From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #311 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, November 12 2002 Volume 02 : Number 311 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #310 ["Cheryl Ande" >) [IfeRae@aol.c] [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO [KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 11 November 2002 12:08, Cheryl Ande wrote: > @ > @ > @ > @@ > > > Once again this episode is much better that I remembered. It is an > interesting character study of Xena, Ares, Gabrielle, and Joxer. > > The plot is fairly simple. Xena, Gabrielle, and baby Eve are chased by a > god sent tornado (excellent action scene) into a cave pointed out to them > by a mysterious figure. That was, indeed, a really good action scene. Was the mysterious figure Ares? I think so. > At the cave they meet up with Joxer who has what > appear to be three magi with him who want to honor Eve (this scene was very > clever and effective in fooling the audience). Was it ever. Just as my personal Biblical-epic-phobia was reaching - well, Biblical proportions - the three wise men turned into Magi Assassins. I *love* it when TPTB use my preconceptions to fool me, it completely cracked me up. > Lucy is very funny as the horny Xena. Trying to convince herself that a > dream is just a dream and there is no truth to it. That's one of Lucy's best comic moments, I think. Getting carried away by the recollection of her dream and suddenly waking herself up with a guilty start. > Ares however does have a learning curve at a crucial moment in the > battle between Xena and the three armies, Ares literally hold Eve's life in > his hands and he doesn't use her as pawn. If he only at that moment he had > helped Xena without any strings who knows if he might have been able to > sway Xena a bit to his side, but he doesn't. He leaves her and Gabrielle > to fight the armies. Xena is of course victorious, winning the battle with > a spectacular chakram toss. Ares' appearance in the midst of the battle was a lovely effect. Everything stopped (presumably Ares froze time) and left just Ares walking through the 'frozen' scene. The master stroke was where he knocked the sword out of a soldier's hand - that made it look totally 'real'. From my recollection, they only used that effect one other time in XWP, in Them Bones where Gabby went into Alti's spiritual world. It was just as effective there, too. > Gabrielle finally feels guilty about how she is > treating him and declares herself a bitch. [cr carefully notes this down for future reference..... :] > The two friends continue on their way to the mandrake tree but get lost. > Obviously Gabrielle who has been traveling for 5 years with Xena is unable > to tell north (this of coursed has been known to happen to experienced > woodsmen in heavily forested areas but this doesn't seem to be the case > here - it appears it is plot device ). Dare I say "One Against an Army'? ;-) > As Joxer becomes delirious he reveals more and more of his true feelings > for Gabrielle. Gabrielle just doesn't know what to say to him. Finally he > bluntly asks her why she doesn't love him. Gabrielle now must come up with > an answer for a question that has no answer. Gabrielle can only say that > she does love him as a friend - that the love he wants from her is just not > going to happen and she is sorry. > > At this point Joxerfans usually declare Gabrielle a bitch. Well, actually, Gabby did that herself ;) Heck, I don't criticise her for that. (Her actions I mean, not the 'bitch' part. Oh well OK, that too, whaddaya expect from me, compliments? :) Anyway, IMO she did right. Why should she pretend to love the sap if she didn't? I also felt Joxer was using his condition as a sort of low-key moral blackmail. > Back to the episode. Lots of great stuff here -great fight scenes first in > the cave and then when Xena and Gabrielle take the temple armies, a > wonderfully yucky scene where Artemus's priestess pulls out a worm infested > heart, and one terrific chakram toss - it deflects an arrow, kills the > Artemus's priestess, careens off to kill another priest and the deflected > arrow kills the third priest. That was a really neat effect. That huge 'mandrake' tree that Xena and Ares were in puzzles me though, I have no idea where it is. There are a few trees like that around Auckland, in public parks like the Auckland Domain or Albert Park, but that one isn't there so far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure it isn't at Bethells, it isn't in Mount Mangere, it isn't at their outdoor sets at Lion Park and I don't think there were any trees like that at their earlier sets at Sturges Road. Those trees aren't New Zealand natives, they would have been planted by the early settlers, and because of their size, only in public parks or major homesteads. Just one of those remaining puzzles to intrigue me. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:17:44 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #310 > From: IfeRae@aol.com " But isn't this also the ep where blood gets on Eve? And Ares uses that in his argument with Xena? I thought it added at least a touch of realism, in recognition that a baby in the middle of bloodbaths wasn't exactly without ramifications, even if the fights were for good purposes. I remember wondering at the time whether the blood that got on Eve (whichever ep that happened in) would be referred to later, but apparently her young exposure to that wasn't what came back to haunt them later." Yes it is and I forgot to mention it. It certainly can be seen now as foreshadowing what will happen to Eve in later years. Certainly Xena and Gabrielle worried about the effects of violence on the baby but frankly there isn't much Xena can do about this for now. The gods are the one pursuing them and Xena is forced to expose Eve to violence. CherylA (gainfully employed) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:30:48 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Employment (was: <>) In a message dated 11/10/2002 11:10:45 PM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Monday 11 November 2002 