From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #334 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, December 9 2002 Volume 02 : Number 334 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! ["Jackie M] Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! [Sojourner] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style [cr > [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style [KTL > In a message dated 12/8/2002 4:33:14 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > # > # > # > # > # > > This episode has no right to be as good as it is. It should be just a > simple > gimmicky episode to drop Xena and Gabrielle in the deep freeze for 25 years > and to get Eve grown up. Instead we have a fine action packed adventure and > wonderful performances by LL, KS, Paris Jefferson and astonishingly enough > by > Ted Raimi.>> Yes! One of those unsung gems, like Family Affair and Paradise Lost. All that unbelievable stuff in it, yet the actors still "sell" it and kept me on the edge of my seat. > > The story opens in the future Joxer is an old middle aged man drinking in a > tavern when he hears that a peddle has a scroll for sale. Not any scroll > but > the last scroll of the Bard of Potedia (note to gabscoffers - see she's > famous > and well-known as an author). >> LOL! Save your breath. Given who was bidding on the scroll, SOMEONE will probably scoff at the taste of those who wanted to read it. Joxer spends all his wife's (Meg) money on > the > scroll. >> I couldn't believe the time they must've spent on Lucy's makeup, for the blink of an eye (and belch? fart?) that she was on. In the barn with his children he reads the scroll.>> Looked more like his grandchildren. On one of the blooper tapes, Ted, LL and ROC can't stop laughing when their characters first meet up. Oh, and I guess Meg was blessed with the ability to have children after all. > > Xena is fed up with being chased by all the gods in Olympus and goes to see > the Fates for a few answers. The Fates inform her that only after Xena has > tasted the "essence of death" can the twilight begin and Eve be free from > the > gods. Gabrielle is appalled at the prophecy but Xena sees an opportunity.>> Yeah, that Xena is a smart one, eh? What's interesting is that she knows pronouncements about one's fate can be interpreted and approached in more than one way. I thought that was a nice way to explain how she could talk about destiny on one hand, yet be so sure of mortals' ability to shape it on the other. > > As they leave the temple they are once again attacked by Hades and Athena > (obvious this scene was suppose to precede the Fates scene since X & G are > sporting wounds at the Fate's Temple that are received in this battle - > Gabby > took a little literary license here).>> I wondered about that too, then realized they could've received those wounds in several previous battles, seeing as how Xena almost always gets cut on her arm anyway. > Xena and Gabrielle with Eve are now hiding out with Octavius who is now > their > ally. As Xena treats her and Gabrielle's wounds with a medicine that can > kill > both infection and people (probably iodine?)>> Great set-up for the poison thing later. Reminded me of the duality mentioned about water (soft and raging) and Xena's hair pin (beautiful, but lethal) in Debt, and her massaging of Otere's (?) neck in Sin Trade (both soothing and could kill). > Meanwhile Xena has decided to go the offensive. She confronts Hephestus in > his forge (Hephestus is played by the Young Hercules Hephestus and not the > old Hercules Hephestus for some unknown reason). As she watched Heph at his > anvil she asks if he is the "god of arts and crafts what are his hobbies". > "Trying to kill you so I can kill your daughter" he answers. Xena is not > pleased and snarls back: "no that's a perversion". The two begin to fight - - > a > fight Xena is losing so badly that Celeste appears in order to collect Xena' > s > soul. Just as Heph is about to strike the killing blow Gabrielle whips Heph' > s > hammer out of his hand and beings to fight him. Xena scrambles out of the > way > and using the chains of Hephestus she captures Death. She and Gabrielle > defeat Hephestus and make their escape with the help of Octavius.