From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #336 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 10 2002 Volume 02 : Number 336 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers [Xwpacolyte@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan 2 ["Katsunori" ] [chakram-refugees] [OT] Galileo maps Callisto [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:19:10 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? In a message dated 02-12-09 03:07:30 EST, you write: << In Gurkhan, OTOH, Xena had just been beaten half to death by Gurkhan. That's what really grated with me. In fact, her grovelling was so out of character I was amazed Gurkhan could believe it, coming from anybody. >> I saw the beating as necessary to save Gabrielle and as having confidence in her will and toughness to survive. I didn't see her groveling either. In the dungeon, she wins Gurkhan's admiration with her spunk in wanting to be No. 1 Wifey, despite hanging upside down with blood dripping on the floor. When she dances for him, it's obvious she's exerting her seductive powers over him, rather than the other way around. And when she has the nerve to call for No. 1 Wifey's head, she shows who has the upper hand once again. She never begged. She stated her goal and she won it, with no fear ever displayed, which is what I think intrigued Gurkhan and made her stand out from the groveling he was used to. She managed to look in charge even when she's lying on the floor in supposed "submission." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:19:09 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List In a message dated 02-12-09 04:50:54 EST, KT writes: Ife said, > In the end, I imagined the horror of losing all but a couple handfuls of eps > and asked myself which ones I'd most want to keep for myself ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!! Oh gods--wash your mouth out with soap, young lady! Now you've got me thinking I should go rent a safety deposit box...>> Hey, I'm seriously considering doing that with at least one set of each season. Even tho I hate the commercials on my TV tapes, I like seeing the previews for the upcoming ep. << Damn--but that thought does indeed focus the mind and heighten the intensity of the 10 faves quest. Hmmm, yeah, I think I'll take that into account for my final winnowing.>> Well, when it comes down to it, I'm not sure I can separate "best" eps in terms of overall production from "best" in terms of how eps hit me. "Debt" is easy because it excels in nearly all categories for most people (except possibly those who didn't like Gabs' betrayal). In other cases, it's hard to come up with "objective" choices, when you consider that if it hit you, it served its purpose as entertainment, so must've done something right. I said in another post that I would've had "Xena Scrolls" or "You Are There" for their uniqueness, but not if it meant I couldn't have one of my top 10. I'm sure we'll each have different reasons for the selecting something another person would absolutely reject. and to show > someone else a representative sampling of why I loved the show so much. << Hmmm. But you know--that's a slightly different list for me. I mean I think that Ides is fantastic but if you don't know what Callisto and Caesar's history with Xena is I think surely it can't be quite so fine an ep without having that background. I use A Day In The Life for easing folks into the series. And I'd show them the Debt too.>> I must respectfully disagree about "Ides." I could tell someone in a few words what roles Callisto and Caesar played. The bitterness is right there to fill in the emotional blanks. More importantly, it says it all about X&G's love for each other, their willingness to sacrifice for and protect each other. I'd use "Sins" to introduce someone new, along with "A Day" and "Callisto." "Destiny" would be useful, and probably "Reckoning" (for Ares), but I couldn't squeeze those into my top 10. I > lumped comedies and ubers in with the rest. Here's what I came up with, > along with acceptable alternatives: > > 1. The Debt I&2 (S3) > 2. Sins of the Past (S1) > 3. Ides of March (S4) > 4. Adventures in the Sin Trade 1&2 (S4) > 5. Been There, Done That (S3) > 6. A Day in the Life (S2) > 7. The Price (S2) or Crusader (S4) > 8. A Friend in Need 1&2 (S6) > 9. Between The Lines or The Way (S4) > 10. Callisto (S1) > I like your choices mostly. But why Callisto? Did someone already say that Return of Callisto is preferable to them? It is for me because of Xena watching Callisto die. That ep and the Price were the first ones to begin to foreshadow the depth of Xena's story which we were going to start seeing from season three on.