From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #329 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, December 5 2002 Volume 02 : Number 329 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 02 December 2002 14:18, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/1/2002 4:41:37 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > > Also I though the WWF wrestling scene went way too far Lucy > > loves to ham it up but Becker should have reined her in a little. I > > just couldn't see Xena being that silly. > > > > I also had some reservations about Xena's character here. Xena actually > > got > > > on my nerves a bit. Gabrielle had good idea about staying with Amazons > > - Eve > > would have been safe there. Xena rejects this apparently because she > > was bored and perhaps a little miffed that Gabrielle would be "Queening" > > all > > day > > > and wouldn't have time for her. I don't think Xena is that selfish that > > she > > > would put her own comfort above her daughters well being. > > LOL! I actually found the silliness in the wrestling scene more palatable > than the Three Stooges bits in FURIES, even tho Xena was supposed to be > "out of her head" then. Yes, I found her 'silly walk' in Furies to be, almost, rather embarrassing. > Frankly, I thought her "they'll want a good show" > in KINDRED went along well with her generally mixed emotions about the > Amazons and some of their traditions. Her over-the-top performance > underscored her opinion about the nonsensical rules and form of "justice." I hadn't thought of that interpretation, I thought she was just, as she said, giving them 'a good show'. I suppose that suggests she thought the audience about as discriminating as the average wrestling crowd.... > Perhaps that's also why I could understand Xena's reluctance to subject > herself to "communal living" with the Amazons. 'Subject' being the operative word, I think. That is just not the Xena I know. It would be both an ordeal and totally out of character. (snip) > > BTW, I thought this ep was one of the biggest nods to fanfic, in terms of > having X&G discuss settling down and raising a child, with Gabs as queen > and Xena teaching the Amazons her many skills. It convinced me that the > idea should stay in fanfic, as the diaper changing was cute the first time, > but I had my teeth clenched through most of the time Eve was tagging along > with them at any age. :-) > > -- Ife I can just imagine how boring it would be. For Xena and for the viewers, IMO. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:41:32 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 02 December 2002 11:40, Cheryl Ande wrote: > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > This is a very enjoyable comedy. I thought of it in the vein of A Day In > The Life - no big plot points here just a glimpse of what life would be > like if Xena and Gabrielle would settle down with the Amazons. Josh Becker > did a fairly good job directing until he lost control of Lucy and the > script at the very end and we ended a very amusing comedy with too much > slap stick. I don't know if I'd say 'lost control', since Josh always did have a tendency towards slapstick himself. Certainly (according to his comments on his website), some of the wrestling sequence and some of the dialogue was actually suggested by Lucy. And I think Ted Raimi also came up with a couple of lines. (This is all from memory:) In fact, the script was virtually written while they were filming. According to Josh, the original script was very dark, involving sacrificing horses (sounds as if Lifeblood and KS were maybe developed out of the same original episode), and it all got rewritten in the course of a couple of days. That being the case, I tend to be fairly tolerant of the ep. > > > Meanwhile Xena and Gabrielle have a little confab with the Amazons in the > sweat hut. This is a good scene. The younger Amazons are picking the > brains of the two older and more experienced women about sex. When they > ask Xena and Gabrielle about men Gabrielle defers to the more experienced > member of the partnership - Xena. Xena is not too encouraging she says > sometimes you get Greek Fire and sometimes you get diddly. Rheas thinks > that agood lover should be kind and gentle - Xena vehemently disagrees > while Gabrielle dreamily concurs. Xena and Gabrielle exchange a nice > variety of smirks and knowing looks through out this scene. I was highly amused the way they both gave dogmatic and completely contradictory answers to every question they were asked. > > The direction was on the whole good. Josh Becker did a good job in the > sweat hut and with very funny scene of Gabrielle braying at the moon. I > think however he likes Stooge humor a little too muck. Did we need two > scenes of Joxer being pelted with mud by the Amazon kids or two scenes of > Gabby twisting Joker's nose. Also I though the WWF wrestling scene went > way too far Lucy loves to ham it up but Becker should have reined her in a > little. I just couldn't see Xena being that silly. Yeah, though maybe Xena was just putting on a show for the Amazons. To make it more entertaining for them so they thought they'd got their money's worth and wouldn't feel cheated when she revived Joxer. > I also had some reservations about Xena's character here. Xena actually > got on my nerves a bit. Gabrielle had good idea about staying with Amazons > - Eve would have been safe there. Xena rejects this apparently because she > was bored and perhaps a little miffed that Gabrielle would be "Queening" > all day and wouldn't have time for her. I don't think Xena is that selfish > that she would put her own comfort above her daughters well being. Maybe I'm antisocial, but I thought that was absolutely in character for Xena and I totally sympathise with how she felt. For starters, there was nothing for her to do there. She had no function. I'd say, Xena had to be either top dog, or doing her own thing. And in an Amazon tribe at peace, there was just nothing for her to do. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:58:04 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:41:32 +1300 cr wrote: > "Maybe I'm antisocial, but I thought that was absolutely in character for Xena and I totally sympathise with how she felt. For starters, there was nothing for her to do there. She had no function. I'd say, Xena had to be either top dog, or doing her own thing. And in an Amazon tribe at peace, there was just nothing for her to do." Well frankly the Amazons would have gotten on my nerves too (I actually work in an equivalent of a bureaucratic Amazon village and they do get on my nerves. I also think the Amazons got on Gabby's nerves too my episodes end. However if they are somewhere that is safe for Eve why not stay there. If not in the village then somewhere else - I'm sure Xena could scare up a few bad guys to fight. On the other hand she could have trained the Amazons to at least put out perimeter guards so strangers can't sneak up on them while they are bathing (apparently no Amazon tribes ever have guards around the village ie To Helicon and Necessary Evil). CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:00:22 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 00:41:32 +1300 cr wrote: > On Monday 02 December 2002 11:40, Cheryl Ande > wrote: > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > @ > > > > This is a very enjoyable comedy. I thought > of it in the vein of A Day In > > The Life - no big plot points here just a > glimpse of what life would be > > like if Xena and Gabrielle would settle down > with the Amazons. Josh Becker > > did a fairly good job directing until he lost > control of Lucy and the > > script at the very end and we ended a very > amusing comedy with too much > > slap stick. > > I don't know if I'd say 'lost control', since > Josh always did have a tendency > towards slapstick himself. Certainly > (according to his comments on his > website), some of the wrestling sequence and > some of the dialogue was > actually suggested by Lucy. And I think Ted > Raimi also came up with a > couple of lines. > > (This is all from memory:) > In fact, the script was virtually written while > they were filming. > According to Josh, the original script was very > dark, involving sacrificing > horses (sounds as if Lifeblood and KS were > maybe developed out of the same > original episode), and it all got rewritten in > the course of a couple of > days. > > That being the case, I tend to be fairly > tolerant of the ep. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile Xena and Gabrielle have a little > confab with the Amazons in the > > sweat hut. This is a good scene. The > younger Amazons are picking the > > brains of the two older and more experienced > women about sex. When they > > ask Xena and Gabrielle about men Gabrielle > defers to the more experienced > > member of the partnership - Xena. Xena is > not too encouraging she says > > sometimes you get Greek Fire and sometimes > you get diddly. Rheas thinks > > that agood lover should be kind and gentle - > Xena vehemently disagrees > > while Gabrielle dreamily concurs. Xena and > Gabrielle exchange a nice > > variety of smirks and knowing looks through > out this scene. > > I was highly amused the way they both gave > dogmatic and completely > contradictory answers to every question they > were asked. > > > > > The direction was on the whole good. Josh > Becker did a good job in the > > sweat hut and with very funny scene of > Gabrielle braying at the moon. I > > think however he likes Stooge humor a little > too muck. Did we need two > > scenes of Joxer being pelted with mud by the > Amazon kids or two scenes of > > Gabby twisting Joker's nose. Also I though > the WWF wrestling scene went > > way too far Lucy loves to ham it up but > Becker should have reined her in a > > little. I just couldn't see Xena being that > silly. > > Yeah, though maybe Xena was just putting on a > show for the Amazons. To make > it more entertaining for them so they thought > they'd got their money's worth > and wouldn't feel cheated when she revived > Joxer. > > > I also had some reservations about Xena's > character here. Xena actually > > got on my nerves a bit. Gabrielle had good > idea about staying with Amazons > > - Eve would have been safe there. Xena > rejects this apparently because she > > was bored and perhaps a little miffed that > Gabrielle would be "Queening" > > all day and wouldn't have time for her. I > don't think Xena is that selfish > > that she would put her own comfort above her > daughters well being. > > Maybe I'm antisocial, but I thought that was > absolutely in character for Xena > and I totally sympathise with how she felt. > For starters, there was nothing > for her to do there. She had no function. > I'd say, Xena had to be either > top dog, or doing her own thing. And in an > Amazon tribe at peace, there > was just nothing for her to do. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:26:47 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## # # This is one of my favorite episode for the simple reason that it shows very different sides of Xena and Gabrielle. Xena, I think for the only time in the series, is more woman than warrior. As for Gabrielle we see not only her level-headed best but also the darkness that the crucifixion caused in her. The plot is relatively simple. Cleopatra has been murdered. Her navy is now up for grabs for the contenders for Caesar's throne - Brutus, Marc Antony, and Octavius, Caesar's young nephew and heir. Xena has been summoned to solve the murder and to safe guard Egypt's independence. To do this decides to masquerade as Cleopatra and "get close" to Antony. So she is delivered to him rolled in a rug wearing only some chains and a seductive smile. She planed a seduction but instead it is she that is seduced by a surprising and romantic Antony. That Xena is smitten by Antony is no surprised. As played by Jon Bennett, Antony is charming. He doesn't fall for Xena's obvious seductive plans - he beholds a naked Xena with bemused suspicion . He is a ruthless warrior yet he can a poetic and tender lover. There is a wonderful moment when Xena has just captured young Octavius and has stopped Antony from killing him. Antony ,instead being upset gently kisses Xena check, at that moment Xena is a gonner. Xena is fascinated by Antony because he surprises her at every turn he won't be seduced by sex but will love the woman. Antony is an odd mixture of innocence and ruthlessness, poet and warrior, handsome but with the scars of battle on him. He is almost Xena's perfect match. As her relationship grows she finds herself in a very unaccustomed role - the betrayer. She knows that Antony is not Cleopatra's killer and that she is very attracted to him but more importantly she knows he sincerely loves her. She however has deceived him , and will use his love her against him if necessary. She is obviously upset by this turn of events. She finds herself suddenly playing the part that Caesar did in her young life - the betrayer of love. Gabrielle suggests a way out for Xena. If Antony would become an ally of the idealistic Octavius then Xena could spare him. It is not to be. Antony bluntly tells "Cleopatra" that all who oppose him will die. Antony is as dedicated as Caesar to power through blood and force as he says "it's the Roman way and he is a Roman". Gabrielle in this episode is also is portrayed in a very different light. Here she is the cool rational partner. As Eris (same name as Xena's wannabe sidekick in Kindred Spirits) she is masquerading as "Cleopatra's" companion. Gabrielle has no illusions about her partner's attraction to bad boys. Indeed you can see Gabrielle's mouth drop open when she first sees Antony - she knows that he is trouble. As Xena becomes more and more infatuated with Antony it is Gabrielle who tries to pull Xena back. She continually reminds Xena of the plan - even interrupting Antony's and Xena's seductive feast. Gabrielle is for once the one whose judgment is to be trusted - watch how Cleopatra's handmaiden, Shiana, turns to Gabrielle to confirm Xena's orders. Gabrielle is now the one to be trusted while Xena is apparently spinning out of control. Indeed it is Gabrielle who now is given an important task. She must evaluate the captive Octavius's motives and his qualification as future Roman emperor. Gabrielle visits Octavius in his cell and meets a young man who seems to be an idealist. He wants to put right the sins of his uncle and rule the empire in justice and peace. It is the dream of a boy but when the choice is a murderer, Brutus, and a romantic thug the best choice may be a naive boy. Gabrielle reports back to Xena that Octavius seems sincere but also suggests that perhaps Antony can ally with Octavius. Antony however admits that Octavius "may be a good boy" but he won't be allowed to live to be a good man. Gabrielle also must deal with the third contender for Rome's throne, Brutus. David Franklin's Brutus is a very different man than the one we met in End Game or Ides. Here we see a man who has lost his moral mooring adrift in a sea of violence and panic. It soon becomes apparent that he is the murder of Cleopatra. As he tells Xena since he could not compete with Antony for Cleopatra's affections so he decided to kill her and negotiate with her admirals for Egypt's navy. Brutus justifies his actions as a greater good but it is an act of a weak man. Brutus was always purported to be an honorable man but in reality he was always a weak man. When Caesar was alive he was the despot's willing tool. He excused his complicity in Caesar's crimes by saying that Caesar was working unselfishly for Rome's good yet Brutus knew better. He(as a different actor) was there when Xena and Crassius were betrayed. He saw Caesar burn the Amazon treaty and in the end he knew that he had been lied to about Caesar's plan to kill Gabrielle, a woman he apparently admired. It was obvious that Caesar was cruel and deceitful ruler yet Brutus never acted against him until he believed his own life is in danger (Ides of March). Brutus betrayed his hero out of fear and now his life is taken over by fear and self-loathing. He has embraced murder, yet unlike Antony who acknowledges his own murderous intentions, he is still hiding behind Caesar's false ideals - the good of Rome. Gabrielle when she meets Brutus has nothing but contempt for him. When he reacts in surprise to her surviving the crucifixion, she maliciously says "you should have been there." There are so many meaning behind that statement - Brutus should have been there to take responsibility for his part in her execution, been there to prevent an injustice as he implied he would, been there as a person who owed Gabrielle his