From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #285 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, October 15 2002 Volume 02 : Number 285 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 14 October 2002 15:58, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > > I gather this episode was on of the more problematic ones for the Xena > staff. Steven Sears once again had his name removed from his script because > of the extensive rewrites and ROC actually forced a script change. Having > said all this I liked this episode. No great shakes as story telling goes > but enjoyable. Well, I liked it about the same as Purity (which I guess is not surprising since they're really a two-parter). > There were a number things I liked. In the opening scenes I rather like a > very hungry Gabrielle and Joxer being frustrated by Xena's Tao power > turning all their prospective meals into stone ( although this did > telegraph the episode's end too much). Reminded me of In Sickness and in Hell, for some reason. Probably the bunnies. I liked Joxer's sarcastic remark that "Maybe if you *tried* to turn them to stone, they'd cook". > Then the double headed ghosts of > Ming Tien and Pao Ssu was rather cool even if it did reminded me of a > vaudeville act where some guy would dress up as half man and half woman and > dance with himself. I thought Ming Tien was once again interesting as a > villain who at once hates Xena but admires her as a warrior. In the scene > where Xena comes out to face Khan's army alone Ming says that Xena is > facing her death as true warrior and he says it with pride and admiration. > The rockets bouncing off Xena's shield was also cool. Yes, I thought that was a really nice bit of special FX. And I didn't mind at all that they showed it several times - if it's cool enough, it'll bear repeating. > Gabrielle also gets an almost boyfriend, Lin Qi (Anthony Wong). Lin Qi > should be congratulated in surviving his encounter with Gabby perhaps > because his scripted kiss never took place. Apparently ROC felt > uncomfortable with the romance because she felt there wasn't enough passion > between the characters. I thing ROC felt badly about this because I believe > I read that she took some acting classes because of this. I think however > she probably instinctively knew that it wasn't in Gabrielle's character to > have a casual fling with someone she hardly knows. Gabrielle is very > serious about love and I think she would have to know someone better than > she knew Lin Qi to embark on a romance with him. Perhaps if he had been > introduced in Purity a romance might have made more plausible. Lin Qi as a > character is certainly the type of guy Gabrielle might be attracted to - > sensitive and caring and a significantly better warrior than Perdy. > Perhaps ROC was also perceptive enough to know that a romance with Lin Qi > would send both the subtext fans and the Joxer fans into apoplexy To quote the Sovereign - "So, what's the downside?" ;-) Actually, other than their common interest in (or against) Lin Qi, those two sets of fans are in opposition so far as Gabby's romantic interests are concerned. I think Gabby might be a bit annoyed at having her personal life dictated by the demands of the fans. And we all know what she does when told to do something she doesn't like ;) > thus she saved their lives by nixing the romance. > Then at the end of the > episode he was bragging about how many soldiers he killed and although I > could see Joxer bragging about being brave in battle I don't think he would > brag about killing people in such a bloody way (it was however pretty > amusing, out of character, but amusing). I thought it was in slightly bad taste, actually. And a bit out of characer even for Joxer. > An issue that was brought up when was this episode first aired was that > Xena was responsible for killing 100,000 soldiers and it is never > addressed. Reading a bit of the commentary on Whoosh it seems Rob Tapert > wanted to address this more directly. Certainly it seems that the people > around Xena and Xena herself would be astounded that she could do this and > perhaps a little frightened of this kind of power. Tapert wanted Xena to > confront the paradox that here she was woman about to give life to a baby > yet she has just killed thousands. Instead it is simply fluffed off with > the idea that she did it to save the people she loved. I found the 100,000 a bit over the top, simply because I doubt wherther an army would or could have been that size in those days. The logistics would have killed it, I think. 