>> Yes, I had "ROC" on my list at first, especially because that's the ep that sucked me in for good. I also like "Necessary Evil" and "Maternal Instincts" for their portrayal of Cally. But there's something about the introduction of that character (not to mention the ladder fight) in "Callisto" that I just wouldn't want to lose. <> Did you guess right? -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:19:12 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 02-12-09 04:38:27 EST, you write: << The great irony was that Ares' love would end up being the one > factor Xena hadn't counted on. I'm sure it never occurred to her that he > would honor her in death as he had so mightily resisted when she was alive. > > -- Ife Was that, maybe, the biggest (and most marvellous) bit of irony in the whole series? I can't think of any greater one. >> Possibly that she ended up sacrificing her soul for the person who hated her most (Callisto) and her life because of someone who had betrayed her (Akemi). But those were both intentional acts. The beauty of the Ares irony was that she should have known him better, yet was not able to predict what he might do. He was the weakest link in her plan not because of the qualities she resisted in him, but because of the one weakness he had when it came to her. So, I guess I'd have to agree with you. Indeed, I'd always hoped the series ender would somehow involve Ares, as he was the only one of her supernatural enemies that I really cared about. I know Tapert wanted to show them moving beyond the Greek gods, but I didn't feel the passion -- Xena's gut-level personal investment -- in Xena's battles with all those other forces. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:19:13 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 02-12-09 04:37:39 EST, you write: << > LOL! Save your breath. Given who was bidding on the scroll, SOMEONE will > probably scoff at the taste of those who wanted to read it. 'SOMEONE' ? Not an oblique reference to me, by any chance? Actually, I never thought of that. I just figured maybe the Gabscrolls had 'cult' status.... the same way the Xena videos at our best local video hire store are listed in the 'cult' section.... >> LOL! No, I had SOMEONE else in mind, who doesn't think much of Gabby's bardly skills. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:08:24 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers On Monday 09 December 2002 23:07, KTL wrote: > > At about this time, she did that TV guide cover with Jeri Ryan and ET did > a spot on it. And again, she was almost mesmerizing in her beauty. I > taped it and I must have replayed that spot dozens of times over the next > few weeks just staring in awe at the screen. How could anyone be so > physically perfect? (And f course, then she told us later that it was > like the unhappiest time of her life.) Hmmm. Suffering becomes her? It certainly does Xena. ;) But yeah, LL looked exceptionally good in Sin Trade. Haunted, but magnificent. > > Perhaps I should suggest to all those uber writers that they call > themselves Joxer's Girls. I'm sure they'd LOVE that. "You must have a death wish!" (Velasca). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:19:31 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List On Tuesday 10 December 2002 09:46, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Kt said, > "The Quill didn't make any cut" > > Coming late to this discussion, I assume you all are talking about favorite > episodes again. > > I have to say that The Quill is mightier still has for me one of the > funniest scenes in the series. > > The one where Ares comes plummeting to the ground after GAbrielle writes, > ("and the power of war vanished from the earth")("where are my power!? > What did you do to my powers!?), and then soon after when Aphrodite comes > kerplunk plummeting out of the sky onto Ares' head and takes him out, after > Gabrielle writes, (" the force that enchanted the scroll has lost its > power"). > > Funny funny. > > Hi, everyone! > > Lilli If I was rating my top ten comedies, The Quill Is Mightier would defintiely be in the list. Well above FF&G, ISAIH, and most of the others. Ummm.... You Are There Royal Couple of Thieves Send in the Clones The Quill is Mightier Miss Amphipolis Ten Little Warlords (well, it was a drama, but I laughed at it more than most comedies) If the Shoe Fits Umm, there were some others that were okay, but really, there are a dozen dramatic eps that I left out of my Top Ten list for lack of space that would rate way higher than most of the comedies I've just listed. And even in comedic terms, eps like A Necessary Evil have more moments in them that made me laugh from sheer delight, than almost any of the comedies. I guess I like black humour better than slapstick. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:01:20 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List On Monday 09 December 2002 22:50, KTL wrote: > > Lordy, it was hard eliminating eps. I thought some were excellent for > > one reason, but that others were equally excellent for other reasons. > > Some were standalone gems, while others were critical to the series. I > > did settle on a few key criteria (which, interestingly, did not include > > plot): > > LOL! Hey--this is a T&A action adventure show. Who needs plot? *I* do! Plot driven *good*, character driven slack! (Just thought I'd slaughter a few sacred cows....) > Hmmm. But you know--that's a slightly different list for me. I mean I > think that Ides is fantastic but if you don't know what Callisto and > Caesar's history with Xena is I think surely it can't be quite so fine an > ep without having that background. I use A Day In The Life for easing > folks into the series. And I'd show them the Debt too. Hmmm. I'd use Royal Couple of Thieves for that, I think. > I > > lumped comedies and ubers in with the rest. Here's what I came up with, > > along with acceptable alternatives: > > > > 1. The Debt I&2 (S3) > > 2. Sins of the Past (S1) > > 3. Ides of March (S4) > > 4. Adventures in the Sin Trade 1&2 (S4) > > 5. Been There, Done That (S3) > > 6. A Day in the Life (S2) > > 7. The Price (S2) or Crusader (S4) > > 8. A Friend in Need 1&2 (S6) > > 9. Between The Lines or The Way (S4) > > 10. Callisto (S1) > > I like your choices mostly. But why Callisto? Did someone already say > that Return of Callisto is preferable to them? It is for me because of > Xena watching Callisto die. That ep and the Price were the first ones to > begin to foreshadow the depth of Xena's story which we were going to start > seeing from season three on. > > So what it is about Callisto that makes it a "must-have" to you? I'm > guessing something but I'm waiting for your answer. Errrm - it has the first appearance of Joxer in it? ;) Myself, like you KT, much prefer Return of Callisto. I think Hudson has commented that after Callisto's forst appearance, they started to have fun with the character. Certainly, as far as I'm concerned, I didn't find Callisto very interesting in'Callisto', she was much more fun to watch in RoC and successive eps. > > I hated leaving out any of the season 3 "rift" eps, because I think they > > had some of the best acting and dramatic tension. > > Yes--that was the most amazing thing to me, how XWP leapt into suddenly > being "art" that year as opposed to just being a damn fine, good, well > worth watching show. > > the sake of bandwidth> > > KT B***er reasoning, here's my ten, and they're in there just 'cos I *like* them the very best.... Destiny The Debts 1&2 Maternal Instincts Sacrifice 1 & 2 Sin Trade 1 & 2 Ides of March Motherhood The 'Ring' trilogy (I know that's 3 eps, but I'm gonna cheat blatantly!) You Are There Friend in Need 1 & 2 and for a bit of variety... Lifeblood (but only for the Amazon High bits :) OK, so that's 11 anyway, and I never could stop with these things. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:26:59 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 10 December 2002 10:18, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > CherylA wrote: > > "(obvious this scene was suppose to precede > the Fates scene since X & G are > sporting wounds at the Fate's Temple that are > received in this battle - > Gabby took a little literary license here). " > > cr answered: > "Umm, I'm afraid I still think it must be a > YAXI. ..." > > I think the answer is a simple editing decision. The visit to the Fates > Temple works best as a set-up for the episode. The fight with the gods > follow to show the pressure Xena is under and introduces Athena's belief > that Xena will not be separated from Eve. Then that is followed by > Octavius's tent scene and the red herring of the poison bottle is > introduced and Octavius is introduced as an ally who obviously is attached > to baby Eve. Do you mean, they filmed them in the Fates temple with the wounds, then in editing decided to bring that scene forwards? But that's still a YAXI, whatever the cause. > "I thought Ares was still being just slightly > contemptuous of Athena, even > when she was leaning over him. After all, > what was she going to do to him?" > > I think he was suprised that Athena was so pissed at him. I think he was > still sibling one upsmanship mode when Athena turned on him. Yes, I'd agree with that. But he controlled his alarm fairly well, I thought. Nice bit of acting by KS. > "That was marvellous film-making. Ares was > being truly a considerate, deeply respectful person in that scene. And > of course, the marvellous irony was that, entirely due to his consideration > and respect, he screwed Xena's plan > completely." > > Yeah I didn't really see the irony until you pointed it out but it is true. > The first time Ares acts like he truly loves Xena he screws up her plans > big time. All the times he was a heel he never put a cramp in any of her > plans. That second point is one I hadn't noticed - but yes, I think you're right. Just adds to the irony, doesn't it? "My enemies I can handle, just protect me from my friends" :) > > "Yes, I accept that in this one, Gabrielle did > all that was asked of her. She couldn't have done better. Though you will > note my little reservation about 'famous bard'. How about 'biographer'? > ;) Since most of the references to her literary works seem to emphasise > their subject - Xena - rather than the literary merits of the works > themselves. (That's just my impression - I could be wrong > and I'm sure you'll correct me if I am :) > > There is nothing wrong with being a biographer. Biography is a very > respectable literary form - a Pulitzer is given for biography. So you can > be a great writer and a biographer - na..na..na ;-) > > CherylA The two are compatible but not