From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #292 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, October 24 2002 Volume 02 : Number 292 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #291 ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 23 October 2002 04:36, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > cr wrote: > > "I liked that fight on the bridge. IIRC, Xena > seemed to be enjoying it. And I liked the little extra detail that after > she cut the bridge, there were a couple of soldiers dangling from the > wreckage and their friends were > helping them climb back up. Nice touch of > verisimilitude there." > > There is also a wonderful irony to the scene. Xena is fighting Ares's army > just as Eli is convincing Gabrielle to allow him to face Ares. Xena is > fighting like hell to save Eli and Eli is purposely allowing himself to be > killed. No wonder she was a bit taken aback when she got back to the village. All that effort for nothing. Just as well she enjoyed it. > > "... and ten thousand Xenafans cheer the War God on... :) > > OK, so it all depends if you like Eli or not...." > > Alas first a Gabbasher and now an Elibasher - your perfidity knows no > bounds does it? ;-) Yeah, perfectly perversely perfidious, that's me. ;) And I don't like Homer - umm, sorry, wrong, Virgil, that's it! - I don't like Virgil, either. :) > "The way I saw it, Xena was almost intending to > comfort Gabby when she said > "You defended him, didn't you?", expecting the > answer to be a 'Yes'. And > she was surprised when Gabby didn't answer, > which is why she asked again rather more sharply, and Gabby, instead of > explaining, flew off the handle." > > Well Gabby does try to explain but Xena can't accept it. Gabby however > flies off the handle because is angry with herself more than angry with > Xena. Gabrielle feels a lot of guilt for Eli's death. Yes, I realise that was the reason. But Gabby flew off the handle before she even tried to explain, I think. I thought she was a bit short with Xena, not t > > "Mega YAXI here. Quite aside from being an > all-new property of the Dagger of > Helios (and yet another Only Way to Kill a > God), it's the *wrong dagger*. > Doubtless the property department had the > 'Dagger of Helios' listed as > 'curved dagger' and someone picked the wrong > curved dagger.... > > Yeah I agree. Wasn't the Dagger of Helios in The Quest too. That's the one... > Anyway I > don't know why Callisto didn't just conjuror up the Hines Blood dagger. > Doesn't she know where that is? You're quite right, not only was the Dagger of Helios rather ad hoc, it was also unnecessary - they certainly could have used the Hinds Blood Dagger. Would have been much more consistent and economical. > "I couldn't credit that either. Gabby > defeating Ares? Where did she get that good so suddenly? OK, maybe if > we'd seen the cut scene with Ares teaching her, it might have helped a > little." > > I think the missing scenes would have helped a lot. It might have > explained Gabrielle's motivation better or explained why she thought she > could fight Ares. But to be frank no one should ever try to fight Ares - > he is a god and can't be defeated but never seems to stop anyone (and if it > did there wouldn't musch of a episode).Perhaps Gabrielle never thought she > could defeat Ares but was just determined to resist him for the greater > good. Well, she was doing a pretty good job of it, anyway. > "Well, he was a really obnoxious-looking > character and he had this *really* > offensive hat... ;-)" > > Yes he was a rather odd choice for Ares priest - not very impressive. I > don't quite know what the priest to the God of War should be like but that > isn't it. Obviously Ares wasn't impressed with him either. (I don't > believe that in ancient Greece Ares had temples or a priesthood - he wasn't > highly thought of as a god - Athenia was of course the preferred Goddess of > War) That might account for her being so superior and snooty in Motherhood.... OTOH, Dahak certainly seemed to think Ares was worth cultivating. > > "... so howcome the God of war didn't lose his > powers? (Like in Ten Little > Warlords). Or was it just his no 2 sword > that he used for everyday > Eli-slaughtering, and his *real* sword was safe > in a vault somewhere?" > > Ares isn't stupid I sure the godhhood sword is safely tucked away in that > secure vault. Well, he had one big warning, didn't he - from Sisyphus. > > "Unlike you, I was disappointed in this ep (the > death of Eli notwithstanding ;) The biggest disappointment was > Callisto. Angel Callisto is just not even a pale shadow of her delightful > evil self. I was so hoping that a > sinister streak would show through the > goodness, but it never did. RIP, Goddess of Napalm and Rockslides." > > Well I am more fond of Angel Callisto than you. I don't have trouble with > her goodness per se but I was just a bit disturbed by her willingness to > serve her new god - Callisto was never very pliable. I still find it > interesting that Callisto is serving a god and Eli is preaching freedom > from the gods. One wonders if Eli isn't being used by Callisto's god also. > ELi never seemed interested in substituting a new religion for the old. I wouldn't be at all surprised. Michael's god (I prefer that to 'Callisto's god' ;) seems to have used anybody convenient - certainly Eve and Xena. Or Michael used them on his boss's behalf. Oh yeah, and Lucifer... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:37:58 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #291 Ife wrote: " I always liked that Gabrielle actually listened to people -- to their needs, rather than imposing her own. True, in her earlier days she had a hard time hearing that things might not be as she wanted them to be, but she eventually accepted what was real to them. " Gabrielle learned this the hard way. In The Debt she did try to impose her own view point and tried to over-ride another's judgement and it nearly ended in disaster. I think after that she became more cauticious about imposing her will on others. " Anyway, I think you're right on target in what you say about their different approaches to free will (i.e., Gabrielle saw it for everyone, whereas Xena saw it for everyone unless they disagreed with her ). This gets to the heart of much of Gabrielle's perceived inconsistency, as she had different standards for different people. Xena could be so consistent because she so often used her own standard (except where Gabrielle was concerned)." Now I am not critizing Xena for what she does. It comes from a very strong protective instinctive. She has for most her life been in charge and it is natural for her to command and to be obeyed. She has also experienced a great deal of loss - Solan, Mi'lia, Lao Ma, Borias, And Lyceus. It is natural for her to want to protect and she believes the only way to do this is to take charge. Hence she goes after baby Hope despite Gabrielle's objections, leaves behind in The Rhinegold, chases Gabrielle almost to the Amazon happy hunting lands and probaly would have tried to rescue her from there even if Gabby said her sacrifice was a willing one. It was in Legacy however that you se this trait most explicitily demonstrated. Gabrielle believes she should be punished but Xena is bound and determined to make sure that doesn't happen. She doesn't care a whit about the greater good - she lies and betrays to protect Gabrielle from everyon including Gabby herself. Is Xena selfish - yes but she also right. Gabrielle, I'm sure would have tried to save Xena also her approach would have been different - she would have tried to pursuade or find loophole but not Xena she plows ahead and will do things as she wills it. Cheryl ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #292 **************************************