From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #322 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, November 26 2002 Volume 02 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Meredith Tarr > [Sojourner > [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" > ["Cheryl Ande" > [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cher] Re: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song [mirrordrum ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Brule31x63@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:44:41 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 25 November 2002 10:51, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > Well when this episode aired the first time the howls of disapproval > nearly deafened me. My God - Xena has reached a new low wailed the > subtextors - Joxer kissed Gabrielle - the world will end right now. Joxer > fans wailed - Gabrielle is such a bitch she slugged Joxer after he saved > her from drowning. Others just generally wailed - this is not a Xena > episode (well they were kinda right). A posse was then formed to hunt down > Orci and Kurtzman (and then Rob for hiring Orci and Kurtzman). Having said > all this - I like MWF - it's stupid, bizarre, and yes, not a Xena episode > but I enjoyed it. Oh, from my recollection the posse was well underway before MWF aired. I always thought O&K were quite unfairly made the scapegoats for anything anybody found wrong with Season 5. The Whoosh epsiode guide says Kevin Maynard wrote MWF, O&K aren't mentioned. Not Guilty, yer honour! > Now this episode has some real flaws. The first being that most of the > plot has absolutely nothing to do with the premise set-up in the teaser. Most of the episode - speciflcally, *all* of Gabs' 'dream' - has nothing to do with anything recognisable. It would give me big problems even if I liked it, simply because it's a huge YAXI - how could Gabby possibly dream (or hallucinate or whatever) a very 20th-century scenario with a country club, corporate politics, yadda yadda. I like to rationalise away YAXIs and that one just won't go away. The best I can manage is to create a sort of mental blank as far as the episode is concerned. The other thing is, I admit humour is a very personal thing, but I found the whole thing too bizarre to the point where I (mentally) fell off the bandwagon so to speak and was embarrassed to be watching. Those deformed genetic mutant freaks of kids were - well, just not funny to me. The first five minutes is passable, nothing special but okay. Discord and Aphrodite's fire-fight is actually quite good, those two go well together, (though not as good as their earlier fight in Love on the Rocks - that's probably where the idea came from). And the last few minutes is, well, nothing special but it doesn't make me cringe. It's just the bit in the middle that's the problem :) All IMO of course. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Cheryl reviewed: > Well when this episode aired the first time the > howls of disapproval nearly deafened me. I gotta say, there was a *very good* reason for that. MWF was not only the worst episode of X:WP ever (and believe me, to sink lower than "In Sickness..." took some serious work), it was one of the most embarrassingly bad hours of television ever aired anywhere. I don't know *what* TPTB were thinking. I don't care about the Gabby/Joxer thing ... the episode just wasn't funny. It wasn't a X:WP episode - -- it wasn't even of this planet. The set design was bad, the costumes were bad, the lighting was bad, the script made no sense ... and in the morass ROC forgot that over the course of 4+ years on the show she had actually learned how to act. I watched the episode at the home of a HCNB friend, and when it was over we couldn't even speak. She rewound her tape so it would get taped over the next week (the only reason I archived it was because I'm a Virgo -- I never plan to watch it again), and we went on our way not acknowledging the last hour had even happened. I think it was definitely better that way. :} Meredith meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:43:54 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 08:04 25/11/2002 -0800, Meredith Tarr wrote: >Hi, > >Cheryl reviewed: > > > Well when this episode aired the first time the howls of disapproval > nearly deafened me. > >I gotta say, there was a *very good* reason for that. MWF was not only the >worst episode of X:WP ever (and believe me, to sink lower than "In >Sickness..." took some serious work), it was one of the most >embarrassingly bad hours of television ever aired anywhere. I don't know >*what* TPTB were thinking. > >I don't care about the Gabby/Joxer thing ... the episode just wasn't >funny. It wasn't a X:WP episode -- it wasn't even of this planet. The >set design was bad, the costumes were bad, the lighting was bad, the >script made no sense ... and in the morass ROC forgot >that over the course of 4+ years on the show she had actually learned how >to act. > >I watched the episode at the home of a HCNB friend, and when it was over >we couldn't even speak. She rewound her tape so it would get taped over >the next week (the only reason I archived it was because I'm a Virgo -- I >never plan to watch it again), and we went on our way not acknowledging >the last hour had even happened. I think it was definitely better that way. :} Being stuck downunder and not seeing season 5 