necessarily inseperable ;) cr .... getting in his own na..na..na ;) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:58:31 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 10 December 2002 20:19, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 02-12-09 04:38:27 EST, you write: > > << The great irony was that Ares' love would end up being the one > > factor Xena hadn't counted on. I'm sure it never occurred to her that > > he would honor her in death as he had so mightily resisted when she was > > alive. > > > > -- Ife > > Was that, maybe, the biggest (and most marvellous) bit of irony in the > whole series? I can't think of any greater one. >> > > Possibly that she ended up sacrificing her soul for the person who hated > her most (Callisto) and her life because of someone who had betrayed her > (Akemi). But those were both intentional acts. The beauty of the Ares > irony was that she should have known him better, yet was not able to > predict what he might do. He was the weakest link in her plan not because > of the qualities she resisted in him, but because of the one weakness he > had when it came to her. So, I guess I'd have to agree with you. Indeed, > I'd always hoped the series ender would somehow involve Ares, as he was the > only one of her supernatural enemies that I really cared about. I know > Tapert wanted to show them moving beyond the Greek gods, but I didn't feel > the passion -- Xena's gut-level personal investment -- in Xena's battles > with all those other forces. > > -- Ife Hmmm, yes, I think I would have liked to see Ares in the series ender, though I'm not sure how he could have been worked in. My first notion - that Gabby could have got Xena's ashes to Ares and he revived her - and Xena would then owe him bigtime, which would be a good source of contention - would work fine for a sequel, but not for a finale, it would have involved too much time delay and would have been an anticlimax, I think. But yes, as between Xena and Ares, it was personal, and compelling viewing. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:59:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 10 December 2002 20:19, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 02-12-09 04:37:39 EST, you write: > > LOL! No, I had SOMEONE else in mind, who doesn't think much of Gabby's > bardly skills. > > -- Ife Ah. KT. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:49:56 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? On Tuesday 10 December 2002 20:19, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 02-12-09 03:07:30 EST, you write: > > << In Gurkhan, OTOH, Xena had just been beaten half to death by Gurkhan. > That's what really grated with me. In fact, her grovelling was so out of > character I was amazed Gurkhan could believe it, coming from anybody. >> > > I saw the beating as necessary to save Gabrielle and as having confidence > in her will and toughness to survive. I didn't see her groveling either. > In the dungeon, she wins Gurkhan's admiration with her spunk in wanting to > be No. 1 Wifey, despite hanging upside down with blood dripping on the > floor. This is the guy who just did that to her and she *still* wants to be his wife? Unfrickenbelievable! (To quiote Ares :) I see your point but it just doesn't work that way for me. It made me squirm. > When she dances for him, it's obvious she's exerting her seductive > powers over him, rather than the other way around. Well, that was OK. > And when she has the > nerve to call for No. 1 Wifey's head, she shows who has the upper hand once > again. Didn't get it, though, did she? ;) That was another minor frustration - No 1 wife was so obnoxious, I was looking forward to her getting her comeuppance from Xena.... and then of course she turns out to be Gab's niece or whatnot, so she gets away with it. Grrrrr. :( > She never begged. She stated her goal and she won it, with no fear > ever displayed, which is what I think intrigued Gurkhan and made her stand > out from the groveling he was used to. She managed to look in charge even > when she's lying on the floor in supposed "submission." > > -- Ife Hmmm, maybe you can look at it that way but it just doesn't work for me, unfortunately. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 05:36:55 EST From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? xena does whatever is necessary to complete her goals. Kill someone, beg, grovel, defy the gods, etc. She is not a flawless character and sometimes her plans fail and gabby or a supporting character has to lend a hand to get to her goal. If she were 100% flawless the show would be uninteresting and as is obvious from her past...she has made many mistakes and not been in command of a situation.....she just finds a way to pull it out at the end because she is "just that damn good". I had to use a wrestlers line for that one. hehe ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:26:50 EST From: Xwpacolyte@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers In a message dated 12/9/02 4:19:37 AM Central Standard Time, KTL writes: << Yup. And what cracks me up about the whole uber fan-fic thing is