>> It's clear that Xena knew she had to be hurt pretty badly for Celesta to come. Except for her battles with immortal Callisto and with Najara, I can't remember seeing Xena all bent over and shaky like that. She says something to Celesta about Celesta's taking her sweet time to get there and that she'd have found some other way to get Celesta's attention if she could. I love how Xena straightens up as she's walking out the cave, like "what's a few broken ribs and bruised kidney?" > On a cliff near the sea Xena with Gabrielle writing furiously on her scroll > are being bombarded by Athena, Hades, and Hephestas. >> I initially cracked up at Gabs suddenly being hit by her bardly muse in the middle of a big battle, but at least her scroll was better as a plot device than toilet paper (IMHO, of course). > Xena awakens on the beach. The wagon with Eve in it is in flames, and > Gabrielle lies dead in the sand next to her. As Xena screams out her rage > and > defiance she prepares to fall on her sword but is stopped by Ares. >> For someone who wanted to get rid of Ares, Xena sure knew how to "play" him when it suited her. > In the frantic moments before the wagon was thrown off the cliff Gabrielle > drank the tears and was cradled by Xena as they feel to the sea below. Then > Xena drank the tears. The gods would think them dead and they could live > without fear. Joxer says all went according to plan except that Ares has > taken their bodies.>> Only in the Xenaverse could they fool death so many times, eh? > > In an ice cave Ares gently lays Xena to rest in an ice coffin next to > Gabrielle. Ares now admits that he has handled her all wrong and that > Gabrielle had the true key to her soul - unselfish and undemanding love. > However he still had a piece of her soul. Yes when she was self-sacrificing > she did belong to Gabrielle but when she "kicked ass" she was his. With a > kiss farewell he bids farewell to Xena and leaves her to rest for eternity > with her soulmate - or so he thinks.>> I really liked that touch. Showed the true love Ares had for Xena, even to the point of honoring her love for Gabrielle by burying "the irritating blonde" with Xena. > > Great episode. Theresa Healey played Celeste with compassion, dignity and > with a bit of mystery. This is the goddess who truly empathizes with > mankind > and in the end when she is let go by Xena you are left wondering just how > much > she has guessed about Xena's real plans.>> Yes, I felt that way too. I don't think she realized until near the end, but I wondered why she didn't show after Xena drank the "poison." You'd have thought the other gods might've noticed that too. Paris Jefferson's Athena is no > longer masquerading as the compassionate god she is now as ruthless and > arrogant as her father Zeus.>> She's the head of the clan now, with all the god's fates resting on her shoulders. Her arrogance shows in believing she knows best how to deal with Xena, that Ares is just a nitwit. Kevin Smith is just wonderful in his farewell > scene to Xena - the god is now a man who can see his errors and how he > failed > to win the woman he loved. >> I always admired the way Kevin managed to make Ares "human" in his genuine feelings for Xena the woman, not just Xena the warrior. Lucy was great in her confrontation with Death - > although part of a ploy she brought out the truth behind Xena's words - the > anger that Xena surly has at seeing so many unjust deaths.>> That scene was brilliant. The first time around, I was mystified by the mixed emotions on Xena's face when she said Celesta would be able to feel loss. There was anger at Celesta's taking innocent souls like Solan, yet there was a curious mix of scrutiny and tenderness when Xena stroked Celesta's face. It seemed such an odd gesture for Xena to make. Lucy added a touch of mystery that gave nothing away about Xena's plans. Ted Raimi's old > Joxer is just a wonderful creation - a man who has a family and beloved > children but is still grieving for his friends. Yes, this was one time I couldn't imagine X&G's life being the same without him. Scary as the thought is, if they'd truly been dead, he would've been the one to keep their memory alive. What I liked most about this ep was that it didn't rely on some magical solution that popped up out of nowhere. True, it depended on great stretches of believability in terms of the gods (and the ability to collect tears), but the pieces to Xena's plans were all there for us to connect in the end. The great irony was that Ares' love would end up being the one factor Xena hadn't counted on. I'm sure it never occurred to her that he would honor her in death as he had so mightily resisted when she was alive. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 20:57:54 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:39:09 +1300, cr wrote: >What do Japanese audiences think of Friend in Need? Will it worry them >that Rob Tapert has got some details wrong? (I'm sure he must have - --Not to re-hash an old topic (but why not? ;P ), but when FIN first aired, Katsu and I discussed it on private mail and he agreed with me about the lack of authentic Japanese casting. ;P Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:49:27 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! At 20:57 08/12/2002 -1000, Jackie M. Young wrote: >On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:39:09 +1300, cr wrote: > > >What do Japanese audiences think of Friend in Need? Will it worry them > >that Rob Tapert has got some details wrong? (I'm sure he must have > >--Not to re-hash an old topic (but why not? ;P ), but when FIN first >aired, Katsu and I discussed it on private mail and he agreed with me >about the lack of authentic Japanese casting. ;P I guess that's the same issue as the lack of authentic Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Chinese etc etc casting. And the oddness of polynesian (Maori, Tongan, Samoan etc etc) casting in a Greek story. No wonder they went to India, as the large Indian community in NZ could supply the requisite actors and extras. The only one the New Zealand tv/film industry supplied effortlessly would be briton/celtic, seeing as how there's a bunch here - but only a handful of eps requiring it. Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:52:37 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? On Monday 09 December 2002 12:42, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/8/2002 3:57:50 AM Central Standard Time, > > sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: > > >Yeah, it wasn't just the beating, it's the way she grovelled to Gurkhan. > > > > I > > > > >just *cannot* see Xena ever doing that, whatever the circumstances. > > > > It was the MISSION, you doofuses (doofi?) (Sorry, just needed to use the > > word doofi in a sentence). Xena would doing anything (including Mark > > Antony) to complete the MISSION. She has no pride - which I'm guessing a > > successful assassin cannot afford. She sneers at Virgil in the slave > > selling scenes - but only when the slaver can't see her ... well not her > > face anyway. > > I gotta agree with you (except for the doofi part ). This is the woman > who pranced around as Autolycus' concubine "Cherish" and never hesitated to > use her body as a weapon of seduction. It took me awhile to realize that I > had more concern about Xena's pride and reputation than Xenastaff did. I > often flinched at Lucy's "unXenalike" expressions and mannerisms, or at > some of the unseemly situations they put Xena in. But the character, as > you say, was who she was because of her focus on her "mission" and > willingness to do whatever it took, in circumstances anybody else would > avoid. Whatever pride she had was in succeeding, in doing that as > honorably as she could -- without worrying about how silly, stupid, > servile, unattractive, incompetent, impolite, or "cold" she seemed. > > -- Ife The big difference was, that in Royal Couple of Thieves, she and Auto were having a battle of wits, and she gave as good as she got. If you recall, she was hardly submissive in the part of Cherish. And also, of course, Xena had caused the whole situation to come about, so one could say that Auto was entitled to a small revenge. In Gurkhan, OTOH, Xena had just been beaten half to death by Gurkhan. That's what really grated with me. In fact, her grovelling was so out of character I was amazed Gurkhan could believe it, coming from anybody. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:26:42 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Who's Gurkhan? On Sunday 08 December 2002 22:57, Sojourner wrote: > At 18:51 08/12/2002 +1300, cr wrote: > >On Sunday 08 December 2002 15:05, KTL wrote: > > > > I somehow don't think you'll ever be getting KT to agree if you've > > > > got Gurkhan or WFC in the list ;) > > > > > > Actually, I blow hot and cold on Gurkhan. At first I didn't like it > > > very much, but on second viewing I did. But now as I look at the lists, > > > there's many more in my mind that were much better. > > > > > > I HATE the beating Xena takes in that ep--and the humiliation she has > > > to put up with as she's scamming Gurkhan. Its terrible to see her pain > > > and suffering, the dripping blood from her numerous wounds spattering > > > the floor as she has to stay conscious and flatter Gurkhan into not > > > ordering her killed for "bringing" a knife into his palace. Blech. > > > >Yeah, it wasn't just the beating, it's the way she grovelled to Gurkhan. > > I just *cannot* see Xena ever doing that, whatever the circumstances. > > It was the MISSION, you doofuses (doofi?) (Sorry, just needed to use the > word doofi in a sentence). Xena would doing anything (including Mark > Antony) to complete the MISSION. She has no pride - which I'm guessing a > successful assassin cannot afford. Well, if it hadn't been for Gabby's intervention (but whe've been through that before ;) she wouldn't have been in that position. She woulda killed Gurky and got away unharmed and un-humiliated. So the issue of her pride (or dignity, or self-respect, or whatever you want to call it) would not have arisen. Whatever the reason, I find that one of the most ucky moments in the whole of XWP. cr ... doofi ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:48:44 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers On Monday 09 December 2002 12:42, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/8/2002 3:39:45 AM Central Standard Time, > > sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: > > But having just rewatched ADITL my gf said - and I heartily agreed - that > > it is one of a small number of episodes where Lucy/Xena is absolutely > > luminous. The other for me was Maternal Instinct. Something about the > > lighting or the weather or the make-up? Or some inner cause? I mean, > > she's gorgeous and striking in most episodes - but luminous? I'm not even > > sure what I mean - but there ya go. Another XWP fan locked into > > inarticulateness by the gaze of the goddess.....