From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #301 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, November 2 2002 Volume 02 : Number 301 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena srew-ups [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] X&G "Screw-ups" [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO [Fuzz SHaron, > > Something I do not understand is receiving this notice today and gold > circle is sold out already. > > Can you explain this > I was thinking the same thing. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:02:08 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena srew-ups On Friday 01 November 2002 06:53, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > > "Hmmm. Now almost every single one of those > 'screw-ups' you list were well in the past, and if you recall, Xena spends > most of her current life trying to atone for them. A lot of those > actions were due to 'evil Xena', not what I'd call 'screw-ups'. And > 'new' Xena doesn't make them. > Nor were any of the consequences visited on > Gabrielle, other than by Gabrielle's own choice in hanging around Xena and > refusing to go away." > > My point being was that Xena understands the reason why Gabrielle makes > mistakes - it is because she is inexperienced and young. Xena know from > her own experience that mistakes are inevitable when you are young. That > is why she seems so tolerant of Gabrielle. Simply because Xena was "evil" > doesn't make those decisions not errors in judgement. You can be evil and > make smart choices - Xena makes really bad choices because they don't get > her what she wants and she had enough evidence that those choices may in > fact not get her the desired outcome. Caesar doesn't hid the fact he is > an arogant patrician, it might have occurred to Xena that a Greek pirate > may not be someone Caesar would consider as a partner. Borias warns Xena > bout pushing Tein but she does it anyway and La Mao certainly doesn't hide > the fact that she is attached to her son. Alti never demonstrates to Xena > that she can give her any more power than she already has, in fact Cyane > demonstrates that she is more powerful than Alti. Akemi is certainly > circumspect about her father - she doesn't rush home to Dadddy - instead > she takes Xena to visit her dead grandparents and off to get a really sharp > sword - why doesn't Xena tumble to the fact that something isn't right. > All these are examples of Xena's mistakes in judgements - mistakes she > admits she has made. > > CherylA Those may be errors of judgement, made more obvious with hindsight, but it would be hard to argue that they were obviously and gratuitously stupid at the time. Can you tell me where - in the here and now - Xena does something obviously and spectacularly stupid (not just an error of judgement or a debateable choice between alternatives) and drops Gabrielle right in it? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:03:27 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] X&G "Screw-ups" On Friday 01 November 2002 07:28, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > > > Well, no, you're changing the circumstances. I'm not talking about a > > planned or necessary 'mission'. I'm talking about somebody - say, me > > - unilaterally deciding to do something damn stupid and dangerous. If > > I'm going to justify it by saying it's my neck and I'm entitled to risk > > it, > > then > > I should make darn sure I don't risk somebody else's in the process. >> > > I'm not changing the circumstances. I have a different view of them. > What's "damn stupid and dangerous" to one person is "right" or at least > "necessary" to someone else. Yeah fine, let that person go and do it then, without putting *my* neck on the line. This sort of argument crops up in mountain-climbing. It's why some of the most notable (read 'crazy') climbers prefer to climb alone. If they make a serious error of judgement, they don't want to be responsible for killing someone else. > We've have great debates on the list about > that, whether Xena or Gabrielle was the subject. It doesn't have to be a > "mission." It could be Xena happening upon a battle between two factions, > as in DOCTOR, and being drawn into it, later blaming herself because > Gabrielle is nearly killed. But Gabrielle wouldn't blame Xena for taking > her into that situation, nor for Gabrielle's decision to risk her own life > saving a child. It could be Gabrielle seeing Autolycus being led, shackled, > onto a ship and her "unilateral" decision to interfere because she cares > about him. Those were just situations that arose, and in neither case would I argue that X or G's involvement was a 'screw-up'. > The reality is that Xena's decisions often involved "missions" > because she was so often reacting to past actions, whereas Gabrielle's were > more "in the moment" responses to something happening in the present. But > that doesn't, to me, automatically make Gabrielle's actions less > "necessary" or more stupid. It isn't 'in-the-moment' actions I'm arguing about. It's situations that were set up by someone when quite obviously anybody with any sense should have known better. > Maybe