From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #323 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, November 27 2002 Volume 02 : Number 323 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Lee Daley" > In a message dated 11/25/2002 10:40:32 PM Central Standard Time, Brule31x63@aol.com writes: > Okay, well, this episode had strong similarities to `The Wizard of Oz`, > both in a heroine who needs to find her soul's home and in the very odd > encounters she has while in the mystical realm. Readers of the books will > know that Oz is shaped like a mandala - and I think this explains the odd > swimming that the mermaids do to make an OOOO, as the lifeguard calls out in > > `Married With Fishsticks`. > > Gabrielle's pearl ring, like Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby > for > the movie, I think because red photographs better), symbolize the Noetic > realm of the Theosophists. Our current mermaid lore derives from Hans > Christian Andersen and he drew on the same Hermetic sources as Baum's > Theosophists and those ruby slippers. The *movie* folks cheaped out, IMO, > by > NOT having the slippers on Dorothy's feet when she returned to Kansas. To > do > so, though, would probably have offended the religious fanatics of 1939 > since > it would have implied that witches and wizards, etc. are somehow "real". > > There's an ancient text about pearls by Bardesanes (c. 300 AD) called the > "Hymn of the Soul". In it, an adventuresome youth seeks a pearl at the > bottom of a deep well. For a time, the quest is forgotten because of all > the > gaudy baubles available down there to tempt one to drown. In the end, > though, the pearl is found and remindance given of the purposes for questing > > and questioning. The pearl, and the adventurer return. > > The pearl, you see, is the truth: truer than anything else. But it gives > Gabrielle the power to see the memory of Xena - as such, it was not at all a > > gift to Joxer fans, and the immediate punch that Gabrielle gives Joxer > proves > that. > > So, Gabrielle has the ring at the end because she had it, even if she didn't > > know it, at the beginning! (ditto with Dorothy) > > Cleanthes Oooo, I like! Unlike some, I do see Oz Gabs as demonstrating a great knack with children. Is that part of the "truth"? That she discovered she had that within her and brought that knowledge back to her reality? If so, that would certainly tie in neatly with her questioning that ability in the beginning of the ep. It certainly makes sense. And even though Xenastaff like to play with us, I always had the feeling the ring had some logic, some "serious" reference unrelated to Hagar/Joxer. A bit of stretch, even if intentional. Still, for those of us on discussion lists like this, what an interesting "gem" to discover months later in this craziest of eps. Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:09:38 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > On Tuesday 26 November 2002 17:39, Brule31x63@aol.com wrote: And I thought "who is this new lurker suddenly posting on the list?" (snippity snippity snip) > There's an ancient text about pearls by Bardesanes (c. 300 AD) called the > "Hymn of the Soul". In it, an adventuresome youth seeks a pearl at the > bottom of a deep well. For a time, the quest is forgotten because of all > the gaudy baubles available down there to tempt one to drown. In the end, > though, the pearl is found and remindance given of the purposes for > questing and questioning. The pearl, and the adventurer return. ... it was about this point that the style, or rather the erudition of the subject mattter, started to seem familiar to me.... > The pearl, you see, is the truth: truer than anything else. But it gives > Gabrielle the power to see the memory of Xena - as such, it was not at all > a gift to Joxer fans, and the immediate punch that Gabrielle gives Joxer > proves that. > > So, Gabrielle has the ring at the end because she had it, even if she > didn't know it, at the beginning! (ditto with Dorothy) > > Cleanthes > Ah HAH! Thought so! Welcome Cleanthes (or is it 'welcome back'?) Haven't seen you on the list for ages! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:51:35 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 26 November 2002 12:26, Cheryl Ande wrote: > From: "cr" > > > Oh, from my recollection the posse was well underway before MWF aired. > > I always thought O&K were quite unfairly made the scapegoats for anything > > anybody found wrong with Season 5. The Whoosh epsiode guide says Kevin > > Maynard wrote MWF, O&K aren't mentioned. Not Guilty, yer honour! > > cr why blind us with facts. It was all O & K's fault because .... > well...it just was! I rest my case! :) > > "Most of the episode - speciflcally, *all* of Gabs' 'dream' - has nothing > to do with anything recognisable. It would give me big problems even if I > liked it, simply because it's a huge YAXI - how could Gabby possibly dream > (or hallucinate or whatever) a very 20th-century scenario with a country > club, corporate politics, yadda yadda. ..." > > I have no idea where the "dream"came from. Wasn't this the season mermaids > showed up on Herc also. Perhaps TPTB were just mezmerised by mermaids. Well, mermaids I could have accepted, I guess, as just another mythical creature (like Centaurs). Trouble was, these were unmistakeably _20th-century_ mermaids. :( > > " The other thing is, I admit humour is a very personal thing, but I found > the > whole thing too bizarre to the point where I (mentally) fell off the > bandwagon so to speak and was embarrassed to be watching. Those deformed > genetic mutant freaks of kids were - well, just not funny to me." > > Yes a lot of people were upset by the mutant kids. No one in the episode > however seemed to think they were odd. I had a bigger problem with some of > the off colored humor - I thought it was inappropriate for an episode that > kids would probably watch. As for being embarrassed - it takes a lot to > embarrass me. I found that a number of my friends who weren't HCNB really > enjoyed this episode and I think I'm fond of it because my father liked > this episode a lot. Off coloured humour? I never noticed. But your comment about an episode that 'kids would probably watch' puzzles me - how would anyone know if an ep was suitable for kids or not, until they'd seen it? How could the kids (or, presumably, their parents) tell what an episode was going to be like? > " And the last few minutes is, well, nothing special but it doesn't make > me cringe. It's just the bit in the > middle that's the problem :)" > > Well it's a tough episode to defend , all right. And I can't. I just > liked it (I think actually I liked the puppet best - I was always a sucker > for puppets). > > CherylA (Shudder :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:20:15 -0500 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> Well this episode still has some power to raise discussion left in it. I have to agree with some comments, it was a very bad Xena episode, but a so-so Herc episode. And that Herc-ish cast to S5 was one of the reasons O&K were vilified. There was a feeling that they brought too much Herc with them. It was silly and tasteless (then again I've often been accused of being silly and tasteless), but it had a lot of Renee-time, that's good enough for me, I'd crawl over a mile of broken glass to listen to her read the telephone book. But now an Oz-ian connection, never in 10 winters would I imagine that. Although "Aphrodite did it during a commercial break" is a serviceable explanation. LeeD, Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #323 **************************************