>> > > LOL! I know what she means. I've always thought the acting by nearly > everyone in MI was particularly good. Despite the Dahok crap, I was > mesmerized by the interaction between X&G during this unexpected, ambiguous > challenge to their relationship. But more than that, I thought Lucy hit > her stride in season three -- physically, mentally, emotionally, > professionally. But it looks like the staff also figured out what to do > with her hair, make-up and the lighting, to help give her that "luminous" > look. I see it in Deliverer and Gabrielle's Hope, as well. I *love* that episode. It absolutely rocks! But then, with Xena *and* Callisto in it, what else would one expect? I especially liked the confrontation between the two in the village after Solan was killed. Callisto looked almost angelic, with the sun shining through her hair (back-lit, IIRC), while I have never seen Xena look so implacable - like the face of Death itself. What a marvellous visual contrast. All kudos to the producer. (And of course, Hudson and LL). > > >Uber: Xena Scrolls (snip) > > It took me awhile to like Xena Scrolls. Now, I love the way they took a > chance with their hero, by making the kick-butt Xena's descendent Mel into > a southern belle and focusing attention on Janice. Mind you, this was > after I started taking Gabrielle more seriously, especially during season > 3. It would be on my top 10 for its freshness alone, but it's not one of > the eps I'd die if I couldn't see again. > > -- Ife It took me a while too. I was rather disconcerted by the Uber (I think XS was their first Uber?). But now I like the ep. Ares is good in it, too. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:55:10 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style On Monday 09 December 2002 13:25, Jackie M. Young wrote: > On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:29:07 -0900 (AKST), KTL > > wrote: > >Even after I explained that it is against Alaska State Law for a resident > >of the state to admit that anyplace in the world might be prettier than > >Alaska--they take away your residency if they find out that you've done > > --*No comment*, since the tourism destination *facts* show Hawai'i has you > guys beat.....;P LOL > Yep, the most scenic thing being a whacking great volcano that will one day erupt for real and - bye bye Hawaii. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:49:18 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 09 December 2002 19:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/8/2002 4:33:14 PM Central Standard Time, > > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > > The story opens in the future Joxer is an old middle aged man drinking > > in a tavern when he hears that a peddle has a scroll for sale. Not any > > scroll but > > the last scroll of the Bard of Potedia (note to gabscoffers - see she's > > famous > > and well-known as an author). >> > > LOL! Save your breath. Given who was bidding on the scroll, SOMEONE will > probably scoff at the taste of those who wanted to read it. 'SOMEONE' ? Not an oblique reference to me, by any chance? Actually, I never thought of that. I just figured maybe the Gabscrolls had 'cult' status.... the same way the Xena videos at our best local video hire store are listed in the 'cult' section.... > It's clear that Xena knew she had to be hurt pretty badly for Celesta to > come. Except for her battles with immortal Callisto and with Najara, I > can't remember seeing Xena all bent over and shaky like that. She says > something to Celesta about Celesta's taking her sweet time to get there and > that she'd have found some other way to get Celesta's attention if she > could. I love how Xena straightens up as she's walking out the cave, like > "what's a few broken ribs and bruised kidney?" I did like that "You took your time" line.... it sounded genuine. And funny. But the incident shows just how determined a character Xena is, and what she's prepared to go through to accomplish her aims. There's a minor parallel with that other very determined character, Callisto, who taunted the guard into beating her up (at the start of Return of Callisto) just so she could lift his dagger and make her escape. > > Great episode. Theresa Healey played Celeste with compassion, dignity > > and with a bit of mystery. This is the goddess who truly empathizes with > > mankind > > and in the end when she is let go by Xena you are left wondering just > > how much > > she has guessed about Xena's real plans.