our difference lies in whether we see them as a team or not. Maybe. I absolutely do not. I see them as individuals. I am *not* a 'team player' ;) In my view, individuals have the right to make decisions for themselves. They do not have the right to make decisions for other individuals, or to commit other individuals to anything. Equally, others do not have any right to demand to be consulted about one's choices for oneself. (Exceptions may apply in the case of family or dependents where one's own choices affect their future. And before you raise it - In Xena's case, it was impractical to consult Cyrene or Solan, but in any case Cyrene wasn't dependent on Xena, and Xena had done her best to see Solan safely adopted out). > Early > on, I saw Xena more as an individual actor, appropriately concerned that > her innocent companion might inadvertently be hurt in one of Xena's planned > or spontaneous good deeds. But Gabrielle soon wanted to play more of an > active role and learned fighting skills to do that. Sure, Xena didn't > always accept that partnership, but she certainly was more willing to by > the end of season 3. Again, Xena had every right to *not* accept that 'partnership', IMO. It wasn't of Xena's choosing, Gabby had no business trying to impose it. (Gods I hated Gabby's presumption in those early eps.... ) > Both of them made individual decisions at some point, > even against the wishes of the other. But, as a team, the other partner > couldn't help but get involved, not even questioning the stupidity or > danger of an act, so much as wanting to defend her partner. I just don't > see where your "moral requirement" is realistic, even if one of the > partners believes she's following it. I can think of several occasions where it obviously applies. For example, Gurkhan. Gabby tried to kill G in the middle of his palace, right in front of Xena.... what does she *think* is going to happen? Can she imagine Xena isn't going to get involved? The most likely result is that they both get killed or executed. Even if you wish to regard them as a 'team' (in which case I'm tempted to ask exactly what function Gabby filled in it? ;) then I think it's absolutely incumbent on each team member not to needlessly endanger the other(s). > > In other words, if you're going to drown yourself, *don't* do it in > > sight of > > people and get several rescuers drowned with you, that's murder, IMO.>> > > Oh, now you're going to extremes. The only time I can remember either X or > G intentionally getting herself *permanently* killed was SACRIFICE. (I > won't argue here about FIN). I'm talking about the bulk of their > situations, where one or the other did what she thought was right, with a > possible result being her death. Maybe I should have made it clearer and said 'If you're going to risk drowning yourself ....' My argument remains the same. "Don't let your own stupidity drag other people down with you." > > > How can you focus on the primary > > > goal, if you're more worried about figuring out how to keep anybody > > > else from participating? > > > > Huh? That's a smokescreen. There are *always* circumstances that > > have to be taken into account. >> Well, keep extraneous complications out of it from the start, and that's one less complication to worry about when things start happening, I think. > Have you heard "paralysis of analysis"? Xena of all people went step by > step, worrying about the next step as it came. Gabrielle was more likely > to weigh the pros and cons, to look at the "big picture." But when it was > time to act, neither became paralyzed by all the possible ramifications. > Otherwise, they'd never be able to act, certainly not spontaneously as they > often did. "Gee, should I see what's up with Auto? What if the boat takes > off and I get seasick? What if Xena doesn't see us leaving? What if those > men take me prisoner too? What if ...?" Heck, the boat and Autolycus > would be long gone. One could well argue that Gabby should have gone and told Xena, whereupon they could either plan a proper rescue, or if need be take a boat in pursuit, instead of getting herself captured and disappearing with no way of getting a message to Xena. But that decision doesn't even begin to rate in the 'screw-ups' list.... > > Heaven preserve me from somebody who decides they're going to get > > themself killed and politely invites me along for the ride, is all I can > > say to that. >> > > I don't recall either X or G doing that. And if she did, the other one > could say "no." You know they wouldn't. > > It strikes me as far more arrogant for A to decide that he's going to do > > something which will probably get him killed and assume that B will > > naturally > > want to do it too. That's not love, IMO, it's egomania. >> > > Huh? My point is that X or G did what she felt she had to, mistakenly > *not* assuming the other would want to come along. They knew perfectly well the other would want to come along. Which is why Xena went to some lengths on occasion to stop Gabby 'coming along'. Quite rightly so because Xena was doing what she was good at, where Gabby in such situations was never any help and usually a liability. (Certainly in all earlier seasons). > > (By the way, you mentioned 'arrogant' up there, and people's rights to > > make > > their own decisions.... how much more arrogant for Gabby to decide > > that her > > concept of what Xena's conscience ought to be, was more important than > Xena's life. She had *no* right whatever.)