10,000 would have been more credible. (I have no actual knowledge of the size of ancient armies, I'm guessing). But as for killing them all, well, they were all volunteers, not conscripts, and as such, they took the risk of getting killed in battle. And it's not as if they were fighting to defend their country, they signed up for conquest. And each and every one of them was prepared to kill Xena, fair enough if Xena killed them. So while I found that phrase about love killing people (or whatever it was **) particularly awkward and rather obscure, I don't have a problem with the fact that she killed them. If she hadn't, they would have started on the civilians. > This episode also produced two pretty good bloopers. One was a joke Lucy > played on Ted when she grabbed him and gave a big old kiss and the chased > after furiously blushing Ted holding her very pregnant stomach yelling " > Come back her Joxer, you bastard." The other happened when ROC and Anthony > Wong had a net dropped on them when they were trying to blow up Khan's > ammunition tent. ROC is her struggle actually poked head through a large > whole in the net - in fact when you watch the scene you can see ROC trying > very hard to avoid that same hole. There was a major YAXI there I think. Xena is supposed to have put out the powder trail by magically sucking all the air out of the tent. (**) Well, there are several problems with this (even if, as I do, one accepts the 'magic' involved, which is I suppose no greater than the other magic in the ep). I could easily accept that the breeze might have blown the powder away, but that's not what they showed. They showed it going out due to lack of air. Hey fellas, black powder (like all normal explosives) doesn't *need* air, it contains its own oxidising supply, that's why it's an explosive. It'll work just fine in a vacuum. Secondly, even if black powder could be put out by lack of air, what would the vacuum required do to Gabby and Lin Qi? I believe people can survive for a few seconds in a vacuum before really nasty things start to happen to them, but Gabs and LQ seemed to hardly even notice any side-effects. (** Unfortunately, due to one of my hard drives crashing, I can't consult the transcripts so I'm going from memory here. Very frustrating). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:26:04 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> "Actually, other than their common interest in (or against) Lin Qi, those two sets of fans are in opposition so far as Gabby's romantic interests are concerned. I think Gabby might be a bit annoyed at having her personal life dictated by the demands of the fans. And we all know what she does when told to do something she doesn't like ;)" Although I am a suntext fan and believer - I do find it amusing to think of the two very opposite camps hating Lin Qi equally with Gabrielle caught in the middle of the two camps. I am afraid that if I wasn't a subtextor I would be rooting for Lin Qi over Joxer. "I thought it was in slightly bad taste, actually. And a bit out of characer even for Joxer." Yeah I guess it was bad taste but still funny. " So while I found that phrase about love killing people (or whatever it was **) particularly awkward and rather obscure, I don't have a problem with the fact that she killed them. If she hadn't, they would have started on the civilians. " Actually I don't think she any choice in killing them because as it was stated in the episode they all had the secret of the black powder so they all had to die to keep the secret. Now why this black powder has to be kept secret is beyond me. We've seen the Greeks and Romans blow things up in A Good Day and Past Imperfect so why black powder is more dangerous than Greek fire in the context of Xenaverse is a mystery to me. "There was a major YAXI there I think. Xena is supposed to have put out the powder trail by magically sucking all the air out of the tent. (**) ... Hey fellas, black powder (like all normal explosives) doesn't *need* air, it contains its own oxidising supply, that's why it's an explosive. It'll work just fine in a vacuum." Well I didn't know that so maybe the writers didn't either. "Secondly, even if black powder could be put out by lack of air, what would the vacuum required do to Gabby and Lin Qi? I believe people can survive for a few seconds in a vacuum before really nasty things start to happen to them, but Gabs and LQ seemed to hardly even notice any side-effects. " I think your organs collapse in a vacum so yes Gabby and Lin Qi might not have survived the vacum and besides to create a vacum I think you need an air tight container which a tent isn't. So a nice stiff breeze would have been better. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:21:27 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide sexiest TV Guide, week of Sept. 28-Oct. 4, had a feature listing the "50 Sexiest Stars of All Time" on TV. It was nice that Diana Rigg was tied for no. 1, but Lucy Lawless was not listed at all. I doubt that would have happened a few years ago. Actually, a few years ago TV Guide listed Xena as one of the most interesting characters on TV. Now she's not even sexy. I'm afraid it means the show has dwindled to insignificance in the eyes of mainstream TV journalists. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #285 **************************************