>> > > Yes, I felt that way too. I don't think she realized until near the end, > but I wondered why she didn't show after Xena drank the "poison." You'd > have thought the other gods might've noticed that too. That is a minor YAXI, I think. Though, Celeste's appearances seem to be erratic, to say the least.... most deaths on Herc or Xena don't seem to invoke her attendance. > What I liked most about this ep was that it didn't rely on some magical > solution that popped up out of nowhere. True, it depended on great > stretches of believability in terms of the gods (and the ability to collect > tears), but the pieces to Xena's plans were all there for us to connect in > the end. The great irony was that Ares' love would end up being the one > factor Xena hadn't counted on. I'm sure it never occurred to her that he > would honor her in death as he had so mightily resisted when she was alive. > > -- Ife Was that, maybe, the biggest (and most marvellous) bit of irony in the whole series? I can't think of any greater one. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:57:29 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 09 December 2002 11:32, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > > This episode has no right to be as good as it is. It should be just a > simple gimmicky episode to drop Xena and Gabrielle in the deep freeze for > 25 years and to get Eve grown up. Instead we have a fine action packed > adventure and wonderful performances by LL, KS, Paris Jefferson and > astonishingly enough by Ted Raimi. > > The story opens in the future Joxer is an old middle aged man drinking in a > tavern when he hears that a peddle has a scroll for sale. Not any scroll > but the last scroll of the Bard of Potedia (note to gabscoffers - see she's > famous and well-known as an author). Errrm..... or maybe, a 'cult' author? > Joxer spends all his wife's (Meg) > money on the scroll. In the barn with his children he reads the scroll. > > Xena is fed up with being chased by all the gods in Olympus and goes to see > the Fates for a few answers. The Fates inform her that only after Xena has > tasted the "essence of death" can the twilight begin and Eve be free from > the gods. Gabrielle is appalled at the prophecy but Xena sees an > opportunity. > > As they leave the temple they are once again attacked by Hades and Athena > (obvious this scene was suppose to precede the Fates scene since X & G are > sporting wounds at the Fate's Temple that are received in this battle - > Gabby took a little literary license here). Umm, I'm afraid I still think it must be a YAXI. I've tried using the same 'Uber'-type explanation for the bizarrely wrong placenames in OAAA - viz, that Gabby was so zonked on arrow poison she got all the geography completely scrambled - but I'm afraid I can't really accept it. This is most unfortunate since it's the *only* 'explanation' I can invent for the YAXIs in that ep, and I don't believe it. The reason I can't accept the 'Gabby wrote it' type of explanation is, that IMO what we see on screen doesn't come from Gabby's scrolls, but from the usual conventional 'eye of God' view. And the reason I think this, is that many of the events we see couldn't be known to Gabby, either at the time or later. > On Olympus Athena and Ares are having a very unfriendly chat. Athena is > recounting Ares short-comings. He killed Eli who was loved by the people > this resulted in a revolt against the god - a revolt that Xena used to her > advantaged in Amphipolis. With each accusation Athena advances on Ares > lounging on her throne. Finally she come nose to nose with him violating > his very personal space and snarls at him - a revolt in in which Ares took > Xena's side. Ares is in a very vulnerable position but luckily Hades > interrupts with the bad news - his sister has been captured by Xena. I thought Ares was still being just slightly contemptuous of Athena, even when she was leaning over him. After all, what was she going to do to him? > In an ice cave Ares gently lays Xena to rest in an ice coffin next to > Gabrielle. Ares now admits that he has handled her all wrong and that > Gabrielle had the true key to her soul - unselfish and undemanding love. > However he still had a piece of her soul. Yes when she was > self-sacrificing she did belong to Gabrielle but when she "kicked ass" she > was his. With a kiss farewell he bids farewell to Xena and leaves her to > rest for eternity with her soulmate - or so he thinks. That was marvellous film-making. Ares was being truly a considerate, deeply respectful person in that scene. And of course, the marvellous irony was that, entirely due to his consideration and respect, he screwed Xena's plan completely. > > Great episode. Theresa Healey played Celeste with compassion, dignity and > with a bit of mystery. This is the goddess who truly empathizes with > mankind and in the end when she is let go by Xena you are left wondering > just how much she has guessed about