that it all comes to us from a Joxer's descendent's scroll. The story in the Xena Scrolls is not from a Gabrielle scroll. Either Jacques Sur wrote it or his modern day descendent who claimed he found it wrote it. Or perhaps either one of them wrote all the scrolls that the stories came from. >> It's been awhile since I've watched The Xena Scrolls, but iirc, near the end of the ep when Jack was getting on his motorcycle to leave, his bag got switched with Dr. Covington's and that's how he and his descendants came to be in possession of the scrolls. I just can't let KT get away with not giving Gabby full credit for all her writings. At least not when there's room for argument. XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:04:15 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:26:59 +1300 cr wrote: > > Do you mean, they filmed them in the Fates > temple with the wounds, then in > editing decided to bring that scene forwards? > But that's still a YAXI, > whatever the cause. > Yep that's what I mean. Yes it is still a YAXI but a deliberate one - not something that was a mistake because of inattention (see Soul Possession where Xena is wearing the new chakram when she see should have the old one). I can only assume that either TPTB decided no one would notice or that the narrative from the scrolls jump forward a bit and then went back to show what lead up to the Temple scene. Whatever it was more dramatic to start with The Fates decreeing Xena's "death". CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:12:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Katsunori" Subject: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan 2 Hi again My Japanese spelling in roman for Japanese FIN title was wrong NOT > "Jeena" Should be "JIINA" (in katakana, You can see the character on DVD/Video cover) Sorry A year ago I searched "Xena" as key word in Yahoo Japan but didn't hit much page in Japanese. But I found some Sci-fi pages talking about Xwp this time and most of them loved Xwp and saying will be big hit on Japanese TV if it's aired. Then found this info FIN Video is available in Japan. Even there is one Xena fan page (but it was down) We should take grain of salt of the survey. Someone wouldn't write if they don't like it unless they want to boycott the show. Most of person watched the show outside of Japan or obtained the recorded tape from US military base broadcasting in Japan. I think Japan has some market potential for Xwp. - -The dark super hero characters aren't new for Manga and Anime, we love it more than perfect super hero like superman. I believe Xwp has been influenced from Japanese Manga stories. - -Action is cooler than any other series airing in Japan now Buffy & Angel are on Fox channel Japan (on satellite) Even Sarah Michelle Gellar appeared Maybelline mascara CM but NO LL's Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi CM yet. Dark angel just finished 2nd season, was aired in prime time on Monday nation wide that was unusually good slot for foreign TV series. But we don't know yet coming back next season or not yet. Star Trek, ER have been aired for long time, La Femme Nikita is airing in Sunday late night so most of poplar series in US are airing here. But no Xwp (sigh) I assume the reasons are - -We don't know much about Greece myth so hard to understand Greece myth so TV station thinks it doesn't work - -TV station might afraid air gay friendly program in live action (they do in anime) or believing never get good rate with sub text. Bigger social pressure still exists to gay here than western country. - -No big names to grip audience. I hope Fin Video/DVD will create more fan hare also rental Video/DVD able to survive on the list more than 3 month then we may have some hope. cr wrote >What do Japanese audiences think of Friend in Need? >Will it worry them that Rob Tapert has got some details > wrong? (I'm sure he must have changed some things from >Japanese tradition). - ---Well most of Japanese don't except the accuracy of Japan on American film anyway. Unless it's documentary (even so we don't expect too much we always have been shown odd Japan) Japanese & Chinese culture are always mixed up (specially music!) Showing very concrete stereo type of Japanese such as bows every time people meet and camera hanging from neck all the time taking picture all the time, person stay silent and just bow etc. Even American government act disregarding other cultures and sometimes and forcing American way as intentional standard (IMO) I can say FIN is well made overall more than I expected. This isn't documentary film and TPTB openly said we don't take seriously about histories. I noticed minor odd thing that was person's names and water tank at Higuchi Akemi, Kenji, Ayako, Miyuki, Saburo these are modern Japanese first names so shouldn't exist at that time. Sound to me like watching soap Morimoto, Harukata are also modern names but used only for family name. Don't know why they used family and first name? I don't think water tank existed at that time. People wouldn't live without water sources such as well, river, or spring. They would make a pond if they