From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #330 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 02 : Number 330 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Karl Urban (from NewXenaland list) ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Sojourner > [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [KTL > [] [chakram-refugees] Top Tens Revisited 2002-style [Sojourner Subject: [chakram-refugees] Karl Urban (from NewXenaland list) Thought some of you might find this of interest. TEXena, who is greatly enjoying the recapitulations P.S.: Oh, and 2 or 3 weeks ago Tony Todd (Cecrops in 'Lost Mariner') guest-starred on ANDROMEDA. Am eagerly awaiting another visit from Michael Hurst. ____________________ The article referred to below is on Karl Urban and mainly about his role in LOTR with a brief passing mention of XWP & Herc. Full text of the article is in today's NZ Herald at the link provided. Carolyn S http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/entertainmentstorydisplay.cfm?storyI D=3006928&thesection=entertainment&thesubsection=film&thesecondsubsection=ge neral ___________________ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 22:40:56 -0800 From: "JoAnn Walker" Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Price of Milk The Price of Milk starring Danielle Cormack, Karl Urban and Willa O'Neil will be airing on the Sundance channel 12/5 at 2:05pm and again on 12/6 at 1:00am but that is my cable listing. It's like an Oxygen channel thing. It's an off the wall channel under the direction of Robert Redford that not many cable providers pick up. joann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:39:00 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Most every thing snipped because this is not a discursive post Cheryl - I have been reading your analyses for a while now and this is among the best - perceptive and beautifully written. Congratulations. Sojourner At 19:26 04/12/2002 -0500, Cheryl Ande wrote: ># ># ># ># >## ># ># >This is one of my favorite episode for the simple reason that it shows very >different sides of Xena and Gabrielle. Xena, I think for the only time in the >series, is more woman than warrior. As for Gabrielle we see not only her >level-headed best but also the darkness that the crucifixion caused in her. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:41:51 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 12/4/2002 6:27:30 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: @ @ @ @ @ @ @ > That Xena is smitten by Antony is no surprised. As played by Jon Bennett, > Antony is charming. He doesn't fall for Xena's obvious seductive plans - he > beholds a naked Xena with bemused suspicion . He is a ruthless warrior yet > he > can a poetic and tender lover. There is a wonderful moment when Xena has > just > captured young Octavius and has stopped Antony from killing him. Antony > ,instead being upset gently kisses Xena check, at that moment Xena is a > gonner. Xena is fascinated by Antony because he surprises her at every turn > he > won't be seduced by sex but will love the woman. Antony is an odd mixture > of > innocence and ruthlessness, poet and warrior, handsome but with the scars of > battle on him. He is almost Xena's perfect match. > Antony was the only one of Xena's suitors (well, except for Ares) that I could see as a worthy challenge. I agree that Bennet played the part to perfection. Indeed, the main problem I had was that, unlike the Xena of "Destiny," Xena seemed so much more mature that she almost came off as his mother. Still, I felt a poignancy precisely because she hadn't met him (instead of Caesar) 10 winters ago. And, yes, it was delicious seeing the intrigued look (which Lucy also played to perfection) on Xena's face when she was in her bath and said she didn't know that he wouldn't accept her offer. Heh. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:55:56 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 05 December 2002 03:58, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:41:32 +1300 cr wrote: > > > "Maybe I'm antisocial, but I thought that was > absolutely in character for Xena and I totally sympathise with how she > felt. For starters, there was nothing for her to do there. She had no > function. I'd say, Xena had to be either > top dog, or doing her own thing. And in an > Amazon tribe at peace, there was just nothing for her to do." > > Well frankly the Amazons would have gotten on my nerves too (I actually > work in an equivalent of a bureaucratic Amazon village and they do get on > my nerves. I also think the Amazons got on Gabby's nerves too my episodes > end. However if they are somewhere that is safe for Eve why not stay there. > If not in the village then somewhere else - I'm sure Xena could scare up a > few bad guys to fight. On the other hand she could have trained the > Amazons to at least put out perimeter guards so strangers can't sneak up on > them while they are bathing (apparently no Amazon tribes ever have guards > around the village ie To Helicon and Necessary Evil). > CherylA Hmm, good point. And I thought they were supposed to be formidable fighters (as stated in e.g. Dangerous Prey). But I still don't think Xena would have found it very fulfilling training Amazons.... she would have got bored very quickly. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:07:46 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 05 December 2002 13:26, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > ## > # > # > This is one of my favorite episode for the simple reason that it shows very > different sides of Xena and Gabrielle. Xena, I think for the only time in > the series, is more woman than warrior. As for Gabrielle we see not only > her level-headed best but also the darkness that the crucifixion caused in > her. > (snips) > > Gabrielle in this episode is also is portrayed in a very different light. > Here she is the cool rational partner. As Eris (same name as Xena's > wannabe sidekick in Kindred Spirits) she is masquerading as "Cleopatra's" > companion. Gabrielle has no illusions about her partner's attraction to bad > boys. Indeed you can see Gabrielle's mouth drop open when she first sees > Antony - she knows that he is trouble. As Xena becomes more and more > infatuated with Antony it is Gabrielle who tries to pull Xena back. She > continually reminds Xena of the plan - even interrupting Antony's and > Xena's seductive feast. Gabrielle is for once the one whose judgment is to > be trusted - watch how Cleopatra's handmaiden, Shiana, turns to Gabrielle > to confirm Xena's orders. Gabrielle is now the one to be trusted while > Xena is apparently spinning out of control. I thought there was a distinct tinge of jealousy about Gabrielle, actually. And Xena thought so too - "Ahh, my advisers. They're such _busybodies_." And (IMO) Xena was certainly not 'out of control', she had some problems with her feelings for Mark Anthony but nothing she couldn't handle. > This is perhaps the darkest and most morally ambiguous episodes of the > series. Xena betrays a man who although certainly no saint is in his own > way an honest man - a man who sincerely loves and respects her. Gabrielle > kills certainly in self-defense but also in rage and revenge. Finally they > do all this to secure Octavius's assent to Rome's throne who although an > idealist also has his uncle's disturbing belief in his own destiny to rule. > In the end the best that Xena can hopeful is that Egypt will remain free > as Cleopatra wished. Hmmm. More ambiguous than 'When in Rome'? Or 'Legacy'? Or 'Motherhood' or half-a-dozen other eps that I could name. Darker than 'Destiny' or 'Maternal Instincts'? If A&C is dark, it certainly is in good company :) > The episode was directed by Michael Hurst. He made some wonderful choices > here. Everything is brightly lit as if in the glow Egypt's bright desert > sun. Xena and Gabrielle are dressed in the purest white - they are > beautiful and seductive in their sheer linens. Yet all this light and > beauty deceives. The beauty is there only to deceive and the light only > obscures the darkness of the tale. > I thought the early part of the episode, set in Cleopatra's palace, was marvellously 'atmospheric'. The place (and the pace) seemed cool and unhurried, yet there was always a hint of something 'going on' behind the scenes. Partly this was due to the palace ladies hovering in the background, quietly exchanging words with each other. Marvellous scene-setting by Michael Hurst. Chianna was also excellent. She didn't say very much, but she was always there in the background, watching. I think she was intensely loyal to her dead mistress and determined that her killer should be punished. My impression is that she, as Cleo's right-hand man (oops, woman :) probably used to run the palace, and was continuing to do so. I think she had discussed the plan with Xena, and certainly someone would have been needed to liaise between Xena and the Egyptian authorities. (And her presence with Octavius on the Egyptian flagship seems to support that). My memory of her is of her eyes, always watchful. > Now the episode is not with out it detractors. Some people complained > about Jon Bennet's accent I however can't see why an Australian accent > should bother anyone when our Greek heroines have American accents. That was me ;) For some reason, though I find American, British and Kiwi accents unobtrusive (so long as they're not too strong), I find Australian accents incongruous and hence disconcerting. I don't really know why that is. I think more detractors, though, came from those who didn't like to see anyone coming between Xena and Gabby. > History is also mangled very badly here and although many find this a real > problem I just take it as the Xenaverse take on Cleopatra. I personally > have a problem with the use of Natalie Merchant's Carnival in the feasting > scene - I think it is out of place and sort of a MTV moment. I understand > it was used as background just for editing purposes but that TPTB liked it > so it stayed. Although I have grown accustomed to it I still think it is > an annoying anachronism. Agreed, entirely. In fact, for the rest of the scenes in the palace, LoDuca's background is a soft laid-back twangy guitar track that fits the atmosphere perfectly. Cool, but also ominous. And 'Carnival' clashes with that. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:09:29 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thursday 05 December 2002 20:41, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/4/2002 6:27:30 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > > Antony was the only one of Xena's suitors (well, except for Ares) that I > could see as a worthy challenge. I agree that Bennet played the part to > perfection. Indeed, the main problem I had was that, unlike the Xena of > "Destiny," Xena seemed so much more mature that she almost came off as his > mother. Still, I felt a poignancy precisely because she hadn't met him > (instead of Caesar) 10 winters ago. And, yes, it was delicious seeing the > intrigued look (which Lucy also played to perfection) on Xena's face when > she was in her bath and said she didn't know that he wouldn't accept her > offer. Heh. > > -- Ife I think she was also teasing Gabrielle about that. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 02:49:40 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> IfeRae wrote: > > As for "Fishsticks," I could overlook the fact that I didn't see much of Lucy Actually, that was the only good thing about it to me when I first saw it--I was so pleased for Luce that she didn't have to have any part in that drivel other than to bookend it in the present world. Of course, HAD she been in it, it probably would have been better. I've often seen Lucy make gold out of garbage on that show. > when I think of it as a > standalone in the context of XWP's campiness, I do think it represents the > risks the show was always willing to take. > > -- Ife Yes--for this alone, I think it deserves being put on the shelf with the other eps. (Although I remember holding it VERY CAREFULLY by one little corner, touching it as little as possible when I put up there.) Then Cheryl LaScola wrote: "I guess if FIN is an example of the dramatic risk taking, MWF is certainly the other end of the spectrum in a comedic sense." Actually, I would prefer to put "You Are There" as the comedic risk taking at the other end of the spectrum. Frankly, because I think "You Are There" was hilarious--so it worked, it was successful. Even if some folks on the lists didn't get the homage and so couldn't figure it out. Even they thought it was funny. But true--MWF WAS a big risk and it was wildly creative and certainly fits the mold of some of PacRen's "other worlds" comedies--like the Herc ones that parodied the PacRen staff as they tried to make the show, and Shoe, with the fairy tale telling with personal twists. (If not for MWF, Shoe might well be my least favorite non Lucy-lite ep.) My problem with MWF was that it just wasn't funny to me. It was a pure Joxer mentality/comedy outlook showcase and I LOATH Joxer and his ways. Then CherylA wrote: "Yes a lot of people were upset by the mutant kids. No one in the episode however seemed to think they were odd. I had a bigger problem with some of the off colored humor - I thought it was inappropriate for an episode that kids would probably watch. As for being embarrassed - it takes a lot to embarrass me." You AND Tapert, apparently. Actually, due to Ife claiming to have found this better the second time around, I actually stuck it in the VCR and began to watch it. Just could NOT do it. Did I say I LOATH Joxer? And I loath "boy humor" where women are nothing but stupid silly jiggly jerks who spend all their time worrying aout how they look and scheming on how to get a boy interested in them. SURE, the script shows at the end that Hagar has learned a lesson, to value women, but til we get there, they get to demean women and watch them jiggle all their naughty bits for the boys (and some girls, like Liz). I noticed this time around that when Gab/Crusty leads the boys out of the room, her middle son even flips up her skirt to expose her panties. How droll. How Porkyesque. Then Ife wrote, in response to Cleanthes' post (And I KNEW that was Cleanthes writing that from the very first sentence...;-> ) "Unlike some, I do see Oz Gabs as demonstrating a great knack with children. Is that part of the "truth"? That she discovered she had that within her and brought that knowledge back to her reality? If so, that would certainly tie in neatly with her questioning that ability in the beginning of the ep. It certainly makes sense." I remember a few fans getting all huffy over this one because it wasn't "sensitive" to Gabrielle's pain over Hope. (You remember Hope--the entity who brought so much horror into X&G's lives that Gab tried to kill her twice. "AND her little fetus too!", to paraphrase a line from Oz.) These fans thought it was way cruel to portray Gabrielle as the mother of monsters after her angst over Hope. Thinking it over (and I blame you guys for MAKING me think it over--I just can't resist reading episode posts on this list), I think that this is yet another confirmation that Gabrielle realized that Hope was not her child. Fishsticks was a distorted shadow of the real world. In both worlds, Gabrielle appears to be the mother of monster(s) but in both worlds she eventually figures out that they are actually not her children at all. In Fishsticks, she realizes that though these kids look like monsters, they are not really bad, they have just not been trained very well. And she decides to rectify that and bring them up right. Hope is the opposite--she looks normal but is evil through and through. So evil that even Gabrielle realizes she is unredeemable and so tries to take her out. Being Gabrielle, she fails. I have to admit that I did find something worthwhile on my short sojourn into Fishsticks again--Alexandra Tidings was VERY good. She had the NY accent down just right. And not only the accent, but also the mannerisms and the...timing. She was REAL. (Better than Lucy in Grease, I think.) It was the only good thing I got out of watching it again though. It shall certainly never darken my VCR ever again. KT Who can't believe that my first post in weeks is about Fishsticks...ACK! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:18:25 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:07:46 +1300 cr wrote: CherylA wrote: "Gabrielle is for once the one whose judgment is to be trusted - watch how Cleopatra's handmaiden, Shiana, turns to Gabrielle to confirm Xena's orders. Gabrielle is now the one to be trusted while Xena is apparently spinning out of control." > cr wrote: "And (IMO) Xena was certainly not 'out of control', she had some problems with her feelings for Mark Anthony but nothing she couldn't handle." I think I didn't make myself clear. I think in Shiana eyes Xena is out of control or being seduced by Antony. Watch her in the scene she isn't happy and worried. When she brings Xena the flower that Antony sends with the message he wants to meet Cleopatra that night Xena says to tell him yes but Shiana looks to Gabrielle for confirmation and Gabby nods behind Xena's back. Shiana as a bystander is none too sure of Xena and consequently I believe the audience is being told that all is not well with the plan or Xena." > > > "Hmmm. More ambiguous than 'When in Rome'? Or 'Legacy'? Or 'Motherhood' or half-a-dozen other eps that I could name. Darker than 'Destiny' or 'Maternal Instincts'? If A&C is dark, it certainly is in good company :)" Yes darker than WIR or even Legacy. Darker because Xena is acting as the betrayer of man who is not evil - a man who is certainly ruthless but is honest and even honorable in his own way. Xena in her own way has always been honoable and honest in her actions - here she is not - she knows it and it haunts her. She destroys a man she likes and may even love for very tenuous greater good. Crassues is a liar and murder and deserving of is end. In Legacy Xena is still a hero who defeats Rome and saves the Bedouines despite her feelings about them. Gabrielle kills in other episodes but here when she kills Brutus there is a rage and even a sense of satifaction that we have never seen before. Gabrielle's action smacks a bit of vengence which is very unusual for her up to this point. > > "Chianna was also excellent. She didn't say very much, but she was always there in the background, watching. I think she was intensely loyal to her dead mistress and determined that her killer should be punished. My impression is that she, as Cleo's right-hand man (oops, woman :) probably used to run the palace, and was continuing to do so. I think she had discussed the plan with Xena, and certainly someone would have been needed to liaise between Xena and the Egyptian authorities. (And her presence with Octavius on the Egyptian flagship seems to support that). My memory of her is of her eyes, always watchful." Oh I agree Shiana is a wonderful character. She is certainly in on the plan and she was Cleopatra's most trusted and devoted adviser. I think however she was closer to Gabrielle and trusted her more than Xena probably because they have very similar backgrounds both are companions to very powerful but unpredictable women. I'm sure she sees Gabrielle as the woman who takes care of the pesky details in Xena's life as took care of them in Cleopatra's life. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:08:38 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: [chakram-refugees] Top Tens Revisited 2002-style Long long ago, in a galaxy far far away ... to be exact, driving along Interstate 5 after a hazy coupla days south of Tijuana to LAX .... KT and I are returning a cute little rental car to Los Angeles International Airport after a visit to Encenada (hey Linda!), following the 2001 Pasadena Con. We dropped off Warrior Rabbit in Sandy Eggo (KT's favourite way of spelling San Diego, she's sooooo droll) and were S.T.U.C.K. I.N. T.R.A.F.F.I.C..... Quelle surprise. We turned to the time-honoured way of killing time amongst Xenites (no, not tormenting members of the Jox Gabrielle Romantic Society by counting the numbers of X/G or X/A romantic moments and comparing them to the complete lack of G/J moments) but by trying to compile the definitive top ten episodes of all time - excluding all the unaired episodes we hadn't seen yet. Which was pretty much the finish of season 6 so we were getting close, ya know? But no FIN! Being control freaks the both of us (ie social sciences students fer crikeys sake) we had to set some paramenters first. 1) Multi-part eps counted as one (eg The Debt part 1 and part 2 counted as The Debt = 1 placing). 2) It had to be a great episode 3) The fewer flaws the better (I don't think we found one flawless ep) 4) How influential in the canon? 5) We had to agree (hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!) As a side bet we also were interested in two categories - ie Best Comedy, Best Uber. It was an interesting situation - 2 strong-willed friends who know every nuance of every episode and who had agreed on only two things in the course of a 4 year friendship (NZ is very beautiful, and almost as pretty as Alaska). So now we have the entire oeuvre at our at disposal! Let's do the time warp agaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnn!! Here's my first cut - what do you think? 1 The Debt (2 parts) 2 The Bitter Suite 3 Who's Gurkhan 4 Adventures in the Sin Trade (2 parts) 5 The Ring (3 parts) 6 Friend in Need (2 parts) 7 Fallen Angel 8 A Day in the Life 9 You Are There 10 Return of Callisto Comedy: Contenders - Many Happy Returns, You Are There, Old Ares Had a Farm, Lyre Lyre, A Tale of Two Muses, The Quill is Mightier, A Day in the Life, Been There Done That My Pick - A Day in the Life Uber: Xena Scrolls, Deja Vu All Over Again, Send in the Clones, Soul Possession, When Fates Collide My Pick - When Fates Collide So KT - and everyone - can we agree? Can we evaluate six fantastic seasons of Xena: Warrior Princess? Liz/Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #330 **************************************