Xena's real plans. Paris Jefferson's > Athena is no longer masquerading as the compassionate god she is now as > ruthless and arrogant as her father Zeus. Kevin Smith is just wonderful in > his farewell scene to Xena - the god is now a man who can see his errors > and how he failed to win the woman he loved. Lucy was great in her > confrontation with Death - although part of a ploy she brought out the > truth behind Xena's words - the anger that Xena surly has at seeing so many > unjust deaths. Ted Raimi's old Joxer is just a wonderful creation - a man > who has a family and beloved children but is still grieving for his > friends. One note to cr see Gabrielle follows orders very well, saves Xena > in the neck of time, and is a famous bard - what more could we want in an > episode. Yes, I accept that in this one, Gabrielle did all that was asked of her. She couldn't have done better. Though you will note my little reservation about 'famous bard'. How about 'biographer'? ;) Since most of the references to her literary works seem to emphasise their subject - Xena - rather than the literary merits of the works themselves. (That's just my impression - I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll correct me if I am :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:05:32 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] XWP come to Japan finally Wow YI-YI-YI! On Monday 09 December 2002 19:57, Jackie M. Young wrote: > On Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:39:09 +1300, cr wrote: > >What do Japanese audiences think of Friend in Need? Will it worry them > >that Rob Tapert has got some details wrong? (I'm sure he must have > > --Not to re-hash an old topic (but why not? ;P ), but when FIN first > aired, Katsu and I discussed it on private mail and he agreed with me > about the lack of authentic Japanese casting. ;P > > > Just FYI, > --Jackie Well, one could ask, since it will apparently be seen by very few people in Japan, does the casting really matter? As Sojourner noted, most other ethnic types in the series were non-authentic too, including most notably Greeks and Romans, but also Arabs of all kinds.... But I was more interested in the depiction of Japanese characters and culture in the episode, and whether this is seen by Japanese viewers to be a major defect, or whether they're resigned to being inaccurately depicted in foreign films just as, say, I'm accustomed to the 'Hollywood' view of England..... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 00:50:36 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Ten List > Lordy, it was hard eliminating eps. I thought some were excellent for one > reason, but that others were equally excellent for other reasons. Some were > standalone gems, while others were critical to the series. I did settle on a > few key criteria (which, interestingly, did not include plot): LOL! Hey--this is a T&A action adventure show. Who needs plot? > *Drama/emotional pull > *Acting > *Ambition (e.g., visuals, overall complexity) > *Essence of why I watched XWP (e.g., "heart, "philosophical issues, > fun, Xena's quest) > > In the end, I imagined the horror of losing all but a couple handfuls of eps > and asked myself which ones I'd most want to keep for myself ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!!!! Oh gods--wash your mouth out with soap, young lady! Now you've got me thinking I should go rent a safety deposit box... Damn--but that thought does indeed focus the mind and heighten the intensity of the 10 faves quest. Hmmm, yeah, I think I'll take that into account for my final winnowing. and to show > someone else a representative sampling of why I loved the show so much. Hmmm. But you know--that's a slightly different list for me. I mean I think that Ides is fantastic but if you don't know what Callisto and Caesar's history with Xena is I think surely it can't be quite so fine an ep without having that background. I use A Day In The Life for easing folks into the series. And I'd show them the Debt too. I > lumped comedies and ubers in with the rest. Here's what I came up with, > along with acceptable alternatives: > > 1. The Debt I&2 (S3) > 2. Sins of the Past (S1) > 3. Ides of March (S4) > 4. Adventures in the Sin Trade 1&2 (S4) > 5. Been There, Done That (S3) > 6. A Day in the Life (S2) > 7. The Price (S2) or Crusader (S4) > 8. A Friend in Need 1&2 (S6) > 9. Between The Lines or The Way (S4) > 10. Callisto (S1) > I like your choices mostly. But why Callisto? Did someone already say that Return of Callisto is preferable to them? It is for me because of Xena watching Callisto die. That ep and the Price were the first ones to begin to foreshadow the depth of Xena's story which we were going to start seeing from season three on. So what it is about Callisto that makes it a "must-have" to you? I'm guessing something but I'm waiting for your answer. > > I hated leaving out any of the season 3 "rift" eps, because I