From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #342 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, December 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 342 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? [HawkFalco@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list ["Ann Reddecliffe" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pasadena Con [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Pasadena Con [MelosaQu@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Re: Bottom 5 list [MelosaQu@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Xena fan club kit #6 UPDATE ["Creation (Sharon Delaney] [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Xena fan club kit #6 UPDATE [mirrordrum] [chakram-refugees] Re: OT: States/Countries [was: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style] ["Jackie M. Young" I think it's pretty obvious Gabrielle wrote the scrolls. (snip) >CherylA I must agree with Cheryl that Gabrielle wrote almost all of the scrolls. I do think that Joxer authored the two we now know as "Purity" and "Back In The Bottle". I think he wrote them as bed time stories for Baby Eve. How else can one explain Joxer's prominence in the stories; the unlikely events (Xena's score of10,000 dead in a single battle); fantastic time line (there and back again and Xena still hasn't delivered); glaring inconsistencies (Joxer didn't really know where Xena met Lao Ma); and down right lies (Gabrielle can't cook but Joxer is an educated chef). Yep, I think those were fables for Eve. Hawk with tongue firmly in cheek ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:07:43 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Saturday 14 December 2002 02:11, Liz wrote: > >... Xena can rape me, _anytime_ :) > > I think you are confusing forceful consensual sex with forceable > nonconsenual sex. Also known as indecent assault. > > I'm sure you would know the difference in situ, as it were. > > Sojourner Yeah, I know that. I was using the term colloquially and inaccurately, hence the smiley. In fact, considering it explicitly gives Xena permission to have her wicked way with me any time she pleases, I suppose it's an oxymoron. Unfortunately, she's never taken me up on the invitation. What's Herc got that I haven't got? :( cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:13:32 -0000 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list I have got to dive into this one. There do seem to be some episodes that fall towards the bottom of most people's lista, but some bottom 5 lists are very individual. Mine would be: 1. In Sickness and in Hell. Completely unwatchable. If you don't like South Parks humour, this is just gross. It is a love it or hate it episode. 2. Key to the Kingdom. Boring, unfully. 3. Solstice Carol. For 2 years this had undisputed place at the bottom of my list of least favourite episodes. Nothing against it, but I don't like the bland sweetiness of it. 4. God Fearing Child. I know it is a big story arc show, but it isn't a Xena show. When you watch the story arc I know you can't miss it out (ISAIH and KTTK would be no loss there), but I don't have to like it. 5. Prometheus. It is the fight with the green egg men that makes this one naff. A real loss of credibility there. I can rationalise YAXIs, but the credibility gap here is huge. As for Gabrielle and Iolaus - I don't even want to go there. Some of the unpopular episodes do have their attractions. Ulysses does have some redeeming qualities - Gabrielle trying to distract the sailors, being the highlight here. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:16:06 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? On Sunday 15 December 2002 22:15, HawkFalco@aol.com wrote: > >I think it's pretty obvious Gabrielle wrote the scrolls. > > (snip) > > >CherylA > > I must agree with Cheryl that Gabrielle wrote almost all of the scrolls. > I do think that Joxer authored the two we now know as "Purity" and "Back In > The Bottle". I suppose we're in for a rash of "Gabrielle wrote the scrolls _except_ [insert own personally disliked episode here]". ;) IMO, Gabrielle probably wrote just about all of the scrolls (except possibly the 'Blue' scroll since it specifically says 'author unknown' - maybe Gabs did, maybe she didn't). However, the series we see on TV is *not* solely dependent on Gabrielle's scrolls. There are just too many details we see, that are obviously not known to Gabrielle either at the time, or later. Obviously not known to Gabby at the time, are all Xena's doings when Gabby isn't present. Arguably, many of those could have been related to her later (offscreen) by Xena, though it argues a fantastically accurate and comprehensive memory on Xena's part. (I don't find that satisfying because I want to believe that everything I see on screen is accurate and really happened that way, not just a product of