From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #293 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, October 25 2002 Volume 02 : Number 293 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Xena As Archetype ["Daniel T. Miller" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Seeds Of Faith [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack ["Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena As Archetype Excerpt from the article "How to Craft Compelling Characters" By Victoria Lynn Schmidt ************************************************************************* ********************** When you think of some characters, almost immediately a very real sense of who they are jumps out at you. Let's examine Luke Skywalker from "Star Wars," Dorothy Gale from "The Wizard of Oz," Captain Ahab from "Moby Dick" and Xena from "Xena: Warrior Princess". These are not bland one-dimensional characters but real people to whom we can relate. They evoke strong emotions in us; we want to be just like them or we want to completely opposite. The stories they inhabit are not what makes them memorable; what makes them memorable is the depth of their character, their three-dimensionality. Not every character has to be noble and perfect; Xena's dark side makes her complex, human and interesting, All of these characters embody a universal archetype which helps them to inhabit a strong character arc. Luke Skywalker can be seen in the Warrior archetype while Captain Ahab is seen in the King. Dorothy embodies the Maiden archetype, while Xena fits the Amazon perfectly. Although the characters are more than their archetypes, archetypes inspire the discoveries and details that make them interesting. ***************************************************************** Meant to post this way back in April. (I've been cleaning. ;~) Could barely decipher my own handwriting! I scribbled the relvent part of the article very quickly from the Borders magazines stand. The magazine was-- "Start Writing Now! " (April 2002) This magazine was a one-shot. I think from "Writer's Digest." Did a google and found Schmitt's book, "45 Master Characters: Mythic Models for Creating Original Characters" listed on bookstore and writing sites. Might be some Xena related quotes on those web pages. *************************************************************** The roots of a well-lived life lie in reading and in writing. --Elyssa Couvron *************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:15:15 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #291 In a message dated 10/23/2002 6:39:27 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: Ife wrote: > " Anyway, I think you're right on target in what you say about their > different approaches to free will (i.e., Gabrielle saw it for everyone, > whereas Xena > saw it for everyone unless they disagreed with her ). This gets to the > heart of much of Gabrielle's perceived inconsistency, as she had different > standards for different people. Xena could be so consistent because she so > often used her own standard (except where Gabrielle was concerned)." > > Now I am not critizing Xena for what she does. It comes from a very strong > protective instinctive. She has for most her life been in charge and it is > natural for her to command and to be obeyed. She has also experienced a > great deal of loss - Solan, Mi'lia, Lao Ma, Borias, And Lyceus. It is > natural for her to want to protect and she believes the only way to do this > is to take charge. Hence she goes after baby Hope despite Gabrielle's > objections, leaves behind in The Rhinegold, chases Gabrielle almost to the > Amazon happy hunting lands and probaly would have tried to rescue her from > there even if Gabby said her sacrifice was a willing one. It was in Legacy > however that you se this trait most explicitily demonstrated. Gabrielle > believes she should be punished but Xena is bound and determined to make > sure that doesn't happen. She doesn't care a whit about the greater good - > she lies and betrays to protect Gabrielle from everyon including Gabby > herself. Is Xena selfish - yes but she also right. Gabrielle, I'm sure > would have tried to save Xena also her approach would have been different - > she would have tried to pursuade or find loophole but not Xena she plows > ahead and will do things as she wills it. > Yes, it was clear to me that you weren't criticizing Xena, just simply calling it as you saw it. Xena's my girl, but I've always recognized that her "focus" has a downside in addition to being a defining strength. And I use "focus" to include her relentless determination, her concern for Gabrielle's well-being, her desire to do the honorable thing both because of her past and it because it was the "right" thing to do, and a singlemindedness that sometimes mowed down the trees in order to save the forest. I'm not sure that she was always "right," so much as she tried to make the best of bad situations. I can think of several situations (even as late as seasons 4-6) where she would've been content with achieving her short-term goal, even if it meant leaving what could be a mess long-term. What I admire is her willingness to be open to more than that, to listen to Gabrielle and make a seemingly idealistic solution into reality. I like to say that Gabrielle believed and Xena did it. Sometimes they switched or incorporated both believer and doer roles. I guess that's why they represent such a great team. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:04:05 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack I was watching the new PI series, Hack, on CBS last Fri. 10/18, and in the credits I noticed none other than Liz Friedman's name as the writer. ;) Strange to see her connected with another show other than Xena, for some reason.......I guess it's kinda like I was thinking to myself, "So she does straight shows, too??" ;) Also, I've got major CRS about this, but I also saw Adam Armus' (?) and Nora Kay Foster's names on another new show as writers, too: Adventure, Inc. or some other non-descript show.....;P At least the XWP writers are getting work post-Xena.....;) Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:46:15 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #291 Oooh. Nitpick coming up! :) On Thursday 24 October 2002 12:37, Cheryl Ande wrote: > It was in > Legacy however that you se this trait most explicitily demonstrated. > Gabrielle believes she should be punished but Xena is bound and determined > to make sure that doesn't happen. She doesn't care a whit about the > greater good - she lies and betrays to protect Gabrielle from everyon > including Gabby herself. Errrm, I'd strongly argue that Xena initially *was* concerned about the Greater Good, viz. the anti-Roman resistance, which is one of the two reasons she wanted Gabby to keep quiet about killing Desert Boy. (The other, as you've noted, was to save Gabby's neck). Both reasons pointed to the same action - blame DB on the Romans. It was Gabby who let her oversensitive conscience and desire for punishment override the Greater Good. As it was, Xena managed to defeat the Romans and save Gabby's neck both at the same time, but it was a close thing. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Jackie M. Young wrote: > Also, I've got major CRS about this, but I also saw Adam Armus' (?) and > Nora Kay Foster's names on another new show as writers, too: Adventure, > Inc. or some other non-descript show.....;P They wrote last night's "Birds of Prey", too. > At least the XWP writers are getting work post-Xena.....;) And a local NYC channel (Metro TV -- catchy name, eh?) showed "The Last Tattoo", a 1994 NZ production that had Elizabeth Hawthorne and Desmond Kelly in it. Lynn Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:41:06 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Seeds Of Faith wrote: > Oooh. Nitpick coming up! :) Go ahead make my day;-) > "Errrm, I'd strongly argue that Xena initially *was* concerned about the Greater Good, viz. the anti-Roman resistance, which is one of the two reasons she wanted Gabby to keep quiet about killing Desert Boy. (The other, as you've noted, was to save Gabby's neck). Both reasons pointed to the same action - blame DB on the Romans." Yeah it was agood plan until the bedouins "caught" the killer. That's what kicks Gabby's oversensitive concious into action. Even Xena was trying some fast talking to keep the bedouins from killing the wrong guy. Once an inncocent person was picked to die for Gabrielle's actions it was inevitable she would confess. Indeed it would have been completely out of character for either Xena and Gabielle to allow an innocent to die because of them "As it was, Xena managed to defeat the Romans and save Gabby's neck both at the same time, but it was a close thing." Well Xena may have defeated the Romans too but I really don't think he gave a damn at this point about the greater good or the bedouins' war with Rome. Her primary goal at this point was saving Gabby and defeating the Romans played into this to some extenet. If Xena could hand the bedouins avictory then they might be less likely to pursue their venegence against Gabrielle (this is what happened in fact). > Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:35:15 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Seeds Of Faith In a message dated 10/24/2002 9:41:37 AM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: cr said: > "As it was, Xena managed to defeat the Romans > and save Gabby's neck both at the same time, but it was a close thing." > > Well Xena may have defeated the Romans too but I really don't think he gave > a > damn at this point about the greater good or the bedouins' war with Rome. > Her > primary goal at this point was saving Gabby and defeating the Romans played > into this to some extenet. If Xena could hand the bedouins avictory then > they > might be less likely to pursue their venegence against Gabrielle (this is > what > happened in fact). > I think you're both right, with the added angle that I think Xena was also trying in her own way to respect Gabrielle's wishes. To me the greater good included not killing the desert folks simply to rescue Gabs, which Xena could've tried to do if all she cared about was Gabrielle's physical well being. She probably would've been successful, except she couldn't count on Gabs going along with that. Forcing the issue as she did, by using the Roman attack, allowed her to take the decision away from Gabs in a way that left Gabs' honor intact, saved her, *and* helped defeat the Romans. Brilliant, if convenient. I realize this ep was set up to put both G&X in this moral dilemma. However, I wondered how different it would be if Xena had been the one to accidentally kill DB. Would they have made an exception because the legend suggested by G's scrolls was of a Xena who could do no wrong, who obviously must have had a very good reason to mistake DB for the enemy? I could certainly see Xena acknowledging what she had done, without any angst about letting herself be executed. She'd have looked them in the eye and made it clear that the best they could do was move on from there. To me, everything revolved around G's belief that she deserved punishment, not only because she took a life, but because she attributed her mistake to her shortcomings as a warrior. IOW, she acted like a guilty person, whereas Xena would not have. