - a plan that Aphrodite certainly doesn't like. Athena has set the Furies on Gabrielle. Aphrodite begs her sister to leave her friend alone but Athena contemptuously dismisses Aphrodite. It is evident that in the Olympian scheme of things Aphrodite is not important enough to listen to. The Furies now possess Gabrielle using Gabby's protective instincts for Xena to hopefully turn her into Eve's assassin. As Xena and the now possessed Gabrielle care for Eve, they are approached by a woman. She wants to know if this Xena could possibly be the one their religion's founder called the Defender of The Faith. Gabrielle says if that is Eli then yes this is Xena their defender. The woman invites them to her home. There Gabrielle tells tales of Eli - someone asks if he could breath fire - Gabrielle says he was just a man and that is where his power comes from. He believed that all sinners could be saved by love. Eve says she can't - she has slaughter hundreds, drunk the blood of tortured men, and killed her mother's friend. While Eve's remorse is obviously genuine, the Furies make Gabrielle perceive this as gloating but the Elijian woman tells Eve of their Baptist who can cleanse one of guilt. At the seaside the Baptist (played by John Brazier a frequent villain) is cleansing people of their sins. He welcomes Eve and with baptism he tells she has been born again. As Eve is cleansed a great shaft of light falls upon Xena and a spirit tells her something that she reluctantly accepts. As the trio leaves a host of gods who are impatient with Athena's plan confront Xena, Gabby, and Eve. Poseidon, Hades, Artemis, Discord, Diemos, and Hephaestus (the older one from Hercules) have decided to kill Eve themselves. Xena warns them off but Hades shoots a fireball at her which she deflects into Poseiden which kills him - Xena now has the power to kill gods and Olympus shakes. Discord attacks and is beheaded. Hephaestus throws his hammer but Xena is able to use it against him and he dies. On Olympus Aphrodite clutches her heart as her husband dies. Athena and Ares arrive to stop the mayhem. As Gabrielle gives Xena her chakram, Xena warns the remaining gods not follow (nice bit where she blows on her chakram like a gunfighter blows on his gun) and she and her party leave. Athena is very unhappy. If the god would have only waited and let the Furies do their job no one would have died. Ares still thinks Xena is going to be hard to kill but Athena says Xena isn't the target - it's Eve. Ares then happily volunteers to distract Xena so that the Furies can do their work. Xena now explains to her companions that a spirit sent by Michael told her that now that Eve has been cleansed she will have to power to kill gods as long as Eve is alive. Eve is now the messenger of Eli's love but she wonders how she should begin. Xena tell her she must confront those whom she has hurt so they go to visit Virgil. Virgil although pleased to see Xena and Gabrielle, is enraged when he sees Eve. As he is about to strike her down Xena intervenes. Eve says that she would die to bring Joxer back but Virgil isn't in a forgiving mood. As Xena takes Eve away, Gabrielle says good-bye to Virgil who is off to join his mother and siblings in Athens. Xena, Gabrielle, and Eve are now camped out at Joxer's inn. Eve is happily reading Gabrielle's scrolls about her mother. Gabrielle seems a trifle disconnected but it is Xena who senses something wrong. She tells Gabrielle to watch the back as she goes out into the rain to look around. In the court yard she confronts Ares. As Xena threatens him, Ares scoffs at her threats - she won't kill him because he loves her. Xena won't kill some one she loves would she? In the tavern Gabrielle sees shadows. In the backroom she encounters her worst nightmares. First there is loveable bumbling Joxer who accuses her of letting him die. As Gabrielle says she didn't let him die who should appear but Hope. As the Furies whisper to Gabrielle that Eve is a danger to Xena, Hope goads her mother on. Eve will hurt Xena, she will kill others, Xena is like Gabrielle she won't kill her evil daughter, Gabrielle must kill Eve to save Xena. Gabrielle in a trance approached the reading Eve, she takes her sais from her boots, Hope is snarling at her to "do it to for Xena." Xena in the courtyard suddenly realizes that Ares is a distraction and she rushes into the tavern. She sees the back of Gabrielle with her sais raised and then Gabrielle plunges the daggers into Eve's back and Eve screams. Xena in instinct hurls her chakram and Gabrielle is mortally wounded. Xena with the bloody chakram in her hand suddenly realizes what she has done and that the Furies are to blame. She rushes to the side of the seriously wounded Eve who congratulates Xena on teaching Gabrielle so well. Then to Gabrielle who has suffered a devastating head wound. Now lets stop a moment in our narrative and discuss Xena's chakraming of Gabrielle. This was a really controversial act for the fandom. Xena has basically killed her best friend to save her daughter. It is obvious that the scene was suppose to be a bit different - as it was shot, according to Adrienne Wilkenson, Xena was filmed shouting at Gabrielle to stop but Gabrielle wouldn't, the Furies were to be seen and I'm not sure but I believe the Furies were to be killed and Gabrielle hurt in the process. Another scenario had Xena flinging her chakram blindly at a shadow. As the scene stands I think it is very effective. Xena does not throw her chakram until Gabrielle strikes Eve and then I think it was instinct - a mother protecting her child. When Xena realizes whom she has hurt she is stunned and remorseful but I don't think she was wrong. The episode is entitled Motherhood and what we see is the Xena's commitment to her daughter . Xena is acting as any mother would - she will protect her child at any cost especially when the child is as vulnerable as Eve is now. Back to the story. As Xena cares for the wounded, Athena and the other remaining gods arrive, except for Ares and Aphrodite. Athena is smug its four against one now so Xena has no choice but turn over Eve (Athena has a short memory Xena just polished off three gods out six a while ago). Xena rejects the idea - turning over a table