Gabby 'filling in the gaps'. That brings in the probability that much of the story is an invention of Gabby's, which I cannot accept, not from Gabby, not from any observer who has a personal interest in the events). But then, there are events that Xena couldn't know about either. For example, in Return of Callisto, Callisto bumping off Theodorus. In Sacrifice, the little conflict between Callisto, Hope and Ares in the temple. Or Ares and Athena's exchanges in Amphipolis Under Siege. Or the gods' confrontation in Olympus, in Motherhood. Or the Furies impersonating X, G and Eve in Coming Home. Nobody would have told Gabrielle about any of those. And of course there are hundreds more. So, for that reason, I personally don't think it matters who wrote what. The 'scrolls' theme is simply an interesting embellishment that TPTB played with from time to time. But the series actually incorporates the usual convention of fiction, that we are seeing the actual events as they happened, as though there were a hidden videocamera present. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 01:43:07 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list Please forgive me if I comment :) On Sunday 15 December 2002 23:13, Ann Reddecliffe wrote: > I have got to dive into this one. There do seem to be some episodes that > fall towards the bottom of most people's lista, but some bottom 5 lists are > very individual. Mine would be: > > 1. In Sickness and in Hell. > Completely unwatchable. If you don't like South Parks humour, this is just > gross. It is a love it or hate it episode. Errrm, South Park, or Monty Python? (Can't say I cared for it, but it doesn't make my bottom 5. I can see why people might love or hate it, though.) > 2. Key to the Kingdom. > Boring, unfully. > > 3. Solstice Carol. > For 2 years this had undisputed place at the bottom of my list of least > favourite episodes. Nothing against it, but I don't like the bland > sweetiness of it. Hey, it's on my list too! It really is rather too Charles Dickens for my taste. > 4. God Fearing Child. > I know it is a big story arc show, but it isn't a Xena show. When you > watch the story arc I know you can't miss it out (ISAIH and KTTK would be > no loss there), but I don't have to like it. Oh, and I *loved* it! Just regarded as a Xena ep with some interesting guest stars, it's still a great ep, and would be even if the Hercules series had never existed. That is, of course, IMO, I'm not saying you're 'wrong' ;) > 5. Prometheus. > It is the fight with the green egg men that makes this one naff. A real > loss of credibility there. I can rationalise YAXIs, but the credibility > gap here is huge. As for Gabrielle and Iolaus - I don't even want to go > there. I find that very odd. That you should find the Green Egg Men so unlikely. I find centaurs, and dryads, to be just as improbable. Still, as you say, these things are individual. > Some of the unpopular episodes do have their attractions. Ulysses does > have some redeeming qualities - Gabrielle trying to distract the sailors, > being the highlight here. And Lifeblood, for instance..... I suppose I should put up my bottom 5 now, since I've commented on other folks's.... OK, in no particular order: Married With Fishsticks Do I need to say why? ;) One Against an Army (As anyone who's heard me rant would know by now.... let's just say that subtext leaves me cold and the gratuitous massacre of geography *and* history pains me) Solstice Carol (Thanks for reminding me of that one) The Prodigal For very personal reasons - I'd seen Royal Couple of Thieves the previous week, which is a hilarious ep IMO, and I persuaded a guest to watch Xena, and - - well, no comedy, no Xena. :( Giant Killer I did *not* like Xena getting tied up with a bit of Biblical myth, and furthermore, she not only betrays an old friend, but doesn't even get to do the dirty deed herself. Xena can do much better than be the lackey to someone else's folk hero. That'll do. Probably next week I'll have remembered a different 5 ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:19:40 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers In a message dated 12/12/02 11:21:07 PM Central Standard Time, KTL writes: << I perhaps didn't phrase this well enough. My main point is that the story in the Xena Scrolls is absolutely not Gabrielle written. Joxer's descendent is the one who tells this story about the scrolls that were found in his grandfather's attic. And what great shape they're in for their age! (Especially after whizzing around on a motorcycle and being stored in a an attic for 50 years or so...) >> I see what you're saying now. Gabrielle wasn't in that cave in the 1940's so how could she have written that one? That is a very intriguing question about the author's point of view. One could reasonably argue that this story was passed down by Jack Kleinman, perhaps orally and at some point