>> > > Agreed. > > -- Ife Whew. That's something ;) Now would someone like to bring up an instance where I can say something nice about Gabby? All this Gab-bashing is making me feel like an evil warlord. cr (Goes off to torture some cute little furry animals.....) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:23:19 +0000 From: Fuzz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO Well I remember seeing an update from Creation several weeks ago that there were only 50 Gold packages left for this year. Considering that a fair number of people take up the option to buy their gold package a year in advance, and others just buy a Gold package hoping that the guest list will subsequently justify the outlay, I am not at all surprised that the Gold sold out. I recall how quickly the Gold seats have sold out on previous years when Lucy has been confirmed as attending. You had to be lucky enough to happen to be on line when the website was updated. A delay of even a half hour meant missing out (as some friends of mine discovered last night). Now then, I'm very lucky to have bought a Gold package quite a while ago, as soon as I had it confirmed that I could get the time off work. I had no idea who would be on the guest list, but wanted to get the most out of my several thousand mile trip to attend. Unfortunately last year family commitments meant I could not go for the Gold package and I really felt that I lost out on part of my usual con experience, and I was determined not to have a repeat this year. It was sheer luck for me that LL and ROC have since been announced as guests. Fuzz ***************************************************************************** A Friendship Forged by Fate to Endure Forever ***************************************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:35:18 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO >SHaron, > > Something I do not understand is receiving this notice today and gold > circle is sold out already. > > Can you explain this > > > I was thinking the same thing. > Hi, They started selling Gold seating at last year's convention and we sent out notices on Creation's Xena email mailing list a couple times since then saying Gold was available for purchase. Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:00:16 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO At 02:15 01/11/2002 -0500, Trek4u269@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/31/2002 5:29:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, >cjlnh@webtv.net writes: > > > > SHaron, > > > > Something I do not understand is receiving this notice today and gold > > circle is sold out already. > > > > Can you explain this > > > >I was thinking the same thing. Just gotta pay attention and be in early. Some darlin's I know bought their gold tix last year AT the convention itself. So the tix have been on sale for a looooooooooong time. And having been a gold ticket person - thanks to friends who bought them up front for me - they are absolutely worth it. Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:19:17 EST From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO In a message dated 11/1/2002 9:43:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, outback@creationent.com writes: > They started selling Gold seating at last year's convention and we sent > out notices on Creation's Xena email mailing list a couple times since > then saying Gold was available for purchase. > Sharon > My point was not that creation did anything underhanded.....it was that why not post to this list sooner about seating instead of waiting til now. That is all. I just hate feeling like I am only "invited" to the con Adter the gold seating hasd been alloted to preferred customers. At least with many other events (including sports) they make sure that all fans have an equal chance of getting the front row and best seating packages.......not just fan club, and fans that attended the previous con and had gold seating. That way different people have an opportunity to enjoy the best available packages not just the same people each con. And some others like myself will feel frustrated and just go on saturday and buy stuff, say hi to people, and then leave afterwards. It happens. I went for 1 day last con and was at another con on sunday and saw several xena fans that also got left out so decided to just 1 day attend and go to other cons and functions on friday and sunday. I also expect to see tickets on ebay from those that bought extras to make a profit. Just frustrated....this is like them putting world series tickets here (anaheim/pasadena) on sale and announcing it on a list and stating that only nosebleed was available. But in reality they announce it before they are on sale. I just hate feeling like I am a supplemental fan to a con just there to bolster attendance numbers and others were "special" due to money