From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #312 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, November 13 2002 Volume 02 : Number 312 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO [cr >) [cr > ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention On Tuesday 12 November 2002 07:47, KTL wrote: > "Usually, talk of TV cults refers to the big fans of little shows, the > "alternative" viewers who passionately detour far off the beaten Nielsen > path. Amped by the obsession-feeding powers of the Internet, these cult > devotees form a personal bond with an obscure show that links up to their > very sense of self. Frequently aficionados of sci-fi, mythology, or > over-the-top comedy, they inevitably gravitate toward series such as > "Xena, Warrior Princess," "Stargate SG-1," "Absolutely Fabulous" and the > forgotten classic "The Prisoner." (snip) > Even though it's a slightly dubious look at Xena fans (though who can deny > that we've ALL been exposed to fans like the ones described above), it's > great to see the show still being mentioned even after more than a year of > being mostly invisible in Oxygen limbo. > > Just more proof that Xena is likely to be an enduring, indelible icon. > I suspect that she will become like Robin Hood, Zorro and King > Arthur--that her story will be recast, retold and celebrated for many > generations to come. Though nobody will ever do it so well as Lucy did. > > KT > Who would argue that "The Prisoner" is hardly 'forgotten' > It seems to have an influence or reputation out of all proportion to the 17 episodes which comprised the entire series. And it got a reference on Herc - Stranger in a Strange World - Iolaus: "I am not a numeral, I am a free man!" They forgot to mention Monty Python, btw. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:22:01 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO On Tuesday 12 November 2002 08:07, KTL wrote: > Massive snippage--in an attempt to set a good example for Thelonius. ;-> > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Critter wrote: > > > And I knew the dates had changed because there were numerous notices > > > posted on numerous lists from Xena fan club fans who ALWAYS pass on > > > any juicy news the moment they get it. The Creation site has had > > > notices up about the con for months also. > > > > > > > > > KT > > > > Hi KT and gang, > > > > What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena > > news and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but > > Xenaverse is pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago > > and must have missed their comments on the subject. > > I see that some of my buds have already answered this. > > And yeah, I meant more that anything that Lucy does is immediately shouted > out on numerous lists and that con information is usually posted two or > three times to a number of the lists. > > Yeah Xeanverse is very quiet. And as Thel said, Whoosh has lots of > traffice but not always about Xena--that's a very friendly chatty list. > It's also very show positive which surprised me a little. Considering the contrast between the Whoosh Letters page and the Whoosh list, it surprises the heck out of me! For some reason it appears many of the folks on the list are late arrivals who started watching in Season 5 or 6 so don't know they're supposed to disapprove of anything since the end of Season 4 ;-) > New Xenaland is also quiet but always has been. Them little Kiwis are > just so self-effacing, you know? In fact when I whined and badgered Liz > enough to where she decided that she had better either sign me up or > shoot me, she laid the stipulation on me that though she would sponsor me > as a member, I had to promise not to post--so I'm not allowed to talk on > there. I can only listen. What? Post, I tell you, post! *Any* traffic on the NewXenaland list would be most welcome.... > > I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about > > Xena. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Critter > > who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses > > episodes There is another - the Pacific Northwest list. You'd have to ask Xena Torres about that one (she's a member of this list). > Yup. This is without any doubt the premier show discussion list at this > time. And really we should thank Cheryl for that. I've written Cheryl a > little private fan mail on some of her posts in the past. While she and I > will never agree on the basic premise of the show, I respect her opinions > and her insights tremendously. Me too. (Isn't there a rule about 'me too' posts? How sad, too bad, never mind :) As you know I usually manage to disagree with Cheryl, but I vastly appreciate having her episode reviews to disagree with cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:59:51 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Employment (was: <>) On Tuesday 12 November 2002 07:30, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > > > Wish a few more people would pop up to argue oooops *discuss* the > > series.... > > > > Um, actually, I said that "sacrifice" stuff tongue-in-cheek. I indeed like > to see as many contrasting views as possible, but am perfectly content > rambling on my own. I think/learn through writing, through exploring > ideas, so am more selfishly interested in stimulating my own brain. If it > stimulates other brains, great. But I do need other brains to stimulate > mine. > > -- Ife Ahh, right. Let's try then, shall we. Just a little jolt from the electrodes.... could you feel that? Nurse, we need more voltage.... wind the handle faster.... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention Hi, cr noted re "The Prisoner": > It seems to have an influence or reputation out of > all proportion to the 17 > episodes which comprised the entire series. True. But having just seen it for the first time over the summer, I can totally understand why it has the following it does. It's just so wonderfully, deeply weird. > They forgot to mention Monty Python, btw. I was going to point that out as well. Monty Python is the king of cult tv, when you get right down to it. One thing about cult tv shows is that they keep getting introduced to new generations via reruns. As long as Oxygen owns the rights to X:WP, there's no way that can happen. I know I keep beating this drum, but it's an issue with me. Unless and until the rights revert to an outlet that is actually available to even a small majority of American televisions, X:WP is going to die a slow death, relegated only to the memory of the HCNB's like us who refuse to forget it. And then it won't even be a "cult show" any more. Meredith (@work too) meth@smoe.org U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:53:05 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> @ @ @ @ @ @ @ This one of my favorite episodes. It has a great guest star, Paris Jefferson as Athena, a nifty plot twist, good action, and a good showcase for Xena. Xena and Gabrielle with Eve return home to Amphipolis. What should have been a happy reunion with Cyrene is destroyed when Athena besieges the town. Athena wants Eve dead and she is willing to take Amphipolis hostage to get her. Athena is confident that the town will not go against its protector but she is surprised. In a wonderful scene Athena with an air od deep concern tells the people of Amphipolis to turn the child over. Xena who has made a plea on her child's behaft, I believe, half expects the townspeople to turn against her. It is then that Cyrene turns the tables - she will not give up her granddaughter and sings the Amphipolis anthem. The townspeople join her, declaring their independence from the gods and drowning out Athena as she tries to convince them to give up the child. As Athena begins her battle with Amphipolis Xena makes plans of her own. WIth Gabrielle leading an attack against Athena's army, Xena plots to flank the army using tunnels. She is stopped by Athena's chosen and possible lover Ilianus. Although Xena's plan fails Ilianus saves the day by blowing up the tunnel and the army Gabrielle is fighting (great comment by Gabby as she picks herself up after the explosion; ruefully "That was unexpected"). But things still aren't going well - Athena appears to Xena and tells her she cannot win. She has poisoned the water. Xena challanges Athena to personal fight but Athena declines - she is no fool she is winning and she knows it. Xena however has a wild card up her sleave. That card is Ares. Ares already is interested in the battle. Ares arrives in Athena's war camp with some unsolicited advise. It is obvious that this brother and sister war gods do not get along. There is a wonderful chemistry between PJ and KS and they make very head-strong siblings. He offers advice and Athena condensingly declines it. He makes snide comments about her tactics and chosen, she counters with barbs about him "thinking with his cod-piece." Things between the two just get worse. Xena now calls on Ares. In a temple (I was going to say his temple but I'm betting it was Athena's - more irony) Xena offers herself to the god. He can have it all her sword, her body, and a child - just fight by her side and save Eve. Ares is tempted but he believes Xena is playing him - again. He rejects her offer. Meanwhile Gabrielle is on the frontlines. One of the villagers is saying that perhaps they should turn Eve over to Athena. Gabrielle grabs the villager by the collar and tosses him like a ragdoll (I thought was a bit out character). She then turns to the people and says that yes they could turn the baby over and save themselves. But what happens when some god shows up and wants another child - your child? This is their opportunity to free themselves from being pawns of the gods. Gabrielle now calls upon Ares. She begs him not to take up Xena's offer. She tells him that if she goes back to her old ways it will destroy her and she will never love him. Ares slyly asks Gabrielle if Xena would keep her word. Sadly Gabrielle asks if Xena has ever gone back on her word. Ares with a smirk says that's all he need to know. Back the temple Xena dressed only in a bearskin and smile awaits Ares. Ares arrives ready to consumate the deal. But first Xena wants to make the deal clear, Ares will fight with her against Athena and save Eve. Ares with an armful of Xena readily agrees - with that settled Xena tosses Ares on a couch is about to have her way with him But wait doesn't she hear something - no nothing says Ares - but yes there is something - no no nothing - then suddenly the temple wall blows up. And there stands a shocked Cyrene staring at her unclothed daughter on top of the war god. Cyrene however looks on the bright side - he is a god - no Apollo or Hermes (outraged Ares: The guy with wings on his feet?!) but he will do. And by the way Gabrielle is attacking Athena's army. Xena rushes to Gabrielle (she does put her clothes on). Gabrielle is indeed attacking and losing. Athena coolly orders her chosen to put "an arrow in the little bard and we'll see how Xena reacts as Gabbrielle slowly bleds to death". Xena