From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #344 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, December 18 2002 Volume 02 : Number 344 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 01:28:59 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 12/16/2002 7:00:23 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > It is with these words "abandoned her" that we have the clue to what went > with > wrong with Eve. I said once rather snidely that Eve had abandonment issues > but I was right. In the Xenaverse we have a recurring theme of lost > families. > When Xena lost Lyceus and was rejected by Cyrene she turned to her dark side. > > Callisto's whole life is spent trying to avenge her family. Gabrielle > twice > goes into a dark place once when she abandons Hope which leads to her > betrayal > of Xena and then when her mother and father are murdered and she becomes > obsessed with vengeance. Lost families and the devastating effect it has is > seen in the actions of Borias's son in Last Of The Centaurs and even in > Akemi > in FIN. In the Xenaverse the lost of family has dire consequences for the > survivors - without family people loose their moral underpinnings and become > prey to their darker impulses. > Excellent point. And don't forget all the times X&G called each other family, with equally dire consequences when one felt abandoned by the other. Perhaps that family aspect is what helped humanize XWP even during all the battles with dieties and empires. However we interpret the "heart" (love, relationship) of X&G, few would proably dispute they exhibited the best (and sometimes worst) characteristics of "family." As to whether you should slow down with the reviews, since you're getting near the end, go with your gut. There may be days ahead when you can sense that one is needed. Besides, you (or somebody) could always start at the beginning again and still find something new. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:15:51 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? On Tuesday 17 December 2002 07:47, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/02 7:25:05 PM Central Standard Time, > aemoses@comcast.net writes: > > << >David?!! How the heck did he get on the Scroll-author list? Did I > miss some > > >biblical ep other than Altered States and Solstice Carol? > > > >-- Ife > > , dahlink. >> > > Oh, my. Had completely forgotten about that. Heck, if we're going to > consider David, why not that old guy in the Ring trilogy, who had that > tapestry with Xena as a Valkyrie? He seemed to know quite a bit about her > activities during that period. Given the oral histories prevalent then, > quite a few folks could've contributed their recollections to the scrolls > or written some themselves. Even Callisto might've kept a diary during her > prison time. > > -- Ife Callisto? I rather doubt it. She doesn't look like the literary type to me. Much though I'd like her to be the source of some of the stories. Of course, maybe after she became an angel, she would have had plenty of time to recall events. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:48:10 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 17 December 2002 14:00, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > > This episode is much better than Livia simply because we begin to see Eve's > character being developed more. It also is a better showcase for Ares and > Xena. > > Last episode ended with Xena declaring that Eve was about to do terrible > things and she was right. Livia and a company of loyal troops are off > slaughtering suspected Elijians. Livia is in full Callisto mode - she looks > like and is even behaving like her. When one of the villagers says they > have survived worse - they survived Callisto - Eve states her admiration > for her before lopping off his head. Indeed the reference to Callisto is > telling because this episode certainly plays very much like a homage to the > famous Callisto episodes. Unfortunately, IMO, Eve / Livia just couldn't come anywhere near equalling Callisto. Hudson's Callisto was unique. Very evidently, TPTB were trying to repeat Callisto's success as a villain, but it was alsways going to be an impossible task. IMO, Alti was the only later villain who came near to Callisto in terms of villainy, and she was entirely different in character. The more they tried to make Livia/Eve resemble Callisto, the more she suffered from the comparison. And maybe from unfulfilled expectations... the combination of Xena and Callisto should in theory be awe-inspiring, and Livia (IMO) just wasn't. It was asking too much. > Ares now arrives to make matters worse. He demands that Xena give him a > child. Xena is disgusted with his advances and what he has done to her > child. Ares is furious, he threatens to expose Eve to the other gods but > Xena adamant "she'd rather go to Hell" than be with Ares. Ares now goes to > Livia and tells her that she still can be Empress now all she has to do > keep their bargain to kill Eli's followers and kill Xena also. I thought that was out of character for Ares. He isn't normally that ruthless where Xena is concerned. I just couldn't see it. > > Xena, now at her daughter's mercy, knows she can no longer save her > daughter and calls upon Eli to save Eve. As Eve raises the chakram a > great light pours in on Livia and Eve remembers. In an instant Eve sees > the love her mother had for her as a baby. In a very effective montage > backed by Xena's lullaby, Eve sees her birth, her tender moment with her > mother and grandmother and Xena's desperate efforts to save her. In that > moment Eve regains her family and her ability to love. In the Xenaverse > when family is found darkness is dispelled - Xena is saved when she > creates a new family with Gabrielle, Gabrielle is saved when she finds > Sara, Borias's son is saved when he sees his grandchild, Angel Callisto is > reunited with her family when she is saved. At the moment Livia finds her > family - Eve is reborn and she reborn