want reserve water. I don't see any of the water tanks in ancient Japan in movie. Other small nitpicking is "Mt. Fujisan" "San" means Mountain X was saying Mount Fiji Mountain Should say Mt.Fuji You can find these mistakes on the road here in Japan in English sign too. Ife wrote > especially that big explosion. I've read that the Japanese > are used to big "fireworks" in their action films, that > they wouldn't be offended by the similarity of the > mushroom cloud in Friend In Need with the bombs > dropped there in World War II. - ---Oh Even I don't think about it that way. If so then might become yet another "The Way" issues. Now people in Hiroshima & Nagasaki try to stop fading the way these experience from people's hart but can't be help. Someone born 1945 is now 57. Time heal these sad memories in fading. Jackie wrote >he agreed with me about the lack of authentic Japanese >casting. ;P Sojourner wrote >I guess that's the same issue as the lack of authentic > Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Chinese etc etc casting. And > the oddness of polynesian (Maori, Tongan, Samoan > etc etc) casting in a Greek story. No wonder they went to cr wrote >Well, one could ask, since it will apparently be seen by > very few people in Japan, does the casting really matter? > As Sojourner noted, most other ethnic types in the > series were non-authentic too, including most notably > Greeks and Romans, but also Arabs of all kinds. - ---I agreed the fact with Jackie but that was not big issue for the nature of the program. They always did as Sojourner and cr wrote. More Japanese casting might make better result but TPTB would do same direction for Japan. So I think should have Japanese specialist who have experience on Samurai movie to help TPTB that might make big difference than casting. cr wrote >But I was more interested in the depiction of Japanese > characters and culture in the episode, and whether this is > seen by Japanese viewers to be a major defect, or whether >they're resigned to being inaccurately depicted in foreign > films just as, say, I'm accustomed to the 'Hollywood' > view of England..... - ---That what I wanted to say! As long as the program entertains people that count that is all about Hollywood-- so it's fine to me. They don't change way to depict other cultures - always depict one dimension of culture in add stereo type way. Katsunori The most personalized portal on the Web! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:24:10 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List cr wrote: >If I was rating my top ten comedies, The Quill Is Mightier would defintiely be in the list. Well above FF&G, ISAIH, and most of the others. > >Ummm.... > >You Are There >Royal Couple of Thieves >Send in the Clones >The Quill is Mightier >Miss Amphipolis >Ten Little Warlords (well, it was a drama, but I laughed at it more than most >comedies) >If the Shoe Fits > and, if i were to choose.....hmmmmm, well slapstick is what I was raised with in the 1950's East Coast of the united states. So, though I like more subtle humor, i have to admit that i liked things like In Sickness and In Health; Lyre, Lyre, also also ones like A Day in the Life. Lots of slapstick humor. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:31:32 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] [OT] Galileo maps Callisto From CNN.COM-- Potato-shaped moon riddled with holes By Richard Stenger CNN Tuesday, December 10, 2002 Posted: 10:04 AM EST (1504 GMT) (CNN) -- A daring flyby by a NASA probe revealed that an oddly shaped moon orbiting Jupiter is full of empty gaps and as light as ice, the space agency said this week. The tiny satellite, called Amalthea, is probably a loose collection of rocky rubble with empty gaps taking up more space than the boulders, according to mission scientists. The newly released data comes from Galileo, which last month flew within 100 miles (160 kilometers) of the reddish moon, giving an unprecedented glimpse into the physical qualities of the potato-shaped planetoid. "The density is unexpectedly low," said John Anderson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, which manages Galileo. "It's probably boulder-sized or larger pieces just touching each other, not pressing hard together." The overall density compares with that of frozen water, but planetary scientists are convinced that the oblong-shaped object, which is about 170 miles (270 kilometers) in length and half that in width, is not a space iceberg. "Nothing in the Jupiter system would suggest a composition that's mainly ice," Anderson said. Galileo has mapped and studied many of Jupiter's 39 known moons, in particular four the size of small planets -- Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. The November 5 flight was the riskiest of Galileo's seven-year stay in the Jovian system, bringing it three times closer to Jupiter than ever before. Drawing of $1.4 billion Galileo craft The descent took the $1.4 billion craft deep into the largest planet's radiation belts, which unleash punishing levels of energy that in the past have temporarily knocked out onboard instruments. Galileo has survived four times the radiation it was designed to withstand, but the bus-sized craft is showing signs of wear and tear. Its camera has been shuttered for months. Its tape playback data has repeatedly stuck. Its fuel supply is nearly exhausted. Overall, it has proved remarkably resilient, taking more than 10,000 images of molten volcanoes on Io, strange ice groves on Europa and a mysterious bright spot on Amalthea. The most recent flyby helped position Galileo for one final mission, a fatal dive into the crushing atmosphere of Jupiter in September. The plunge will ensure that Galileo does not strike and contaminate Europa, thought to contain an underground saltwater ocean that might harbor microbial life. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:29:12 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## # "Livia" was a disappointing episode for me. Though it starts out fairly well it just seems to run out of steam. The story opens with Livia, Commander of the Roman Legions, slaughtering some innocent villagers. Up pops Ares to congratulate his newest chosen and lover on being made Caesar's heir. It doesn't take much imagination to know that this Eve - now a warrior for Rome. Back at the ice cave spring has sprung and Xena has thawed out. She breaks Gabrielle out of her ice tray and they go in search of Eve. At the nearest village they find out they are in Italy, Ares is nowhere in sight,they've been out of action for 25 years and no one has the vaguest idea who Octavius is. The pair travels to the nearest tavern (they are undoubtedly hungry for breakfast). There they are surprised to come across the warrior/bard cafe. This is actually my favorite part of the episode. The tavern is a shrine to Xena and Gabrielle - chakrams festoon the walls, Gabrielle's BGSB is on display as are Xena dolls, and posters of our two gals are on the wall, in other words it looks a lot like my bedroom. Waiting on the customers is an older and dumpier version of Xena - Meg. Xena is astounded they were look a likes - Gabrielle offers advice to her friend: "stay way from the starches". Meg spies the two and complements the two on their perfect costumes but tells Gabrielle that the real Gabrielle wasn't "so butch" much to Gabrielle's confusion. In comes old Joxer with a humongous Bard Burger as the couple squabble Joxer spies Xena and Gabrielle. There is a happy and teary reunion. Joxer fills the pair in as to what has happened in the insuring 25 years. Octavius took Eve and he doesn't know what has happened to either of them. Joxer looked for the couple for years until Argo died. This news is greeted with obvious grief by Xena and Gabrielle but Joxer has a surprise for them. Outside in the corral is Argo's daughter. The spitting image of her mom the filly has never been ridden. Xena wastes no time in saddling Argo II and demonstrating that this Argo will be as faithful as her mother. Joxer has another surprise - a handsome son, Virgil, who idolizes his hero father. Together the four decide to travel to Rome to find Octavius and Eve. In Rome there will be a victory parade for Livia the hero of Rome. This would be a perfect place to find Octavius. Xena takes off for the parade and sees that Augustus Caesar is actually Octavius (this is very perceptive of Xena since August doesn't seem to look at all like young Octavius - he doesn't even have the same eye color). Sneaking into see Octavius it doesn't take long for Xena to figure out that Livia and Eve are the same person. Xena is upset - her daughter is not only a warrior but has killed and enslaved innocents. She is a monster. Octavius however says that Livia is Rome's greatest hero and his wife to be. That night Gabrielle comforts Xena. She says that with Xena back in Eve's life she can change like Xena has. Xena says it won't be easy because Eve has her darkness and Callisto's spirit. This is my first big problem with this episode. It implies that evil is inherited. Eve becomes Livia because she is predisposed to evil because of who her parents are. We have seen in other episodes that without Xena's memories of Lyceus's death and without Callisto's memories of her parents' deaths both women are not evil. In fact they are good and even rather saintly people. Their will is strong but it was the traumatic events of their past that twisted that will to evil purposes. Their strong personalities could have been used for good instead of evil if the events in their lives had been different. To say that Eve is evil simply because she is the daughter of Xena and Callisto just doesn't wash as a reason for her crimes. At the arena in Rome Livia and Ares are working out. Livia has indeed inherited mom's flipping ability and fighting prowess. Ares is impressed and soon he and Livia are passionately kissing. Xena arrives and is not pleased that Ares is kissing her little girl and uses her chakram to break the pair up. Ares sees Xena and Livia is forgotten. He is mesmerized, he tries to kiss Xena, Xena head butts him, yippee his girlfriend's back. Livia is not happy - who is this woman who Ares finds so fascinating. Ares introduces Livia to Xena the