From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #331 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, December 7 2002 Volume 02 : Number 331 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Tens Revisited 2002-style [cr > [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Chariot Queen -- TLC tonite [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:54:52 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 06 December 2002 04:18, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:07:46 +1300 cr wrote: > > CherylA wrote: > "Gabrielle is for once the one whose judgment is to be trusted - watch how > Cleopatra's handmaiden, Shiana, turns to Gabrielle to confirm Xena's > orders. Gabrielle is now the one to be trusted while Xena is apparently > spinning out of control." > > > cr wrote: > "And (IMO) Xena was certainly not 'out of > control', she had some problems with > her feelings for Mark Anthony but nothing she > couldn't handle." > > I think I didn't make myself clear. I think in Shiana eyes Xena is out of > control or being seduced by Antony. Watch her in the scene she isn't happy > and worried. When she brings Xena the flower that Antony sends with the > message he wants to meet Cleopatra that night Xena says to tell him yes but > Shiana looks to Gabrielle for confirmation and Gabby nods behind Xena's > back. Shiana as a bystander is none too sure of Xena and consequently I > believe the audience is being told that all is not well with the plan or > Xena." Okay, yes, that's clearer. I agree that Shiana was uneasy about Anthony's influence on Xena, and in fact I've speculated in the past that if Xena had 'sold out' to Anthony (and it had appeared that Anthony was the murderer) then Xena might have found an asp in her bed one night. In respect of the incident you mention, I prefer to think that Shiana was implicitly asking Gabs' opinion as one who knew Xena well. In other words, not "Is the plan all right?" but "Is Xena all right?" Just IMO. > "Hmmm. More ambiguous than 'When in Rome'? > Or 'Legacy'? Or 'Motherhood' or half-a-dozen other eps that I could > name. Darker than > 'Destiny' or 'Maternal Instincts'? If A&C is > dark, it certainly is in good company :)" > > Yes darker than WIR or even Legacy. Darker because Xena is acting as the > betrayer of man who is not evil - a man who is certainly ruthless but is > honest and even honorable in his own way. Xena in her own way has always > been honoable and honest in her actions - here she is not - Didn't we just have this argument about her treatment of Ares in Amphipolis Under Siege? ;) Admittedly, Ares didn't suffer quite such a drastic fate as Anthony, but there's a distinct parallel there. Though like all parallels, it shouldn't be taken too far. > she knows it > and it haunts her. She destroys a man she likes and may even love for very > tenuous greater good. Crassues is a liar and murder and deserving of is > end. In Legacy Xena is still a hero who defeats Rome and saves the > Bedouines despite her feelings about them. Gabrielle kills in other > episodes but here when she kills Brutus there is a rage and even a sense of > satifaction that we have never seen before. Gabrielle's action smacks a > bit of vengence which is very unusual for her up to this point. Yes, okay. I wouldn't argue the toss between those eps, I was just pointing out that A&C has quite a lot of company. ;) > "Chianna was also excellent. Oops! Chianna is the flaky grey girl with the Tina Turner hair from 'Farscape'. I shoulda said Shiana, of course. > She didn't say > very much, but she was always there in the background, watching. I > think she was intensely loyal to her dead mistress and determined that her > killer should be punished. My impression is that she, as Cleo's > right-hand man (oops, woman :) probably used to run the palace, and was > continuing to do so. I think she had discussed the plan with Xena, and > certainly someone would have been needed to > liaise between Xena and the Egyptian authorities. (And her presence with > Octavius on the Egyptian flagship seems to support that). My memory of > her is of her eyes, always watchful." > > Oh I agree Shiana is a wonderful character. She is certainly in on the > plan and she was Cleopatra's most trusted and devoted adviser. I think > however she was closer to Gabrielle and trusted her more than Xena probably > because they have very similar backgrounds both are companions to very > powerful but unpredictable women. I'm sure she sees Gabrielle as the woman > who takes care of the pesky details in Xena's life as took care of them in > Cleopatra's life. > You would! ;) > CherylA cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:11:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Top Tens Revisited 2002-style On Friday 06 December 2002 09:08, Sojourner wrote: (Big snippos) > > Here's my first cut - what do you think? > > > 1 The Debt (2 parts) > 2 The Bitter Suite > 3 Who's Gurkhan > 4 Adventures in the Sin Trade (2 parts) > 5 The Ring (3 parts) > 6 Friend in Need (2 parts) > 7 Fallen Angel > 8 A Day in the Life > 9 You Are There > 10 Return of Callisto > > > Comedy: > Contenders - Many Happy Returns, You Are There, Old Ares Had a Farm, Lyre > Lyre, A Tale of Two Muses, The Quill is Mightier, A Day in the Life, Been > There Done That > My Pick - A Day in the Life > > Uber: Xena Scrolls, Deja Vu All Over Again, Send in the Clones, Soul > Possession, When Fates Collide > My Pick - When Fates Collide > > > So KT - and everyone - can we agree? I somehow don't think you'll ever be getting KT to agree if you've got Gurkhan or WFC in the list ;) And as for the rest of the inhabitants of this list.... Hellooo - we're Xenafans here, you know. We can't agree what day it is. :) cr ... much amused. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:42:47 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 06 December 2002 00:49, KTL wrote: > > > IfeRae wrote: > > As for "Fishsticks," I could overlook the fact that I didn't see much of > > Lucy > > Actually, that was the only good thing about it to me when I first saw > it--I was so pleased for Luce that she didn't have to have any part in > that drivel other than to bookend it in the present world. Yes! > Of course, HAD she been in it, it probably would have been better. I've > often seen Lucy make gold out of garbage on that show. And no. Not even Lucy could have salvaged that - ummm, description deleted. ;) > > when I think of it as a > > standalone in the context of XWP's campiness, I do think it represents > > the risks the show was always willing to take. > > > > -- Ife > > Yes--for this alone, I think it deserves being put on the shelf with the > other eps. (Although I remember holding it VERY CAREFULLY by one little > corner, touching it as little as possible when I put up there.) I, too, have it on tape. But it's only due to my obsession with completeness..... > But true--MWF WAS a big risk and it was wildly creative and certainly > fits the mold of some of PacRen's "other worlds" comedies--like the Herc > ones that parodied the PacRen staff as they tried to make the show, and > Shoe, with the fairy tale telling with personal twists. (If not > for MWF, Shoe might well be my least favorite non Lucy-lite ep.) Really? I thought ITSF was great. Hilarious, especially the way the fairy tale got slanted by whoever was telling it. > My problem with MWF was that it just wasn't funny to me. It was a pure > Joxer mentality/comedy outlook showcase and I LOATH Joxer and his ways. Much though I don't care for Joxer, I don't really think he was into LSD, PCP and the rest of the alphabet soup.... so I don't know that we can really say that MWF was typical of him. (Actually, now I recall, Gabrielle was most often the one to ingest illegal or at least questionable substances.... maybe she was just having a flashback. Whatever caused it, it sure was a bad trip, anyway). > > Then Ife wrote, in response to Cleanthes' post (And I KNEW that was > Cleanthes writing that from the very first sentence...;-> ) So you reckon you can spot Cleanthes quicker than me? OK, I'll take up your challenge. We'll have a Cleanthes-spotting duel. I guess we'll have to become Cleanthes stalkers. ;) > I remember a few fans getting all huffy over this one because it wasn't > "sensitive" to Gabrielle's pain over Hope. (You remember Hope--the entity > who brought so much horror into X&G's lives that Gab tried to kill her > twice. "AND her little fetus too!", to paraphrase a line from Oz.) > > These fans thought it was way cruel to portray Gabrielle as the mother of > monsters after her angst over Hope. Probably the same ones who thought it was grossly insensitive for Xena to tow Crassus around on the end of a rope so soon after the Gabdrag.... one can read too much into things. :) > I have to admit that I did find something worthwhile on my short sojourn > into Fishsticks again--Alexandra Tidings was VERY good. She had the NY > accent down just right. And not only the accent, but also the mannerisms > and the...timing. She was REAL. (Better than Lucy in Grease, I think.) It > was the only good thing I got out of watching it again though. I thought Meighan Desmond was very good too. On my one and only viewing of the ep..... > > It shall certainly never darken my VCR ever again. > > KT > Who can't believe that my first post in weeks is about Fishsticks...ACK! So, whose fault is *that*? :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 22:10:28 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Chariot Queen -- TLC tonite I just watched an episode of the archeological program Meet the Ancestors on TLC, titled Chariot Queen. It is about the discovery in England of an Iron Age grave containing a woman buried with a disassembled chariot. Most of the program is not about the ancient woman, of whom nothing much is known, but about the efforts of enthusiasts to reconstruct the chariot. They split logs, worked wood, made wooden wheels and an iron wheel rim with ancient tools. The chariot was held together with rawhide thongs. They even painted it with natural paints. They made the harness and trained two small but strong horses, the right size for the period. They still don't know if the woman was a queen, a warrior or a priestess. But the reconstructed chariot worked fine. It had excellent suspension and worked at high speed over rough ground and they found it was possible to throw spears accurately from it, at close range. It was a good program. It will be repeated at 11:00 (Central) tonight on TLC. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #331 **************************************