she takes refuge with the wounded and fights back. Aphrodite suddenly pops up (in her mourning lingerie) but she isn't there to fight but to care for the wounded bard - she whisks Gabrielle out of the line of fire. Xena now takes on the pantheon - the fight is furious. Atremis is firing arrows one of which wounds Xena much to Athena's delight, Hades and Deimos fireballs. Xena is fending all off - Xena is finally knocked back with a fireball from Hades and just as Hades is about to burn Eve to death Xena spits fire at him and he bursts into flames as a horrified Athena watches. Xena get Eve to Aphrodite who is caring for Gabrielle and tells her to care for Eve, Aphrodite seems none to pleased with this assignment but Xena doesn't wait, it's back to the fray. Deimos is next he throws a fireball at Xena who ducks and the tavern blows and a large wagon falls on Deimos (this is a bit confusing since I never could figure out why a wagon would be in a tavern but I think it must have been an exhibit - the wagon from Death In The Eye). Athena and Artemis retreat but Ares has arrived. In the backroom he has Eve cornered, raises his sword but Xena arrives and knocks the sword from his hand - once again she doesn't kill Ares and he escapes. The Tavern is now on fire (poor Meg she loses a husband and her business and home). Xena carrying Eve and dragging Gabrielle through the rain soaked courtyard. This is a truly an odd scene and just a bit comic - again this has been explained. Lucy has a bad back and she could not carry both AW and ROC. So ROC had to be dragged - ROC held herself very stiffly so she wouldn't be dead weight and a piece of cardboard was under her so she would slid in the mud (ah the glamorous life of an actress). Aphrodite appears and she is very upset. Her husband is dead, her friend is dying and Xena will probably lose the two people she loves the most in the world. Aphrodite is in tears. Xena wants to know if she is so upset why doesn't she cure Gabrielle but Aphrodite can't - the gods can only cure with Athena's blessing. Xena asks Aphrodite then to transport them to Olympus so she can bargain with Athena. Aphrodite is reluctant - she doesn't want more family killed but says Xena wants to bargain with Athena if she can. Aphrodite is moved by pity and transport them to Olympus. Xena tells Dite that she better leave now and she does. Aphrodite is gone but who should pop up but Ares. He has an offer - Xena gets godhood (there are quit a few openings now), Gabrielle is a negotiable point, but Eve has to die. Xena points a crossbow at Ares and says no but Ares points out she had at least two chances to kill him and she can't do it. Xena answers that observation by shooting Ares in the leg and chaining him with Heph's chain. Ares is incensed "no one shoots the God of War" but it is of no use. He, Eve, and Gabrielle get dragged before Athena. Xena makes her offer to Athena - cure Eve and Gabrielle and Xena will leave Olympus in peace. No other gods have to die but Athena seeing Artemis sneaking up says no. Artemis fires her arrows, Xena catches them and kills Atremis with them. Athena now charges Xena and they fight viciously. Eve and Gabrielle are fading fast and indeed Eve soon dies of her wounds and when Xena finally stabs Athena nothing happens. Xena realizes her daughter is dead but she doesn't give up she is still fighting Athena. Suddenly Ares moves - not toward the combatants but towards Gabrielle and Eve. He begins to heal them. Athena is winning her fight with Xena but at the last moment Xena is able to plunge her sword into Athena - this time Athena bleeds. In horror she looks over to her brother who by healing Eve has sealed her fate. How and why she asks? Ares says he has given up his godhood to heal the two women and why - he has thing for Xena. Xena is reunited with her daughter and friend. She turns to Ares there are hardly any words she can say to Ares except thank you and with a simple nod of his head Ares acknowledges her. Ares and Aphrodite have survived the twilight. The Goddess of Love survives because of her compassion and friendship for a little bard. Ares survives because he loves a woman whom he can't have but was willing to sacrifice for her. In the end love and war were wiser than wisdom. Athena the Goddess of Wisdom never knew when to quite. At any point the gods could have survived by simply leaving well enough alone. In every confrontation with Xena, Xena told the gods to leave but they insisted on the war that destroyed them. Back at the beach Eve is now just a little girl. She told her mother on Olympus that she never called any one mother before Xena. That she was a pretty child who liked spiders and now on the beach sitting with Gabrielle, Eve is playing with a large spider. Xena comes along and admires Eve's spider as Gabrielle looks on with fondness for mother and daughter and disgust for the spider. As Eve goes to the sea Gabrielle says Xena got her daughter back but Xena corrects her "We got our daughter back." This was very good episode. Outstanding action sequences were one of the highlights of the episode. There was also wonderful acting by Alex Tydings as Aphrodite - AT has made Dite one of the most appealing characters in the show. Here there is wonderful mixture of the absurd (Dite's skimpy mourning clothes) and touching (Dite holding the blood-splattered Gabby in her lap - you know for anyone else this would just be too gross). Lucy was as always wonderful as she battles all comers. ROC was very good also - her performance was very subtle as Gabrielle - there was a kind of distant pre-occupied quality to her Gabrielle that demonstrated that Gabby wasn't quit with it but not enough to signal a very busy Xena that something was wrong. Then as Hope she was deliciously vicious and even was able to overcome the rotten wig (perhaps the Furies just couldn't conjure up Hope's hair very well). She also gets the trooper award - she not only got dragged through mud abut was over come by fumes while being dragged around a foggy Olympus. KS was again wonderful as the duplicitous Ares who keep changing sides. Next week Ares copes with mortality. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #349 **************************************