From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #343 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 17 2002 Volume 02 : Number 343 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Lucy's costumes on eBay ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? [IfeRae@aol.com] RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list ["Ann Reddecliffe" > ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 02:57:15 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's costumes on eBay Thanks to Audra (~*Xena2010*~) on the NewXenaland list for-- "On December 17th there will be a real time auction over atEbay.com for Xena's leathers as worn by Lucy Lawless on the show. The begiinning auction price will be $2250.00 and is expected to go between $3,000 to $4,000(U.S.) Check out the auct ion page! And the dress that Lucy wore as Xena when she was going to marry Ares is also up for auction over at Ebay too!" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:45:18 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's costumes on eBay On Monday 16 December 2002 21:57, H.J.J. Hewitt wrote: > "On December 17th there will be a real time auction over atEbay.com for > Xena's leathers as worn by Lucy Lawless on the show. (snip) And - umm, blatant advert - I have Naiyima's costume up for auction too. Closes in 2 days. Look under 'Naiyima' or 1981725497. Naiyima was the 'cool Indian woman' who defeated Alti in Between the Lines. Please forgive the commercial (hope it doesn't break too many list rules) ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:47:34 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? In a message dated 12/15/02 7:25:05 PM Central Standard Time, aemoses@comcast.net writes: << >David?!! How the heck did he get on the Scroll-author list? Did I miss some >biblical ep other than Altered States and Solstice Carol? > >-- Ife , dahlink. >> Oh, my. Had completely forgotten about that. Heck, if we're going to consider David, why not that old guy in the Ring trilogy, who had that tapestry with Xena as a Valkyrie? He seemed to know quite a bit about her activities during that period. Given the oral histories prevalent then, quite a few folks could've contributed their recollections to the scrolls or written some themselves. Even Callisto might've kept a diary during her prison time. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:38:55 -0000 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list > 1. In Sickness and in Hell. > Completely unwatchable. If you don't like South Parks humour, this is just > gross. Errrm, South Park, or Monty Python? Not Monty Python. That was not the toilet humour that ISIAH was. Ministry of silly walks and dead parrots can come across as unfunny, but not gross like this. Lice, vomit, smells, fungus... need I say more? > 2. Key to the Kingdom. > Boring, unfully. Helps if I can type properly! UnfuNNy. > 5. Prometheus. > It is the fight with the green egg men that makes this one naff. A real > loss of credibility there. I find that very odd. That you should find the Green Egg Men so unlikely. I find centaurs, and dryads, to be just as improbable. Still, as you say, these things are individual. At least their CGI looked good. Centaurs didn't have the cheesy cardboard quality of that fight. Polystyrene rocks and little green men - it didn't look good. It looked so naff you couldn't begin to suspend belief. > Some of the unpopular episodes do have their attractions. And Lifeblood, for instance..... The attractions here can be summed up in one word - Amazons. Having said that, even Amazons couldn't save the HTLJ ep Love Amazon Style (is that the correct title?) from HTLJ's final season. >>Married With Fishsticks Do I need to say why? ;) This does have some funny moments - I like the octapus fight. That really gave me a good ROTFLMAO. >>Giant Killer Even this had a touching moment on the balcony, that I have seen used in many music vids. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:53:16 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? > In a message dated 12/15/02 7:25:05 PM Central Standard Time, > aemoses@comcast.net writes: > > << >David?!! How the heck did he get on the Scroll-author list? Did I miss > some > >biblical ep other than Altered States and Solstice Carol? > > > >-- Ife > > , dahlink. >> > > Oh, my. Had completely forgotten about that. well, it's rather a forgettable ep--barring the handclasp. Heck, if we're going to > consider David, why not that old guy in the Ring trilogy, who had that > tapestry with Xena as a Valkyrie? He seemed to know quite a bit about her > activities during that period. yeah but he was a tapist, not a scroller. one imagines there were all kinds of media depicting xena. i shouldn't wonder if. . .oh blast, who's the guy who did the marvelous classic statues of everybody *chit*. . .oh well, i shouldn't wonder if he did a statue of her. but that doesn't mean he did scrolls. it could have been someone in her army, of course, in the manner of, say, xenophon. and wasn't tacitus a soldier? but i incline to gabrielle since, well, it's canon isn't it? Given the oral histories prevalent then, > quite a few folks could've contributed their recollections to the scrolls or > written some themselves. Even Callisto might've kept a diary during her > prison time. oh, i'd have paid to read that! wonder if they let her have quill and scroll. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:00:06 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # This episode is much better than Livia simply because we begin to see Eve's character being developed more. It also is a better showcase for Ares and Xena. Last episode ended with Xena declaring that Eve was about to do terrible things and she was right. Livia and a company of loyal troops are off slaughtering suspected Elijians. Livia is in full Callisto mode - she looks like and is even behaving like her. When one of the villagers says they have survived worse - they survived Callisto - Eve states her admiration for her before lopping off his head. Indeed the reference to Callisto is telling because this episode certainly plays very much like a homage to the famous Callisto episodes. Meanwhile Xena and company are off trying to stop Eve. Xena is clearly worried that Eve is taking after her in the worse possible way . Although Gabrielle tries to talk her out of her dark mood, the arrival at the village only confirms Xena's worse fears. The village has been slaughtered - Livia has left behind signs taunting her mother with fact that Rome is her mother and not Xena. Like Callisto she leaves one old lady alive to tell the tale and blame Xena for Livia's actions. Ares now arrives to make matters worse. He demands that Xena give him a child. Xena is disgusted with his advances and what he has done to her child. Ares is furious, he threatens to expose Eve to the other gods but Xena adamant "she'd rather go to Hell" than be with Ares. Ares now goes to Livia and tells her that she still can be Empress now all she has to do keep their bargain to kill Eli's followers and kill Xena also. A new village is now under attack by Livia but this time Xena and her gang have arrived to save the village. As Gabrielle and Vigil fight off Livia's army Joxer is threatened by Livia. Xena saves Joxer and takes on Livia. Although Xena defends her self against Livia it is obvious that she is unwilling to seriously fight Livia much to her daughter's frustration. As Xena tries to talk reason to Livia a townsman gets the drop on Livia is about to knife her when Xena knocks the knife from his hand. As Xena tries to sooth Livia much as one would sooth a frightened child, Livia uses the opportunity to escape but not before ordering the burning of the town. Needless to say the would be assassin is not happy. He says from now on Livia's victims' blood will be on Xena's hands. Xena agrees. Once again Xena takes the guilt of another on her shoulders. She tells Gabrielle that she "has made Eve" and it is her responsibility to stop her. Gabrielle is still trying to convince Xena that Eve can be saved but Xena can't accept that. Xena now takes Eve's guilt upon herself much as she did with Callisto. The fact that Xena actual had no influence over the adult Livia is of no importance to Xena - it she, Xena that must make things right. Livia however is shaken by her encounter with her mother. When Ares appears she tells him that Xena saved her life. That she came for her even after 25 years. Why should she do this? Ares says she's just a sentimental fool. But Eve persist - why would she do this? Ares in frustrations shouts at who would she rather follow - a god who will give her an empire or the mother "who abandoned her" It is with these words "abandoned her" that we have the clue to what went with wrong with Eve. I said once rather snidely that Eve had abandonment issues but I was right. In the Xenaverse we have a recurring theme of lost families. When Xena lost Lyceus and was rejected by Cyrene she turned to her dark side. Callisto's whole life is spent trying to avenge her family. Gabrielle twice goes into a dark place once when she abandons Hope which leads to her betrayal of Xena and then when her mother and father are murdered and she becomes obsessed with vengeance. Lost families and the devastating effect it has is seen in the actions of Borias's son in Last Of The Centaurs and even in Akemi in FIN. In the Xenaverse the lost of family has dire consequences for the survivors - without family people loose their moral underpinnings and become prey to their darker impulses. Livia has never had a family. She is raised with privilege but no one was her family - obvious Octavius was never a father to her. She never had the unconditional love of family and this is what gave Ares his power over her. Ares uses the anger that an unloved child has to his own ends - he becomes a kind of corrupt parent to her giving her an identity that reflects his own dark motives. Now Livia begins to suspect that there is someone who loves her unconditionally and he tries to kill that hope. Ares knows that if Livia rediscovers her family his hold over her will be destroyed because he know the power of family. That is why he has tried to destroy Xena's (The Furies) and to create his own through Xena. Meanwhile Xena has told Gabrielle that Eve, her daughter, is dead and she must kill Livia. Gabrielle knows this will destroy Xena. That night a plan is made to confront Livia at the temple of Eli in Ostia. While Xena is off making arrangements Gabrielle calls Virgil aside and tells him she going to confront Eve. Virgil tries to keep the secret but when Joxer awakens he is shocked at what Gabrielle has done and goes after her. At Livia's camp an unarmed Gabrielle is taken before Livia. Livia sarcastically refers to Gabby as Aunty Gabrielle and will not listen to her when she tells Livia that Xena and she love her. Instead Livia plans to make an example of her. That morning Livia takes Gabrielle out and as Gabby once again tries to reason with her Livia slaps her and tells her that Xena will no longer want a mother and daughter relationship when she finds Gabrielle's dead body. She ties Gabby to two posts. In the bushes Joxer is watching everything. Joxer has already confessed to his understanding son that he was never a hero but now to save Gabrielle he will be that hero. Joxer cleverly attracts a guard's attention, knocks him out and takes his uniform. Just as Livia is about to kill Gabrielle, he interrupts the proceedings. As Livia watches in disbelief Joxer bumbles his way through a stalling tactic that actually works. Xena and Virgil arrive and a