live to air, I was a recipient of xena-parcels from friends in the US. I would get 2 eps per tape, mere weeks (as opposed to years, thanks NZ broadcasters) after the eps aired in the States. So there I am with MWF and Life Blood on a tape. And I get through 10 minutes of stunned disbelief - and not in the same good way of Bitter Suite or The Debt - I had this epiphany (no not ephiny, though I wouldn't say no, not really). I didn't have to watch this c-r-a-p because it wasn't a XWP episode. Only one "high" point in the ep for me - when I finally forced myself to watch it in the spirit of HCNB-hood - was of course the Lolita-shot of Renee (see I can't even call her Gabby) with the red sunnies and lollipop. I had that as wallpaper for quite some days. Of course I gagged when I realised she was ogling J-man. I mean, liking him, okay - even romantic subtext - respecting him is a bit far, but OGLING???? Well, we all do bad work sometimes. And learn our lessons. Sojourner PS go check out Mike's wallpaper of that shot http://www.mikes-images.com/html/gabrielle_27.html ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:54:54 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 11/25/02 10:05:28 AM Central Standard Time, meredith_tarr@yahoo.com writes: << She rewound her tape so it would get taped over the next week (the only reason I archived it was because I'm a Virgo -- I never plan to watch it again), and we went on our way not acknowledging the last hour had even happened. I think it was definitely better that way. :} >> To be fair, I wasn't fond of most Xena-lite eps (even those with Diana or Leah), and "Fishsticks" was no exception. I sat there with my mouth open the first time I saw it. However, I've almost always liked eps more the second time around, and "Fishsticks" was no exception there either. "For Whom The Bells Toll" was the only Xena-lite ep I hadn't made myself re-watch. I did recently and found I didn't hate it. True, I doubt I'll look at it again, but I'm just saying that *maybe* some eps won't be as repulsive now that we have some distance. As for "Fishsticks," I could overlook the fact that I didn't see much of Lucy and other aspects I won't go into, because I was so taken with getting to see Renee act her little comedic butt off. I still cringe at the thought that someone would be introduced to XWP with that ep, but when I think of it as a standalone in the context of XWP's campiness, I do think it represents the risks the show was always willing to take. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:43:22 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song I thought there was a song that had in it the names of dances of the 60s. Does anyone remember such a song?? Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:26:33 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> From: "cr" > Oh, from my recollection the posse was well underway before MWF aired. I always thought O&K were quite unfairly made the scapegoats for anything anybody found wrong with Season 5. The Whoosh epsiode guide says Kevin Maynard wrote MWF, O&K aren't mentioned. Not Guilty, yer honour! cr why blind us with facts. It was all O & K's fault because .... well...it just was! "Most of the episode - speciflcally, *all* of Gabs' 'dream' - has nothing to do with anything recognisable. It would give me big problems even if I liked it, simply because it's a huge YAXI - how could Gabby possibly dream (or hallucinate or whatever) a very 20th-century scenario with a country club, corporate politics, yadda yadda. ..." I have no idea where the "dream"came from. Wasn't this the season mermaids showed up on Herc also. Perhaps TPTB were just mezmerised by mermaids. " The other thing is, I admit humour is a very personal thing, but I found the whole thing too bizarre to the point where I (mentally) fell off the bandwagon so to speak and was embarrassed to be watching. Those deformed genetic mutant freaks of kids were - well, just not funny to me." Yes a lot of people were upset by the mutant kids. No one in the episode however seemed to think they were odd. I had a bigger problem with some of the off colored humor - I thought it was inappropriate for an episode that kids would probably watch. As for being embarrassed - it takes a lot to embarrass me. I found that a number of my friends who weren't HCNB really enjoyed this episode and I think I'm fond of it because my father liked this episode a lot. > " And the last few minutes is, well, nothing special but it doesn't make me cringe. It's just the bit in the middle that's the problem :)" Well it's a tough episode to defend , all right. And I can't. I just liked it (I think actually I liked the puppet best - I was always a sucker for puppets). CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:33:00 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Married with Fishsticks IfeRae pondered: "First, I'll say again that I liked this ep despite every reason in the world I would've expected to hate it. That said, my big question was and still is about why Gabs had the ring on when she regained consciousness." I have no idea. Perhaps it joins her pink nightie and jammies from Punchlines as one of her souvenirs. Perhaps Aphrodite gave it to her as an apology for knocking her in the water. It doesn't make sense but I think you have to work really hard to make sense out of this episode. Not much makes sense here but I just liked the bizarre nature of the episode. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:54:48 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Married with Fishsticks In a message dated 11/25/02 5:33:14 PM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << IfeRae pondered: "First, I'll say again that I liked this ep despite every reason in the world I would've expected to hate it. That said, my big question was and still is about why Gabs had the ring on when she regained consciousness." I have no idea. Perhaps it joins her pink nightie and jammies from Punchlines as one of her souvenirs. Perhaps Aphrodite gave it to her as an apology for knocking her in the water. It doesn't make sense but I think you have to work really hard to make sense out of this episode. Not much makes sense here but I just liked the bizarre nature of the episode. >> LOL! The strange part was that it brought the bizarre into the "normal." Maybe that was also another way of acknowledging how often the bizarre ... bled ... into the normal in the Xenaverse. Plus, Xena got to stick in and pull out all sorts of things from her breastplates, so I like your idea that Gabs got to have a few souvenirs from her various escapades. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] HLOFC Broadcast (fwd) Exciting news for Hudson fans!! :) -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:24:46 -0500 From: broadcast@hudsonleickfan.com To: abbagirl@cyberspace.org Subject: HLOFC Broadcast Greetings, Hudson Fans! To begin with, some news that (considering Hudson's talent) is long overdue. Hudson will be appearing on an episode of the TV show "Fastlane". Hudson tells me she will be playing half of a couple who own an S&M club, and extorts money from cops. Hudson has been working on the episode for the last 10 days or so, and is still working on it as of this time. At this time I do not have the actual episode title or air date, but I'll try to get that information when available. If you'd like to check out the show, it's on the FOX television network Wednesdays at 9pm eastern / 8pm central. In not so good news, the Playstation video game "Primal", which Hudson did a lot of work on recently, has had its release date pushed back. I believe I was told early spring, but I can't verify that because...... I recently suffered a minor computer disaster that wiped out ALL of my stored e-mails. If any of you have e-mailed me with questions, problems etc. and have not received an answer, please e-mail me again. I'm not ignoring you purposely, I simply don't have your e-mails anymore. I need you to re-contact me so I can reply to you. I apologize for the inconvenience. For those interested in Hudson's ongoing yoga retreats, there will be a four-day retreat held in a wonderful nature setting (but with nice accomodations) January 9-12, 2003 in the Washington DC / Baltimore area. If you are interested, please visit the HLOFC website and click the link under Recent News on the front page. This is also last call for anyone wanting to attend the very affordable one-day yoga workshop on Long Island December 8th. That link is also in the Recent News area of the HLOFC front page. Last but not least, attendees lists for the February Pasadena convention and April Xena Cruise have been added to the HLOFC website. Just visit the Conventions page for more information. Adding your name and e-mail to the attendees lists lets us keep you apprised of any special fan club events that may be scheduled for that appearance. I hope you all are doing well. Please contact me if you have any questions. Mike Ownby - ----- Hudson Leick Official Fan Club http://www.hudsonleickfan.com NOTE: We apologize if you have recieved this message more than once. We've having problems with our mailing software. To unsubscribe, send an e-mail to broadcast@hudsonleickfan.com with the word unsubscribe in the subject field. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:57:18 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song the first one that comes to mind is "do you love me (now that i can dance)?" but i'm not sure who recorded it first. i searched and it's a dave clark five song but i don't think that's who i've got doing it. i'll see if i can find it. anyway, do you want the lyrics or what? another one's claudine clark's "party lights" from 1962. you can just search either of those on google and you should get the lyrics. or i can do it for you. ;-> md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:43 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song > I thought there was a song that had in it the names of dances of the 60s. > Does anyone remember such a song?? > Sharon > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:59:35 -0500 (EST) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> I am in lfe's camp. Part of the reason I didn't like it the first time was that we were still watching to see where the journey would take us and after surviving crucifiction, battling demons in Heaven and Hell, having a baby, running from the gods and so on, it seemed like such a waste at the time. However, seeing it as recently as last week on Oxygen, I actually caught myself smiling at the poolside antics... the kids still giave me the creeps though. I guess if FIN is an example of the dramatic risk taking, MWF is certainly the other end of the spectrum in a comedic sense. I just miss seeing new episodes...sob. Thank goodness for the virtual