life. Instead Brutus left her and other innocents to die while he saved his own skin at Caesar's court. Brutus who still remembers the Gabrielle of India is startled by her anger but any misgivings about her put aside when she volunteers to be his hostage when Xena gives him Egypt's fleet to fight Antony. Brutus a man who will believe almost anything if is suits his purpose is completely taken in my two women who have every reason to hate him. The episodes finale is a spectacular sea battle. Xena has given her fleet to Antony in order to attack Brutus. She has also convinced Brutus to engage Antony with the promise that she would reinforce him. Octavius with Shiana is with Egypt's fleet which will actually take both Antony's and Brutus's fleet from behind as they fight each other. As the battle approaches each man discusses his motives and future with his female companion. Antony tells "Cleopatra" that after the battle they will sail the Nile in golden barge . Xena listens to her ill-fated lover with guilt and remorse because she knows soon he will lie dead by her doing. Brutus tries once again to strike up a friendship with Gabrielle but she will have none of it and when he says they have both changed that "once she only talked of peace is now a warrior" she sharply reminds him that he is now a murderer. Octavius talks with Shiana's about fear and destiny. The battle commences when Brutus flag ship rams Antony's and Cleopatra's ship. As Brutus's forces board Antony's ship brutal hand to hand combat breaks out. Xena and Gabrielle dressed in Egyptian finery are surreally fighting as savagely as the soldiers. Suddenly Brutus is told Egypt is attacking his fleet and he realizes he has been betrayed. In a fury he attacks Gabrielle, brutally beating her. Gabrielle however is no longer the gentle pacifist Brutus knew - harden by the crucifixion and her life as Xena's protector she strikes back and with a roar of rage she slices Brutus's throat as the music from the crucifixion plays in the background. As Brutus dies he spies Xena on the foredeck and cries out her name. Antony fighting furiously hears Brutus and turns in disbelief to see his Cleopatra fighting with a warrior's skill. Then a hapless soldiers reports that Egypt's fleet is attacking both his fleet and Brutus's. He has been deceived. He goes to Xena furious and hurt. He loved her and she has betrayed him. Xena looks upon him with sorrow but as he attacks her defends herself at first just parrying his blows but when his murderous intentions are clear she easily kills him. Ashe falls dead at her feet he still declares his love for her. As the battle ends a rain begins to fall - Gabrielle stares up at Xena - their beautiful white dresses stained with blood - symbolic of the stain of blood and betrayal that are on their souls. This is perhaps the darkest and most morally ambiguous episodes of the series. Xena betrays a man who although certainly no saint is in his own way an honest man - a man who sincerely loves and respects her. Gabrielle kills certainly in self-defense but also in rage and revenge. Finally they do all this to secure Octavius's assent to Rome's throne who although an idealist also has his uncle's disturbing belief in his own destiny to rule. In the end the best that Xena can hopeful is that Egypt will remain free as Cleopatra wished. The episode was directed by Michael Hurst. He made some wonderful choices here. Everything is brightly lit as if in the glow Egypt's bright desert sun. Xena and Gabrielle are dressed in the purest white - they are beautiful and seductive in their sheer linens. Yet all this light and beauty deceives. The beauty is there only to deceive and the light only obscures the darkness of the tale. Now the episode is not with out it detractors. Some people complained about Jon Bennet's accent I however can't see why an Australian accent should bother anyone when our Greek heroines have American accents. History is also mangled very badly here and although many find this a real problem I just take it as the Xenaverse take on Cleopatra. I personally have a problem with the use of Natalie Merchant's Carnival in the feasting scene - I think it is out of place and sort of a MTV moment. I understand it was used as background just for editing purposes but that TPTB liked it so it stayed. Although I have grown accustomed to it I still think it is an annoying anachronism. Favorite lines: After Octavius is captured and Antony has kissed Xena and she is obviously smitten- Xena and Gabrielle are walking down the hall. A concerned Gabrielle asks Xena: What's the plan here? Are you going to flirt him to death? Xena airily: Don't worry. I'll have him on his knees,,,figuratively. After Gabrielle has broken up Xena and Antony very sexy feast Gabrielle something to the effect that Xena may have forgotten about the plan. Xena: "Don't worry I'll have him begging form my navel." Gabrielle wryly correcting her: "Navy" I also like the scene where Gabrielle and Shiana watch Xena and Antony making out. Shania looks very concerned but Gabrielle just looks turned on (not jealous as some suggested). Another good exchange: Xena and Octavius as fire bombs explode in Cleopatra's bedroom. Octavius wails: "They are trying to kill me." Xena: "Well aren't you the important one." I also like Xena's miffed expression in the opening scene with Antony. Here she is all naked and sexy and she has just kissed him so hard a key has popped into his mouth and what does he do - gives her a robe. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #329 **************************************