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:17:47 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack >At least the XWP writers are getting work post-Xena.....;) Well, that Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Gaston Orci are the producers of Alias (although Alex is now credited as Alex Kurtzman-Counter) as well having written a few eps. :) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:33:57 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] O.T. Zena [sic] kidnapped?? From CNN.com. A Swazi (Southern Africa) girl named Zena in a royal court case. I have never heard of a person called Xena (or Zena) before. Boeotian Swazi king in kidnap charge Thursday, October 24, 2002 Posted: 10:59 AM EDT (1459 GMT) MBABANE, Swaziland (Reuters) -- A future mother-in-law can be difficult -- even for a king -- as Swaziland's monarch is finding out in a landmark test case this week. A distraught mother alleges King Mswati III, 34, had her 18-year-old daughter abducted two weeks ago to become his 12th wife and is demanding the palace hand her back. Observers said on Thursday they expected the dispute would become an historic test of the king's absolute power over his tiny kingdom -- to drag on for a month. "I think it's a test case against the royalty," Prince Mfanasibili Dlamini told Reuters. "I think they want to draw as much publicity as they can to ridicule the kingdom and its customs," said Dlamini, who helped to run the country between the death of Mswati's father and the accession of the king to the throne in 1986. Traditional leaders swathed in brightly-coloured cloth mixed with students and activists in the packed court overlooking the capital, Mbabane, where the case is being heard. Lindiwe Dlamini's daughter, Zena, has not been seen in public since palace aides snatched her from school two weeks ago. She wants her daughter back, insisting she was taken without parental consent. But court officials said they want to hear Zena's side of the story. Women in land-locked Swaziland cannot own property or enter into legal contracts. Human rights groups hope the trial will highlight their plight. 'Gilded cage' The girl might be in a "gilded cage," Chief Justice Stanley Sapire told the court on Thursday, but he added it was possible she didn't want to be in that cage. He suggested that a custodian be appointed to meet the girl -- who had been due to sit exams when she was taken -- and find out her feelings. But numerous attempts to produce the girl or hear her version of events have been thwarted. A lawyer for Zena's mother said armed police earlier this week had blocked the serving of papers which demanded the Swazi royal household explain why Zena should not be released. Mandla Mkhwanazi, an assistant to the advocate representing the mother, said he had tried to pin papers on the door of the royal guesthouse where the girl is being kept but was stopped by four armed police. "As I was leaving, they took the papers from the gate and threw them in the car," Mkhwanazi told Reuters. The court heard last week that Mswati noticed Zena at a traditional reed dance ceremony last month. The king can choose a new wife every year from among thousands of virgins who parade at the ceremony. Observers say that in the past, palace representatives met the families of potential queens to discuss a wedding. But under British-educated Mswati's rule, this practice has been substituted by the unannounced removal of teenage girls from their schools without their parents knowledge or consent. Prince Dlamini insisted no woman had ever agreed to be the king's bride unwillingly. "The king cannot take anybody against their will, never," he said. Copyright 2002 Reuters. All rights ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:41:23 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack >I was watching the new PI series, Hack, on CBS last Fri. 10/18, and in >the credits I noticed none other than Liz Friedman's name as the writer. I knew that Ms. Friedman had various executive positions on X:WP, but did she also write for it? Neither the names 'Liz' nor 'Friedman' are uncommon, so this might not have been "our" Liz Friedman. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:03:09 -0600 From: "abqbeach" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Friedman on Hack > >I was watching the new PI series, Hack, on CBS last Fri. 10/18, and in > >the credits I noticed none other than Liz Friedman's name as the writer. > > I knew that Ms. Friedman had various executive positions on X:WP, but did > she also write for it? Neither the names 'Liz' nor 'Friedman' are > uncommon, so this might not have been "our" Liz Friedman. Yep, it's her. Liz was recently featured, with photo, in an Advocate article on gays and lesbians in Hollywood. Her roles on Xena were mentioned, especially in juxtaposition to the more traditional Hack. The rest of the writers there are men, but, to paraphrase, she said she fits in just fine. "Our mutual love of breasts is a bonding thing." angie in NM ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:09:15 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] O.T. Zena [sic] kidnapped?? Boetian mentioned never hearing of a person named Zina or Xena before.... I was at a company gathering earlier this week and our Sr. Vice President of our International division was there. I have known him for many years and he asked me if I wanted to see pictures of his grandchildren. Naturally, I said yes and the first few pictures were of his youngest granddaughter, less than a year old, with the bluest eyes. I don't know why I asked but I did ask him what her name was. When he said "Xena" I replied, with a Z? He said no an X . I thought it was purely coincidental, but decided to continue the comeback inquiring...."as in Xena, Warrior Princess"? He said yes, exactly!! It was his daughter's favorite show / character so she named her XENA!! So the Warrior Princess still lives! Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:37:56 EDT From: Junejanu@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] O.T. Zena [sic] kidnapped?? Well, there is a columnist for the Boston Herald who has referred to her niece, Xena, in her column. And since the niece is 14 years old, she pre-dates the Warrior Princess (TV version). OTOH, there is a little black dog in my neighborhood which has been known to escape her owner. Who then pursues her down the sidewalk calling 'Xena, Xena!' June In a message dated 10/24/02 7:34:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KLOSSNER9@aol.com writes: > Subj:[chakram-refugees] O.T. Zena [sic] kidnapped?? > Date:10/24/02 7:34:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com > Sender: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org > To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org > > > > > From CNN.com. A Swazi (Southern Africa) girl named Zena in a royal > court case. I have never heard of a person called Xena (or Zena) before. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #293 **************************************