appears however carrying Eve. The battle stops and Gabrielle rushes to Xena to stop her, but Xena wants the battle to end. She lays her child at Athena's feet. Athena with as much compassion a person can have as she is about slaughter an infant raises her sword when Ares saves Eve. Ares and Athena begin to fight and Xena fights Ilianus and Gabrielle sudenlly calls in reinforcements and the battle begins again. This time townspeople are now winning. Ares isn't doing so well against Athena but when she taunts him by asking him if he is worried about his girlfriend he answere "no but you might be worried about your girlfriend." A startled Athena turns just in time to see Xena skewer Ilianus. Athena in grief calls off the battle but she warns Ares that this is how all the gods will end if Eve is not destroyed. Ares is now ready to truly consumate the deal - he has fullfilled his end of the deal. Wait says Xena he didn't fullfill all of the bargain. Ares is justifiably angry - he did fight against Athena and he saved Eve. Just as he says this she tosses him "Eve" - it is an ugly doll - "Nope you saved my dollie". Ares is not happy he says that he could tell that Xena felt something for him back at the temple. Xena with a sidelong look at Gabby says she felt nothing. As Ares disappears she amends this a bit - she did feel something . As Gabrielle is about ask for an explanation Cyrene arrives with Eve, and Xena explains that this was all a trick. She and Gabrielle played Ares (although it might have not been a trick if Gabby was just a hair later in blowing up the temple). Xena and Gabrielle now walk back to town however it wold appear Xena has some explaining to do about what she exactly "felt" about Ares. Great episode. Paris Jefferson's Athena is a fascinating character. Athena is not evil - she appears to be rational, civil and even compassionate. She however is as obessed as Zeus with Eve but now there is the added element of revenge. She blames the child for her father's death. Ares points out that Eve did not kill Zeus - it was his obession that forced Hercules to kill him. A baby cannot hurt them. Athena will not listen. She will destroy anyone in her way to get to the baby. Her ruthlessness more than anything else turns the people against her - she destroys any goodwill the people have for her. Her worshippers dessert her because of her own actions. She proves Gabrielle right - the gods don't care about the people only themselves. Athena perhaps the best of the gods is no different than the worst of the gods when her own self-interest is on the line. Also we have a great plot twist here. Although I was sure Xena had some plan when she offerred herself to Ares, I had no idea Gabrielle was in on it. In fact it is Gabrielle's little speech to Ares that made be wonder if Xena might just be serious. Gabrielle was so sincere, so in character that it seemed like a real plea to Ares to leave Xena alone. Ares was completely taken in as many of the audience. Some fans complained that they didn't like Xena using her body to get what she wanted - well the body was the bait but it was Xena's cleverness that got her what she wanted. Some good lines also; Ares to Xena: "Athena's beating you like a dog" Athena to Ares: "I am about catapult dead cows into the town." Ares: "Gotta love a classic" Athena to Ares: "I would like to end this without bloodshed"(referring to the seige) Ares: "Where's the fun in that" Gabrielle to Eve as they watch Xena kick butt: "Shh Mommy's working" Funniest continuity problem: Gabrielle's self-repairing hammer. Gabrielle is swinging a really big hammer in battle and sometimes it's bent and sometimes it ain't. Historical note: Amphipolis was allied with Athens during its war with Sparta so I quess that would make Athena it's patron. However she didn't seem to do a very good job of protecting the place - Cortese attacked it, Draco attacted it (Sins Of The Past0, and Callisto attacked it (Intimate Strangers). Since Xena saved the town three times it is no wonder the town backed her. I don't know if I'll post next weekend - I'll be busy Saturday and I'll have to be away on business Sunday night so I don't know if I'll get watch Xena this weekend. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:03:52 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: List (was Lucy and Renee at Pasadena) KT wrote: " Yup. This is without any doubt the premier show discussion list at this time. " Yes the few other lists I'm on seem to discuss lots of stuff besides Xena. I hardly ever post there. I like this list best because of the great people here and that even includes that old Gabbasher cr ;-). Let me also say I've a couple of people from the list and they are very nice people. " And really we should thank Cheryl for that. I've written Cheryl a little private fan mail on some of her posts in the past. " And the people are really kind to me and let me blather on in endless fashion and never tell me to shut-up. Believe it or not I been told to shut up a few time in my life. "While she and I will never agree on the basic premise of the show, I respect her opinions and her insights tremendously." See kind people - I get respect too - who wouldn't love it here. > " We differ because I see the series primarily as the story of Xena's redemption and I believe that she sees it primarily as the story of the partnership of Xena and Gabrielle. ..." And we are going to have to discuss this at some length very soon. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #312 **************************************