From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #337 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, December 12 2002 Volume 02 : Number 337 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] NZ Travel Special [Junejanu@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan 2 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list ["Cheryl Ande" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list ["Lee Daley" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 11 December 2002 14:29, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > ## > # > > "Livia" was a disappointing episode for me. Though it starts out fairly > well it just seems to run out of steam. > (snip) > > That night Gabrielle comforts Xena. She says that with Xena back in Eve's > life she can change like Xena has. Xena says it won't be easy because Eve > has her darkness and Callisto's spirit. This is my first big problem with > this episode. It implies that evil is inherited. Not necessarily. Xena didn't say 'impossible', just 'not easy'. Most certainly, Xena's dark side and Callisto's spirit are, IMO, inheritable. > Eve becomes Livia > because she is predisposed to evil because of who her parents are. We have > seen in other episodes that without Xena's memories of Lyceus's death and > without Callisto's memories of her parents' deaths both women are not evil. > In fact they are good and even rather saintly people. Their will is > strong but it was the traumatic events of their past that twisted that will > to evil purposes. Their strong personalities could have been used for good > instead of evil if the events in their lives had been different. To say > that Eve is evil simply because she is the daughter of Xena and Callisto > just doesn't wash as a reason for her crimes. I don't recall the dialogue, but did they actually say 'evil' or just 'hard to change' ? > > Meanwhile Gabrielle, Joxer and Virgil are getting themselves into trouble. > Livia's soldiers are taking up a collection for the building fund for the > next Ares temple. Joxer tells them to "blow it out their ass" (old Joxer > is significantly grumpier and braver than old Joxer but no wiser) which the > soldiers take to mean he is a follower of Eli. Gabrielle of course now > takes it up herself to make a speech about freedom of religion (cr: this is > a screw up on Gabrielle's part) :) Well, whatever you call it, it shows bad timing. But - at least she didn't drop Xena in it ;) I agree with you on the whole about this ep. It was certainly watchable, but not as good as it could have been. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:41:39 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan 2 On Wednesday 11 December 2002 05:12, Katsunori wrote: > > -The dark super hero characters aren't new for Manga and Anime, we love it > more than perfect super hero like superman. I believe Xwp has been > influenced from Japanese Manga stories. I don't know if Rob Tapert was directly influenced by manga, he may have been. He was certainly influenced by Hong Kong cinema, possibly Hong Kong cinema is influenced by manga? > But no Xwp (sigh) > > I assume the reasons are > > -We don't know much about Greece myth so hard to understand Greece myth so > TV station thinks it doesn't work Well, most audiences in the rest of the world don't know much about Greek myth either. But Greek mythology isn't needed at all to understand XWP. Of course the TV station may not know that. > -TV station might afraid air gay friendly > program in live action (they do in anime) or believing never get good rate > with sub text. Bigger social pressure still exists to gay here than western > country. Well, the subtext isn't that obvious, unless people want to see it. But I guess the show has a reputation for subtext that everyone's heard of. > -No big names to grip audience. > > I hope Fin Video/DVD will create more fan hare also rental Video/DVD able > to survive on the list more than 3 month then we may have some hope. I wish you all good luck! > > I can say FIN is well made overall more than I expected. > This isn't documentary film and TPTB openly said we don't take seriously > about histories. I noticed minor odd thing that was person's names and > water tank at Higuchi > > Akemi, Kenji, Ayako, Miyuki, Saburo these are modern Japanese first names > so shouldn't exist at that time. Sound to me like watching soap > > Morimoto, Harukata are also modern names but used only for family name. > Don't know why they used family and first name? TPTB have always had some strange names. A mixture of ancient Greek names and others from quite unrelated sources. 'Gabrielle' is a modern French name, not Greek at all (so far as I can tell). It would have been better, maybe, if they'd used more suitable Japanese names, but getting it wrong is nothing new for XWP. ;) > cr wrote > > >But I was more interested in the depiction of Japanese > > characters and culture in the episode, and whether this is > > seen by Japanese viewers to be a major defect, or whether > >they're resigned to being inaccurately depicted in foreign > > films just as, say, I'm accustomed to the 'Hollywood' > > view of England..... > > ---That what I wanted to say! > As long as the program entertains people that count that is all about > Hollywood-- so it's fine to me. They don't change way to depict other > cultures - always depict one dimension of culture in add stereo type way. > > Katsunori That's very true. XWP was never, really, about how things were in ancient Greece, either. It was a modern American series (that acquired a trace of Kiwi flavour) transported into a medieval setting. Thanks for the reply cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:04:49 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:22:13 +1300 cr wrote: > > Not necessarily. Xena didn't say > 'impossible', just 'not easy'. Most > certainly, Xena's dark side and Callisto's > spirit are, IMO, inheritable. Yes she said "not easy to change" but she had already declared Livia a monster. I just didn't like the whole reasoning that because Xena and Callisto were at one time evil or at least very bad Livia was predistined to be dark or even evil. What Callisto and Xena had was a strong will and a determined nature plus they were very smart this doesn't make you predisposed to evil or even darkness - their environment make them turn those attributes to darkness and violence. Livia didn't have to be dark or a monster and still she could have exhibited all her mothers' qualities. > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:41:03 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list Every time I read someone else's ton ten I think now why didn't I put that one on my list. There are so many good Xena episodes that it really is hard to come up with just a top ten. So why don't we try a bottom 5 list. Five episodes you didn't like but let's make it interesting and state how you would have been them better. here's my 5 1. Soul Possession. Dumped H, A, & M and make it a Janice and Mel story which would have fit into the archaeology theme. Ares could have saved Gabrielle for the simple reason that it gave him a bargaining chip with Xena. Drop the whole Gabrielle bargains with Ares to save Hope which is complete nonsense. 2. Ulysses - make Ulysses older and more of a clever trickister, as he is potrayed in the legends. Xena and Gabrielle could be genuinely fond of him. Concentrate more on his home coming and saving Penelope. 3. King Con - make it a much more light-hearted episode. Drope the idea of beating poor Joxer to a pulp. make it an Autolycus episode. 4. Livia - comb Livia's hair, get a good make-up man and tone down the shrill bitchiness - give the woman a bit of dignity and elegance so that we really think she was raised as a Roman patrician. 5. Fishsticks - Gabrielle should be concentrating on the children. I really liked the analysis that said that Gabrielle is always the mother of monsters but where as Hope who was beautiful was the true monster while the boys who looked like monsters were just normal kids. That could be played up and Gabrielle could have had a chance to be a good mom. You know five episodes were tough. I don't dislike 5 episodes that much. These were just the ones I though could use some work. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:48:08 -0500 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] Bottom 5 list > -----Original Message----- >Behalf Of Cheryl Ande So why don't we try a bottom 5 > list. Five > episodes you didn't like but let's make it interesting and state how you > would have been them better. > > 2. Ulysses - make Ulysses older and more of a clever trickister, as he is > potrayed in the legends. Xena and Gabrielle could be genuinely > fond of him. > Concentrate more on his home coming and saving Penelope. Works for me, I can see a Sean Conneryesq Ulysses. I think someone was working on a "Xena hits the sack with every male hero in antiquity" arc. Thank the Goddess "Ulysses" nipped it in the bud. > > 3. King Con - not airing it. This episode was kind of hopeless. Although beating Joxer to a pulp was a high spot for some. The whole Rafe thing didn't fly, it was almost as if it was a forced mandatory "hetero" episode. > > > 5. Fishsticks - Gabrielle should be concentrating on the children. I > really liked the analysis that said that Gabrielle is always the mother of > monsters but where as Hope who was beautiful was the true monster > while the > boys who looked like monsters were just normal kids. That could be played > up and Gabrielle could have had a chance to be a good mom. They say "dreams" reflect what is really going on in your mind. A little touch of this would have been interesting. > LeeD Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:41:06 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] La Maupin, swordswoman The Economist magazine, Dec. 7, p. 81, has a review of a new book, By the Sword: A History of Gladiators, Musketeers, Samurai, Swashbucklers, and Olympic Champions, by Richard Cohen, himself an Olympic fencer. "Most irresistible, perhaps, are Mr. Cohen's accounts of the women who excelled as fencers. The heroine of Arturo Perez-Reverte's wonderful novel, "The Fencing Master", was a fiction; inspiration may have come from Julie d'Aubigny, known as La Maupin, a ferocious beauty, who used her fencing skills to demolish rival suitors for any woman she fancied. Escaping imprisonment in the Bastille to become mistress of the Elector of Bavaria, la Maupin made her debut at the Paris Opera in 1690 before retiring to a convent where she died at the age of 37. In a book filled with less colorful histories than this, her life would, without doubt, overshadow all competition; here, it features as part of a vivid and hugely enjoyable pageant of extraordinary tales." Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:55:17 EST From: HawkFalco@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] La Maupin, swordswoman How intriguing. Thanks for the news. I did a google search and found an interesting page on the swordswoman. http://users.rcn.com/brons/Maupin/LaMaupin.html I read Arturo Perez-Reverte's "The Fencing Master" and enjoyed it very much. Hawk ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #337 **************************************