with a conscious. If she has Xena's > darkness she also has her mother's capacity for remorse. Very effective, but I didn't like it. I just don't care for the 'heavenly intervention' deal. I'm comfortable with the Greek gods, but not Eli and Michael's mafia. I was a little happier with it in S6 when it became obvious that Michael was only using Eve and Xena. (How cynical does that make me? ;) The fight was good, though, and spectacular. I did like Ares enthusiastic cheering them on. > ROC did a nice job but Gabrielle again is used just a little too > much as a plot ploy. Gabrielle sneaking into Livia's camp just doesn't > make sense - Gabrielle is no longer that naive Errrm, can we say 'screw-up'? I agree, it does seem very naive, considering Gabby's part in A&C and LDITE.... > and it seems to be done > just so we could kill off Joxer and demonstrate how bad Livia really is (we > can slaughter whole villages but you aren't really bad until you kill off a > beloved character). Ahh, characters come, characters go, characters get killed.... occupational hazard. As Brutus said, of Ephiny, 'for that, I have no guilt in my actions'. I thought it was entirely in character for Joxer, though.... it was always on the cards that he'd get killed because of his incompetence. I know some Joxerfans got very upset that he didn't to go out in some blaze of glory but - - why? He was at least attempting to be heroic, even if he bungled it. > There some odd moments here. When the old man says they survived > Callisto's raids that was surprise. Callisto was rampaging through Greece > not Italy as far as I know - it doesn't seem likely he would have had much > contact with Callisto (another plot ploy to point up Livia similarity to > Callisto). Even leaving aside geography (which I usually don't do! :) it just seems to be too much of a coincidence that Livia should end up raiding the same villages Callisto did. That struck me as just an attempt to get some mileage out of the Callisto eps. > Then we have the sudden revelation that Virgil is a follower of > Eli. Virgil's been kick butt all over the place and now suddenly he > announces he belongs to a pacifist religion. I expect it was trendy ;) OK, so I'm not a Virgil fan.... Overall, it was reasonably good as an ep. Certainly watchable, with plenty of action. But I can't get really excited about it. Part of this was probably down to Livia/Eve. Callisto had a delicious sense of irony and black humour and some killer one-liners. Livia just didn't. > I don't think we will get to Motherhhood this week. I'll save that I think > for next weekend. I'll soon be staring season 6 and I think I'll slow down > a bit just to make Xena last a little longer. What do you all think? > > CherylA Excellent plan. I think I'll watch Motherhood again myself, before I comment on your commentary.... one of my absolute favourite eps, any excuse will do :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:27:18 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list On Tuesday 17 December 2002 09:38, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > > 1. In Sickness and in Hell. > > Completely unwatchable. If you don't like South Parks humour, this is > > just > > > gross. > > Errrm, South Park, or Monty Python? > > Not Monty Python. That was not the toilet humour that ISIAH was. Ministry > of silly walks and dead parrots can come across as unfunny, but not gross > like this. Lice, vomit, smells, fungus... need I say more? Umm, I almost hate to mention Mr Creosote :( But I do agree with you about the more vulgar bits of ISAIH. > > > 2. Key to the Kingdom. > > Boring, unfully. > > Helps if I can type properly! UnfuNNy. > > > 5. Prometheus. > > It is the fight with the green egg men that makes this one naff. A real > > loss of credibility there. > > I find that very odd. That you should find the Green Egg Men so unlikely. > I find centaurs, and dryads, to be just as improbable. > Still, as you say, these things are individual. > > At least their CGI looked good. Centaurs didn't have the cheesy cardboard > quality of that fight. Polystyrene rocks and little green men - it didn't > look good. It looked so naff you couldn't begin to suspend belief. Ahhh, OK. I could. But then, I'm a fan of Blakes 7, if you could overlook the cardboard sets on that you could overlook *anything*.... ;) > > Some of the unpopular episodes do have their attractions. > > And Lifeblood, for instance..... > > The attractions here can be summed up in one word - Amazons. > Having said that, even Amazons couldn't save the HTLJ ep Love Amazon Style > (is that the correct title?) from HTLJ's final season. Well, yes, I thought the glimpses of Amazon High were fascinating. Didn't really care for the 'Xena' parts, even LL couldn't make them very interesting.... > > >>Married With Fishsticks > > Do I need to say why? ;) > > This does have some funny moments - I like the octapus fight. That really > gave me a good ROTFLMAO. Hmmm, what was that you said about suspending belief? ;) (I think the term should be 'suspending disbelief', actually). > >>Giant Killer > > Even this had a touching moment on the balcony, that I have seen used in > many music vids. > > Ann I wouldn't know, I've only ever seen it once..... ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:30:36 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? On Tuesday 17 December 2002 10:53, mirrordrum wrote: > Given the oral histories prevalent then, > > quite a few folks could've contributed their recollections to the scrolls > or > > written some themselves. Even Callisto might've kept a diary during her > > prison time. > > oh, i'd have paid to read that! wonder if they let her have quill and > scroll. > > md Not if they had any sense. She would have stabbed one of the guards with the quill, thrown the ink into the eyes of the second, twisted the scroll into a rope and garrotted the third, and made her escape *again* ..... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #344 **************************************