spent, past con gold seating, etc. (even though I have spent over 10,000 on xena merchandise thru creation) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:56:24 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO > My point was not that creation did anything underhanded.....it was that why > not post to this list sooner about seating instead of waiting til now. That > is all. I just hate feeling like I am only "invited" to the con Adter the > gold seating hasd been alloted to preferred customers. At least with many > other events (including sports) they make sure that all fans have an equal > chance of getting the front row and best seating packages.......not just fan > club, and fans that attended the previous con and had gold seating. That way > different people have an opportunity to enjoy the best available packages not > just the same people each con. And some others like myself will feel > frustrated and just go on saturday and buy stuff, say hi to people, and then > leave afterwards. It happens. I went for 1 day last con and was at another > con on sunday and saw several xena fans that also got left out so decided to > just 1 day attend and go to other cons and functions on friday and sunday. > I also expect to see tickets on ebay from those that bought extras to make a > profit. > > Just frustrated.... You know, I'm not sure I understand why you waited again to buy gold tickets until after it was too late since this happened to you last year also. But I do understand why it would frustrate you to screw up twice. The gold seating has been available for anybody to buy for months. There was plenty of Gold seating in June, which was when I bought my tickets. I was not going to be able to go in March which was the original date for this con. As soon as I heard on the lists that they date had been changed to Feb, I went and bought a ticket. And I knew the dates had changed because there were numerous notices posted on numerous lists from Xena fan club fans who ALWAYS pass on any juicy news the moment they get it. The Creation site has had notices up about the con for months also. You don't have to wait to be invited in order to buy gold tickets--there are always plenty left over after they sell the ones at the con. And there's plenty of notices all over the fandom discussing the latest news about the various cons and cast appearances in any venues. You just have to pay attention. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:18:56 -0500 From: Critter Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO > > You know, I'm not sure I understand why you waited again to buy gold > tickets until after it was too late since this happened to you last year > also. But I do understand why it would frustrate you to screw up twice. > > The gold seating has been available for anybody to buy for months. > There was plenty of Gold seating in June, which was when I bought my > tickets. > > I was not going to be able to go in March which was the original date for > this con. As soon as I heard on the lists that they date had been changed > to Feb, I went and bought a ticket. > > And I knew the dates had changed because there were numerous notices > posted on numerous lists from Xena fan club fans who ALWAYS pass on > any juicy news the moment they get it. The Creation site has had notices > up about the con for months also. > > You don't have to wait to be invited in order to buy gold tickets--there > are always plenty left over after they sell the ones at the con. And > there's plenty of notices all over the fandom discussing the latest news > about the various cons and cast appearances in any venues. You just have > to pay attention. > > KT Hi KT and gang, What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena news and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but Xenaverse is pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago and must have missed their comments on the subject. I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about Xena. Thanks, Critter who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses episodes ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 22:26:12 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO At 17:18 01/11/2002 -0500, Critter wrote: > > > > > And I knew the dates had changed because there were numerous notices > > posted on numerous lists from Xena fan club fans who ALWAYS pass on > > any juicy news the moment they get it. The Creation site has had notices > > up about the con for months also. > > > > You don't have to wait to be invited in order to buy gold tickets--there > > are always plenty left over after they sell the ones at the con. And > > there's plenty of notices all over the fandom discussing the latest news > > about the various cons and cast appearances in any venues. You just have > > to pay attention. > > > > KT > >Hi KT and gang, > >What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena news >and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but Xenaverse is >pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago and must have >missed their comments on the subject. > >I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about Xena. > >Thanks, > >Critter >who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses >episodes Ah - there's so many that Sharon posts Creation info too. She posts to Xenaverse, Chakram, Flawless for sure - I see others forward her notices to Xenanet (UK), New Xenaland - maybe Xenaguard too? Not that, I would like to stress, I belong to all these lists. Anymore. Exactly. That's definitely a bunch of lists around the Xena world. Sojourner - proud to be a member of KT and gang - or should that be KC and the gang or kool and the gang feeling a little bit 70's tonite. Let's Groove Tonight!!! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:47:40 -0500 From: Critter Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO > At 17:18 01/11/2002 -0500, Critter wrote: > >Hi KT and gang, > > > >What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena news > >and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but Xenaverse is > >pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago and must have > >missed their comments on the subject. > > > >I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about Xena. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Critter > >who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses > >episodes > > Ah - there's so many that Sharon posts Creation info too. She posts to > Xenaverse, Chakram, Flawless for sure - I see others forward her notices to > Xenanet (UK), New Xenaland - maybe Xenaguard too? > > Not that, I would like to stress, I belong to all these lists. Anymore. > Exactly. > > That's definitely a bunch of lists around the Xena world. > > Sojourner - proud to be a member of KT and gang - or should that be KC and > the gang or kool and the gang feeling a little bit 70's tonite. > > Let's Groove Tonight!!! LOL! Thanks for the info. I am a member of Flawless,too but am on digest and am sorry to say am waay behind on my reading. I probably missed the posts about the Con. The Xenagaurds are now BardsVillage, right? New Xenaland sounds interesting. Is that a private list or maybe a Yahoo group? I belong to a few private lists but some of them rarely talk about Xena any more. But I think this news will get things stirred up a bit. Critter ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:44:45 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO On Saturday 02 November 2002 11:18, Critter wrote: > > Hi KT and gang, > > What are you "lists" you are referring to that post all sorts of Xena news > and juicy gossip that is xena related? I belong to a few but Xenaverse is > pretty quiet. I just joined the merpups a little while ago and must have > missed their comments on the subject. > > I would love to know of other groups that are actually chatting about Xena. > > Thanks, > > Critter > who loves this group because it is the only one I know of that discusses > episodes And I thought it had just declined to Cheryl, lfe and me bickering about Gabby's place in the world Lists - you could try looking in Xena Online Resources (find it in Google, or if pressed I could search out the URL) which has a page of lists. The Whoosh list is moderately active, though as KT will tell you, half the time it's totally extraneous chitchat about OT matters, you need to have an active Delete key. Flawless is also fairly active, though it's officially a Lucy Lawless list, Xenastuff does inevitably crop up all the time. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:48:16 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO On Saturday 02 November 2002 11:47, Critter wrote: > > The Xenagaurds are now BardsVillage, right? I didn't know that. Must try a post to it and see what comes back. Xenaguard is pretty quiet, anyway. > > New Xenaland sounds interesting. Is that a private list or maybe a Yahoo > group? > NewXenaland is a Yahoo group, for Kiwi Xenites and friends (which means in practice anyone can join), but it's virtually silent at the moment. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 23:41:28 EST From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy and Renee at Pasadena INFO Hello sojourner@paradise.net.nz, In reference to your comment: h Just gotta pay attention and be in early. Some darlin's I h know bought their gold tix last year AT the convention h itself. That was one of my points. They bought tickets at last con so gold tickets were going to people based on attending the last convention. I order often and didnt get a letter or notice. I am not bitter...just pointing out that all xena fans are not on lists. ANd like the person I agreed with it was just a slap to announce the convention "after" the gold seating was gone. No biggie. The con isnt far from home so I can do a 1 day thing and shop. Just do not assume that majority of people that are interested in seeing the stars of xena are on these lists. You dont have to be on a list to be a fan. It isnt not paying attention...........it is just replying to the first post I saw here in months about an actual date, and guests for the con (and seeing gold was sold out....doh) Battle on.............xena and kool and the gang ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #301 **************************************