fight ensues. Livia now turns to kill Gabrielle but just as Xena is about to stop her with her chakram, Joxer rushes Livia. Livia turns and thrusts her sword into Joxer just as Callisto did to Perdicus so many years before. Livia escapes. Joxer now lies mortally wounded. His stunned friends and son gather around. Gabrielle in grief asks why he did it and he says he didn't want to disappoint her. Joxer holding his son's dies - a hero at last. Virgil is overcome with grief - another lost family and another survivor bent on revenge. Ares confronts Xena and again says all this is her fault. Gabrielle now goes to Xena - for the first time she calls Eve Livia - she tells Xena that she told Eve how much she was loved and it meant less than nothing to her - Eve is dead, only Livia remains. Xena is now left with no one to champion Livia. While she has been saying for some time that she had to stop Livia, I think she counted on Gabrielle to try and convince her that Livia could change. Now with Joxer's death even Gabrielle has lost faith in Livia's redemption. In a scene straight from TROC Xena prays to Eli to save her daughter's soul. She needs answers and a miracle. Eli said to love her enemies well she certainly does love her enemy but what good is it. She will still have to kill her daughter. She can't fight her with compassion. What is she to do. Where is the miracle she needs? There is no answer. At the temple Livia storms in ready to slaughter Eli's "sheep". Xena rises from the worshippers and confronts her daughter. Livia is not surprised to see Xena and seem happy to finally fight her mother. Xena throws her charkram at her daughter. Surprisingly Livia splits the chakram with her sword and catches the two halves. The fight is on. The "Eligians" are revealed to be Octavius's soldiers there to stop Livia and with Gabrielle and a vengeful Virgil they take on Livia's troops. The real fight however is between Xena and Livia. With Ares shouting gleeful encouragement to "his girl", Livia reveals that she is as good as Xena. The fight is one of the best of the series. As the soldiers fight below, Xena and Livia fight above the general mayhem, flying through the air on the temple curtains. Finally Xena is able to knock Livia to the ground. Xena now crouches over her daughter; she has one half of the chakram at her daughter's throat. Livia now says to her mother the same thing Xena said to Hercules in The Gauntlet so many years before "Finish it", but like Hercules she cannot. Livia uses Xena's hesitation and she throws Xena off and now has her chakram half at Xena's throat. Xena, now at her daughter's mercy, knows she can no longer save her daughter and calls upon Eli to save Eve. As Eve raises the chakram a great light pours in on Livia and Eve remembers. In an instant Eve sees the love her mother had for her as a baby. In a very effective montage backed by Xena's lullaby, Eve sees her birth, her tender moment with her mother and grandmother and Xena's desperate efforts to save her. In that moment Eve regains her family and her ability to love. In the Xenaverse when family is found darkness is dispelled - Xena is saved when she creates a new family with Gabrielle, Gabrielle is saved when she finds Sara, Borias's son is saved when he sees his grandchild, Angel Callisto is reunited with her family when she is saved. At the moment Livia finds her family - Eve is reborn and she reborn with a conscious. If she has Xena's darkness she also has her mother's capacity for remorse. In shock Eve rises from Xena she speaks briefly with her mother but Virgil literally with blood in his eye tries to kill Eve. As Xena stops him Eve leaves the temple. Xena follows her but she is gone. Gabrielle comforts an enraged Virgil and goes to Xena for an explanation. Xena looking off into the distance says that the Elijians got their miracle. Gabrielle asks what Livia said to her. Xena answers : "She said her name is Eve." This is a good episode. LL is very effective as a very torn Xena, a woman who loves a daughter who appears to be lost in evil. Adrienne Wilkenson is good here although her Livia seems to be more Callisto's daughter than Xena's. I still think that there should have been more Xena and less Callisto in AW's character. KS is again terrific as Ares who is now just the personification of wounded pride and fury. Ted Raimi's old Joxer is still a treat and his death scene was wonderfully underplayed and very moving. ROC did a nice job but Gabrielle again is used just a little too much as a plot ploy. Gabrielle sneaking into Livia's camp just doesn't make sense - Gabrielle is no longer that naive and it seems to be done just so we could kill off Joxer and demonstrate how bad Livia really is (we can slaughter whole villages but you aren't really bad until you kill off a beloved character). There some odd moments here. When the old man says they survived Callisto's raids that was surprise. Callisto was rampaging through Greece not Italy as far as I know - it doesn't seem likely he would have had much contact with Callisto (another plot ploy to point up Livia similarity to Callisto). Then we have the sudden revelation that Virgil is a follower of Eli. Virgil's been kick butt all over the place and now suddenly he announces he belongs to a pacifist religion. I did however like the part where Joxer says to Virgil to kick butt like he taught him and Virgil indeed does kick butt. Obviously Joxer is like mediocre ballplayer who becomes a great couch - Joxer can't fight but he sure can teach. I don't think we will get to Motherhhood this week. I'll save that I think for next weekend. I'll soon be staring season 6 and I think I'll slow down a bit just to make Xena last a little longer. What do you all think? CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #343 **************************************