14:26, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > > > > *Someone* has to make the sacrifice. Thel and Cande and I have chosen to > > throw ourselves into that dark pit of Postdom, in the hopes of saving > > discussion on the list. We'd love to have company, as Dahak would like > > nothing better than to see X&G perish in the flames of obscurity. > > BTW, I ain't writing on somebody else's time, as I'm self-employed. > > > Good thing my "boss" is a Xena fan, but she hasn't figured out how to pay > > me for messin' around with with stuff. > > > > -- Ife > > Yep, it's a weird-feeling concept for me to try and grasp that my > self-indulgent blathering is actually presumed to be for the Greater Good > ;-) > > Wish a few more people would pop up to argue oooops *discuss* the series.... > > Um, actually, I said that "sacrifice" stuff tongue-in-cheek. I indeed like to see as many contrasting views as possible, but am perfectly content rambling on my own. I think/learn through writing, through exploring ideas, so am more selfishly interested in stimulating my own brain. If it stimulates other brains, great. But I do need other brains to stimulate mine. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:47:51 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention To my vast delight, I found a Xena mention in the newspaper yesterday. This is from an article about the show "Law and Order" attaining true cult status which the writer says is highly unusal for a prime time, mainstream show. The article was originally written for the Boston Globe of November 3, 2002 and reprinted in the Anchorage Daily News of November 9, 2002: "Usually, talk of TV cults refers to the big fans of little shows, the "alternative" viewers who passionately detour far off the beaten Nielsen path. Amped by the obsession-feeding powers of the Internet, these cult devotees form a personal bond with an obscure show that links up to their very sense of self. Frequently aficionados of sci-fi, mythology, or over-the-top comedy, they inevitably gravitate toward series such as "Xena, Warrior Princess," "Stargate SG-1," "Absolutely Fabulous" and the forgotten classic "The Prisoner." "But there is a zealous cult that has taken as its beloved object one of television's most visible phenomenons. The cult of 'Law and Order' is a passionate subgroup of 'Law and Order' viewers for whom there are few greater entertainment pleasures on Earth." Even though it's a slightly dubious look at Xena fans (though who can deny that we've ALL been exposed to fans like the ones described above), it's great to see the show still being mentioned even after more than a year of being mostly invisible in Oxygen limbo. Just more proof that Xena is likely to be an enduring, indelible icon. I suspect that she will become like Robin Hood, Zorro and King Arthur--that her story will be recast, retold and celebrated for many generations to come. Though nobody will ever do it so well as Lucy did. KT Who would argue that "The Prisoner" is hardly 'forgotten' And who will be revisiting many lovely Chakram old posts when my workload FINALLY slows down next week... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:07:56 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO Massive snippage--in an attempt to set a good example for Thelonius. ;-> On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Critter wrote: > > And I knew the dates had changed because there were numerous notices > > posted on numerous lists from Xena fan club fans who ALWAYS pass on > > any juicy news the moment they get it. The Creation site has had notices > > up about the con for months also. > > > > > > KT > > Hi KT and gang, > > What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena news > and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but Xenaverse is > pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago and must have > missed their comments on the subject. > I see that some of my buds have already answered this. And yeah, I meant more that anything that Lucy does is immediately shouted out on numerous lists and that con information is usually posted two or three times to a number of the lists. Yeah Xeanverse is very quiet. And as Thel said, Whoosh has lots of traffice but not always about Xena--that's a very friendly chatty list. It's also very show positive which surprised me a little. New Xenaland is also quiet but always has been. Them little Kiwis are just so self-effacing, you know? In fact when I whined and badgered Liz enough to where she decided that she had better either sign me up or shoot me, she laid the stipulation on me that though she would sponsor me as a member, I had to promise not to post--so I'm not allowed to talk on there. I can only listen. > I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about Xena. > > Thanks, > > Critter > who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses > episodes Yup. This is without any doubt the premier show discussion list at this time. And really we should thank Cheryl for that. I've written Cheryl a little private fan mail on some of her posts in the past. While she and I will never agree on the basic premise of the show, I respect her opinions and her insights tremendously. We differ because I see the series primarily as the story of Xena's redemption and I believe that she sees it primarily as the story of the partnership of Xena and Gabrielle. I believe this because she tends to frame the episodes as showing the development of Gabrielle into a full partner. I would (will) argue this when I have more time. Both that Gabrielle never achieved full partnership (though Xena always considered her a better person than she herself was) and that the story was always about Xena's personal journey. Yes Gabrielle was a huge part of that. But for me and I think for most of the production staff, the presence of Gabrielle in Xena's life was a way to showcase changes, dilemmas, traumas and learning that Xena was going through, that she HAD to go through to achieve her redemption at the end. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #311 **************************************