woman he has mourned for years. Livia threatens Xena with a sword but Xena merely flips out of the arena (Xena flips better that Livia - things are looking bad for Livia). Meanwhile Gabrielle, Joxer and Virgil are getting themselves into trouble. Livia's soldiers are taking up a collection for the building fund for the next Ares temple. Joxer tells them to "blow it out their ass" (old Joxer is significantly grumpier and braver than old Joxer but no wiser) which the soldiers take to mean he is a follower of Eli. Gabrielle of course now takes it up herself to make a speech about freedom of religion (cr: this is a screw up on Gabrielle's part) which results in a brawl and their arrest. In the Roman dungeon Gabrielle finds out that Virgil is a budding poet, and that he thinks his father is great hero. Gabrielle confirms that his father was indeed a hero. Livia arrives at the prison and chooses Virgil to fight in the arena against on the morrow. Xena is still very busy. She visits Octavius and reveals that Livia is having an affair with Ares and that her marriage to Octavius is just a power grab. Octavius doesn't believe her. Xena arranges a trap. At the bacchanalia that night she wants Octavius to watch Ares and Livia. That night bacchanalia is in full swing (note the music is the same as heard in Girls Just Want To Have Fun). All the woman have bad hair and too much eye make-up. Xena arrives in her party dress and veil - she's an elegant waitress. Ocatvius draws Livia aside and they watch Xena confront Ares. Ares is thrilled that Xena is here he makes it known that Livia is history if Xena will join him and they kiss passionately. Livia is incensed, Octavius is furious. Livia finds herself without a boyfriend, fianci, and empire. Xena now goes to find Livia. Ares stops her and tells her that he now knows that Livia is Eve.. Although he threatens Eve, Xena is still determined to win Eve back to the good side. Livia is not happy - she is throwing a hissy fit. She has lost all her boyfriends, her career, and the woman who did this also has obviously found the only good hairdresser and dress maker in Rome. Things get worse. Xena arrives, catches all of Livia's daggers and announced she is mom. Livia takes this as well as can be expected, she challenges Xena to fight to the death in the arena. At the Arena, Joxer, Gabrielle, Virgil and assorted innocents await the fight that will mean either their freedom or death. Livia arrives on her horse, proud and confident - the crown loves her. Xena arrives in her Roman armor and the fight begins. There is a lot of flipping - a little too much flipping - - Xena and Livia begin to look like Peter Pan on speed. The crowd is impressed, they begin to cheer for Xena. Xena between flips tries to reason with Eve but Eve says she is Livia not Eve. Finally Xena puts the pinch on Eve but releases even when Eve says she would rather die. Gabrielle cries out for the crowd to follow Xena's example of mercy and release the prisoners. The crowd and Caesar agree - the prisoners are released but Eve vows vengeance. Xena is sure Eve will do terrible things. TO BE CONTINUED Well the major problem I had with this episode was Livia. After seeing Eve as a baby and knowing how much she was loved by Xena and Gabrielle and her extended family it was profoundly disappointing to see her not just as evil but as an annoying bitch. I never for a moment believed that this woman could lead an army or be a great warrior. She can fight with a sword and flip but she certainly didn't inherited Xena's charisma or even Callisto's sardonic humor either trait would have made the character so much more interesting. Also I thought the whole Livia, Roman Conqueror, lacked imagination. It was just too easy to make her another dark warrior - so she could suffer angst like Xena. I have no problems with Eve being a warrior but why not something different. Eve could have been an honorable warrior who is on the cusp of being seduced by Ares. The we would have had the drama of Eve being torn between Ares and Xena. Joxer could have taken Eve to the Amazon (he knew she was an Amazon princess) and she could have been a warrior. Eve could have been raised as a Roman lady who was attracted to Eli's message and was now their champion. Anything except the whiny Bitch of Rome with the bad hair. I frankly at first blamed Adrienne Wilkins for not being able to handle the part. When I saw her at one of the conventions I saw a young lady who had a great deal of poise and real strength. Her Eve in You Are There was great - there was a strong leader and personality plus a flair for comedy that could have been incorporated into the serious Livia and Eve parts. No I think the failure was TPTB. Livia just wasn't developed very well as a character. She had no motivation for her actions and was very much just a stock villain. The fans and Xena deserved better from them - the emergence of the grown-up Eve should have been a memorable event not just an annoyance. Next week Livia and Joxer tangle - guess who wins. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. 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