seasons CJ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:02:40 -0500 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song okay, the cover i have is "the contours" and i think they pre-dated the dave clark five. it's on my motown classic years cd and motown artists were always ahead of everybody else. hokay lessee, um released 6/29/62. written by berry gordy. shoulda known. zat help? gonna get lucy to sing it for the con? md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:43 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] hunting for a song > I thought there was a song that had in it the names of dances of the 60s. > Does anyone remember such a song?? > Sharon > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:17:47 EST From: Junejanu@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Married with Fishsticks I have always wondered how many YAXIs were deliberately left in to provide conversation fodder for the HCNBs. June In a message dated 11/25/02 6:56:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, IfeRae@aol.com writes: > Subj: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Married with Fishsticks > Date: 11/25/02 6:56:21 PM Eastern Standard Time > From: IfeRae@aol.com > To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org > Sent from the Internet > > > > In a message dated 11/25/02 5:33:14 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > < > "First, I'll say again that I liked this ep despite every reason in the > world > I would've expected to hate it. That said, my big question was and still > is > about why Gabs had the ring on when she regained consciousness." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:33:01 -0500 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] win a trip to NZ Hi, Obviously this won't be of much interest to the Kiwis among us :), but there is a cool contest going on now, where the prize is a trip for 4 to New Zealand to check out the locations used for _The Lord Of The Rings_. http://verizonwireless.com/lotr (Also, if anyone is interested in finding the easter eggs hidden in the _Fellowship Of The Ring_ Extended Edition, e-me privately and I'll forward you the scoop I got the other day.) ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Chris & Meredith Thompson, 12/8/02 ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:39:59 EST From: Brule31x63@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 11/25/02 12:21:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org writes: > In a message dated 11/24/2002 3:52:00 PM Central Standard Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > @ > > > Eve starts to cry and now Gabby takes the > > baby and with renewed confidence comforts the baby and tells her the > mermaid > > tale (she is still wearing the pearl ring). > > First, I'll say again that I liked this ep despite every reason in the world > > I would've expected to hate it. That said, my big question was and still is > > about why Gabs had the ring on when she regained consciousness. I certainly > > didn't see any plot reason for that -- e.g., that one of the gods was > responsible for creating some actual alternate reality during her > unconscious state. Was it just a tongue-in-cheek gift to Joxer fans? A rather cheap > attempt to make us wonder if mermaid land was real? I recall some discussin > about that may have taken place when the ep aired, but I sure don't remember > the suggested explnations. > > - -- Ife Okay, well, this episode had strong similarities to `The Wizard of Oz`, both in a heroine who needs to find her soul's home and in the very odd encounters she has while in the mystical realm. Readers of the books will know that Oz is shaped like a mandala - and I think this explains the odd swimming that the mermaids do to make an OOOO, as the lifeguard calls out in `Married With Fishsticks`. Gabrielle's pearl ring, like Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby for the movie, I think because red photographs better), symbolize the Noetic realm of the Theosophists. Our current mermaid lore derives from Hans Christian Andersen and he drew on the same Hermetic sources as Baum's Theosophists and those ruby slippers. The *movie* folks cheaped out, IMO, by NOT having the slippers on Dorothy's feet when she returned to Kansas. To do so, though, would probably have offended the religious fanatics of 1939 since it would have implied that witches and wizards, etc. are somehow "real". There's an ancient text about pearls by Bardesanes (c. 300 AD) called the "Hymn of the Soul". In it, an adventuresome youth seeks a pearl at the bottom of a deep well. For a time, the quest is forgotten because of all the gaudy baubles available down there to tempt one to drown. In the end, though, the pearl is found and remindance given of the purposes for questing and questioning. The pearl, and the adventurer return. The pearl, you see, is the truth: truer than anything else. But it gives Gabrielle the power to see the memory of Xena - as such, it was not at all a gift to Joxer fans, and the immediate punch that Gabrielle gives Joxer proves that. So, Gabrielle has the ring at the end because she had it, even if she didn't know it, at the beginning! (ditto with Dorothy) Cleanthes *"On those rare occasions when you become a formless spirit, why not steal the best?" -'M. Butterfly' ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #322 **************************************