transcribed by one of his descendants. But I'm still not convinced that the story "The Xena Scrolls" was not written by Gabrielle. I believe one could also reasonably argue that Xena's spirit (for lack of a better term) was time traveling when she made her appearance in that cave in 1940. If so, she could have returned to her own time and told the story to Gabrielle who wrote it down. Here's an idea--Xena made that trip to 1940 while she was dead (post-FIN)... Xena eventually gets resurrected (for a movie)... she tells the story to Gabrielle... and Voila (or is that Wallah?). Now I didn't say this was a good idea; I just said it was an idea. <> Nice to hear from you too, KT. Seems you always manage to pull me out of lurkdom to defend the Bard of Poteidaia. XWPacolye (Defender of the Bard) Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:25:18 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pasadena Con In a message dated 12/14/02 11:21:09 PM Central Standard Time, "Cheryl Ande" writes: << Is anyone going to Pasadena in February? I have plans to meet Xenaacolyte there and we would be pleased to meet up with any other Chakram refugees. So drop me a line if you are going. We both behave really well in public - honest . So don't be afraid to speak up. >> Just as CherylA has been my character witness, I can vouch for her too. We met up at DragonCon and didn't get arrested or anything. But seriously, I'd really like to meet some more of you guys if anyone's going to Pasadena. XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:57:20 EST From: MelosaQu@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Pasadena Con By the gods!.....I most certainly will be there! And on the day Alison Bruce is on stage, I will be wearing my Queen Melosa tee shirt!! I cannot tell you all how thrilled, Thrilled, THRILLED I was when I found out that she was going to be there!!! In fact...it looks to be that quite a few other "Amazons" are attending! Yeeehaaaa! In a message dated 12/15/2002 1:26:20 PM EST, Xwpacolyte@aol.com writes: In a message dated 12/14/02 11:21:09 PM Central Standard Time, "Cheryl Ande" writes: << Is anyone going to Pasadena in February? I have plans to meet Xenaacolyte there and we would be pleased to meet up with any other Chakram refugees. So drop me a line if you are going. We both behave really well in public - honest . So don't be afraid to speak up. >> Just as CherylA has been my character witness, I can vouch for her too. We met up at DragonCon and didn't get arrested or anything. But seriously, I'd really like to meet some more of you guys if anyone's going to Pasadena. XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:33:06 EST From: MelosaQu@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Bottom 5 list I think it is easier for me to list my least favorite episodes than it is to list my top favorites! My two dinars worth, in this order....1 being the worst (IMO). 1 - Married With Fishsticks (gack!!!) 2 - For Him The Bell Tolls 3 - King Of Assassins 4 - Key To The Kingdom 5 - and.....sorry folks, just because it IS the last episode......Friend In Need Just my thoughts...... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:41:31 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena fan club kit #6 UPDATE We're working on getting them out around Christmas time, but the content of the videos was so extensive that the tapes are still in the approval process with the studio. Check the fan club web page for the latest kit updates at http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:46:14 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: [Flawless] Xena fan club kit #6 UPDATE yeah, right sharon. we all know you've been just sitting there twiddling your thumbs and eating pop tarts instead of obeying our every whim. extensive tapes. hunh! but seriously, thanks for the update. personally, i find that antici. . .PAYshun is a great part of the enjoyment. and you do always come through with something worth waiting for. may you and everyone have a peaceful chanumaskwanzaastice (ooh, sister. you should see where my spellchecker went with this--my favorites being "Hammarskjold" and "chakattack" ), md At 02:41 PM 12/15/2002 -0800, Creation (Sharon Delaney) wrote: >We're working on getting them out around Christmas time, but the content of >the videos was so extensive that the tapes are still in the approval >process with the studio. Check the fan club web page for the latest kit >updates at http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html >Sharon > > > >To unsubscribe: From your email program, send a blank message >to: flawless-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:43:31 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: OT: States/Countries [was: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style] (*Apologies* to the list for carrying on this OT subject for so long; I just didn't