think they had > some of the best acting and dramatic tension. Yes--that was the most amazing thing to me, how XWP leapt into suddenly being "art" that year as opposed to just being a damn fine, good, well worth watching show. KT > Still, if I had to survive on any eps, they'd be the ones on my > list. > > -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:07:26 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Comedies and Ubers > I have just watched ADITL and remembered why I loved it snip > But having just rewatched ADITL my gf said - and I heartily agreed - that > it is one of a small number of episodes where Lucy/Xena is absolutely > luminous. The other for me was Maternal Instinct. Something about the > lighting or the weather or the make-up? Or some inner cause? I mean, she's > gorgeous and striking in most episodes - but luminous? I'm not even sure > what I mean - but there ya go. Another XWP fan locked into inarticulateness > by the gaze of the goddess..... > GRIN. You know, I think that's true. But I think that in season four, Lucy looked even better. In Adventures in the Sin Trade, I think of her pulling away from Borias in the yurt and dropping her head back, post orgasmic and she's just absolutely transcendent, almost lit from within or something. She's golden in the light of the fire as it plays upon the planes of her face. It's just amazing how good she looks. At about this time, she did that TV guide cover with Jeri Ryan and ET did a spot on it. And again, she was almost mesmerizing in her beauty. I taped it and I must have replayed that spot dozens of times over the next few weeks just staring in awe at the screen. How could anyone be so physically perfect? (And f course, then she told us later that it was like the unhappiest time of her life.) Hmmm. Suffering becomes her? > > > >Uber: Xena Scrolls > > I'm glad you picked Xena Scrolls - I really like that ep - particularly the > Uber-G Janice. Tough short women rock!!! Yes they do. When I was reading the spoilers > for the ep (weeks before it turned up on NZ tv) I really could not > understand the whole concept of uber. The reviews and comments made no > sense whatsoever. And Lucy's entrance as Mel didn't help either. But Renee > as Janice as the camera panned upped her body (ala Xena in ... um.... gee > is the Black Wolf??) just made the concept of uber completely clear. And > launched an entire genre of fan-fic. Yup. And what cracks me up about the whole uber fan-fic thing is that it all comes to us from a Joxer's descendent's scroll. The story in the Xena Scrolls is not from a Gabrielle scroll. Either Jacques Sur wrote it or his modern day descendent who claimed he found it wrote it. Or perhaps either one of them wrote all the scrolls that the stories came from. At any rate, that's why it's never bothered me that we never saw how Ares got locked in that tomb with Xena's broken chakram and Xena's spirit on guard. Xena Scrolls is not necessarily a canon ep, since it's not from a Gab scroll. Perhaps I should suggest to all those uber writers that they call themselves Joxer's Girls. I'm sure they'd LOVE that. KT > > Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 01:18:27 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Top Tens Revisited 2002-style Liz's uber list: > > Uber: Xena Scrolls, Deja Vu All Over Again, Send in the Clones, Soul > > Possession, When Fates Collide > >You left out Fishsticks intentionally, yes?--didn't make your cut, I > >would venture to say. > > Not an XWP episode. > SNORT! Funny. But Fish is just as much an ep as any of the other ubers. Although I think it is the only one without Xena in the Uber world. C'mon--we gotta give 'em credit for never being afraid to stretch the envelope. Even when they shred it. > > > >Tch. I still have to think this over. Once I know what the criteria for > >judging ubers is. > > You figure out the criteria and let us know..... > TCH! No--YOU selected ubers as a separate category. You think I don't know what you're doing? You just wanted to be able to pick TWELVE eps for your best ten list. So you made these other categories. Separating the comedies and the dramas does make sense though. Again, PacRen was just so good at both. > > > >ACK! Hey--Femmes and Gems is pretty funny too--how come that didn't make > >my comedy list? Because we're looking for the BEST, that's right. > > Oh come on - Joxer sequence with the animals? and the pink nightie?? > Ick-a-rooni. However - Gabby launching into her possible titles while lying > dazed on the ground.... > Gabrielle and the Four Seasons, yes VERY funny. Xena's fishing frenzy--"Fish don't just catch themselves, you know!" Her pouting to get what she wants from Gab. And the lovely morph into young Xena with Lyceus. Aphrodite's temple and the her reaction to the "stuff" people bring her. There's some good stuff in there! KT > > Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #334 **************************************