want people to get the impression Hawai'i was a cartoon village push-over, or sumpin'. ;=/ ) On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, cr wrote: > On Saturday 14 December 2002 08:01, Jackie M. Young wrote: >> > > I'd say LL would probably prefer *55 degrees F* to 0 C, to stand outside > > in her Xena outfit in. ;P > > OK, sounds a bit like Kaitaia. You did describe it as 'moderate', I think > I'd call it 'sub-tropical'. - --I dunno about the "sub-", but it is considered "tropical" (usually partnered with "paradise" ;) ). "Moderate" is my own word, not technical. I just read an Island Weekly article about the Big Bounce movie filming here on the North Shore with Owen Wilson, Morgan Freeman, and some lady's name I don't recognize. Wilson is quoted as saying it's like "time off" filming here (because of the environment), compared to the conditions he came from from a set in Eastern Europe, and the director is quoted as saying he's amazed he can film here in winter, wearing shorts. The article says the scenery/Hawai'i becomes almost an extra character in the movie, especially Hale'iwa and the North Shore. (I was gonna audition to be an extra in the movie, but alas, no time.....;( ) Most people who visit here, when I show them around, remark on how *blue* the sea is here, as compared to elsewhere. > P.S. How warm is the sea? - --During the day, probably no more than 10 degrees lower than the outside temp. Since it's almost always 70-80 degrees F here, that's considered pretty warm. ;) No need for body suits, etc. like in CA or Australia. ;P Some people even swim at night, it's so warm, though for safety's sake, it's not recommended. During the summer, temps rarely get into the 90s (usually only the upper 80s); we've *never* seen 100 degrees F here! During the winter, temps rarely get into the 50s (usually only the lower 60s) in the city. The outlying areas and the neighbor islands might get into the 40s, depending on the elevation. To me, that's "moderate". ;) But if Big Bounce can have people running around in bikinis/swimsuits on the beach on the North Shore during our winter here right now, I'm sure LL could've worn her Xena outfit here with no prob. ;) (In fact, she might've been a bit *warm*--I've heard construction workers on the mainland say they think the optimal temp for doing heavy labor is 60 degrees F; since we're usually in the 70s or 80s here during the day, LL might've actually been *sweating* in her leathers!) Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:51:43 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? In a message dated 12/14/2002 7:30:52 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > I think it's pretty obvious Gabrielle wrote the scrolls. After they were > frozen for 25 years people obviously knew about Xena from Gabrielle's > scrolls. Besides which she is the only one we ever see writing scrolls. > Joxer is barely literate, Virgil is busy writting epic poems I can't spell, > David is busy seducin Bathsheba, and Xena is hardly would be writting > scrolls, jus ain't her style. I think she also wrote the Blue Scroll from > Between The Lines just that her name has disappeared from it. > David?!! How the heck did he get on the Scroll-author list? Did I miss some biblical ep other than Altered States and Solstice Carol? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:24:37 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who wrote the scrolls? At 07:51 PM 12/15/2002 -0500, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/14/2002 7:30:52 PM Central Standard Time, >cande@sunlink.net writes: > > > I think it's pretty obvious Gabrielle wrote the scrolls. After they were > > frozen for 25 years people obviously knew about Xena from Gabrielle's > > scrolls. Besides which she is the only one we ever see writing scrolls. > > Joxer is barely literate, Virgil is busy writting epic poems I can't > spell, > > David is busy seducin Bathsheba, and Xena is hardly would be writting > > scrolls, jus ain't her style. I think she also wrote the Blue Scroll from > > Between The Lines just that her name has disappeared from it. > > > >David?!! How the heck did he get on the Scroll-author list? Did I miss some >biblical ep other than Altered States and Solstice Carol? > >-- Ife , dahlink. the oft-revisited scene of gab and xener holding hands as xener looks out of the. . .well, whatever that was they were looking out of (same set as the one they used in the balcony scene?). . .and thinks about her friend goliath. of course, gab doesn't hold hands w/ xener until david blows her off. well he doesn't exactly blow her off, but his GF does pop up in the nick o' and gab takes a hint. david prolly knew about her red-shirtin' ways and wasn't about to go down that road. md--who's still here, tho majorly lurking ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #342 **************************************