From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #266 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, September 26 2002 Volume 02 : Number 266 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Americe [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Chakram the real one [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] LOL from O2 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] RE: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice ["Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Americe On Wednesday 25 September 2002 01:36, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > Ife wrote: > > "To me, Amarice was only a step above Tara -- another wannabe who had guts > and determination, but not the discipline or wisdom they could learn from > X&G. They were both "pretenders" who had the good sense to finally listen > to those who could teach them something -- particularly humility." > > Oh I think you are a little hard on Americe. She is much more than a > wannabe - she is very good warrior and if she doesn't qualify to be an > Amazon I don't know who would. Yes she does lack discipline and she has > the arrogance of youth but that's why both Xena and Gabrielle would have > made good mentors for her. Thanks, Cheryl. For once I agree with you more than I agree with lfe. cr ... framed autographed copies of this statement are available from CR Enterprises for a small fee.... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:33:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice On Wednesday 25 September 2002 05:38, Xena Torres wrote: > >"To me, Amarice was only a step above Tara -- another wannabe who had > > >guts and determination, but not the discipline or wisdom > > Yeah but Tara was a brawler and not a warrior. Amarice was a fighter and > had the skill to be a warrior some day. She was learning from Xena and I'll > bet she learned much from the Northern Amazons (who are all about the > discipline and the wisdom) and was most likely a warrior at the time of her > death. If she hadn't been killed, I believe she could have been a great > warrior. She wanted to learn from Xena and follow her example after all > ("Fallen Angel"). She KNEW that she would never have the skill or be as > wise, but she knew she could do good. Thanks XT! Welcome to the Amarice Supporters' Club cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:24:14 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Chakram the real one On Wednesday 25 September 2002 04:07, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > --- cr wrote: > > But of course that's not the biggest YAXI about that > > ep, the > > > dealer also sold Alti a hair each from Gabs and > > Xena. A hair? After Friend in > > > Need? Maybe Gabby was the sentimental sort and > > saved a lock of Xena's hair > > > when she cremated her body..... > > Hah. Actually I think that dealer was continuing the > time-honored, and sadly almost lost tradition of the > reliquary. In Medieval times, saintly relics were a > very lucrative trade, with all sorts of charlatanism > involved. My personal favorite relics include the two > heads of John the Baptist (one each in monasteries on > opposite ends of the European continent) and the skull > of the Christ child. (!) Not to mention, if all the > slivers of the True Cross were put together, you could > build yourself a very large log house. > > So with all that history behind him, a dealer selling > the hair of a cremated individual really isn't that > much of a stretch. > > (Look Mom, I actually used my Medieval Studies degree > for something! :}) > > Meredith > meth@smoe.org > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! > http://sbc.yahoo.com Oh, I'd agree entirely but for one thing - the clones that Alti made from the hairs turned out genuine. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:11:32 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 25 September 2002 01:49, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:04:45 +1200 cr wrote: > > > "What was more disconcerting was, *how* did she > know how to do it? Had she been taking warrior lessons in secret all the > time she was pretending > to follow the Way of Peace? (That's not a > serious suggestion btw). I think Gabs' instant ability constitutes a > rather large YAGI." > > Well I thought of that too but I figure she picked-up a few pointers from > Xena over the years just by observation. Perhaps some that Archangel mojo > remind in Gabrielle when she was broght back to life. She was a pretty > fast learner with the staff maybe sais come with an instruction scroll or > she has quick demonstration at the sai shop. Well, none of those sound *really* convincing but then it's in the nature of YAXIs (and YAGIs) to be incapable of easy explanantion I guess. They're probably the best that can be done. > "Errrm, excuse me, *whose* sidekick? You just > "put that in to get us Xenafans going, didn't you? ;-)" > > Uhm actually no. Practically Xena is out of commission for the first half > the season so Gabrielle has to go on a lot of missions and pick various > helpers - Joxer or that Chinese guy. Americe would served that function. > More than that I think it would have been funny seeing Gabby cope with an > irratating redhead sidekick. OK, I see the point you're making. Whether Amarice would have accepted being sidekick to Gabrielle is, of course, another matter. ;) But then, Gabby in earlier seasons rarely did what Xena told her to, either. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:34:34 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice On Wednesday 25 September 2002 09:33, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/02 12:38:34 PM Central Daylight Time, > xenatorres@hotmail.com writes: > > << >"To me, Amarice was only a step above Tara -- another wannabe who had > > >guts > > > >and determination, but not the discipline or wisdom > > Yeah but Tara was a brawler and not a warrior. Amarice was a fighter and > had the skill to be a warrior some day. >> > > LOL! Wow, poor Tara sure doesn't seem to have many fans. Hey, I *like* Tara. (And the fact that she mightily pissed off all the Gabfans has only a very little to do with it ) I thought she was basically well-intentioned but just thoroughly confused. > I agree that > Tara was not and might never be a warrior. I also believe Amarice had > self-respect that Tara lacked. I was really looking at where both of them > were when they met X&G, at the extent to which either could've progressed > as she did without tutelage from X&G. While each needed to learn different > lessons, I personally don't think they would've learned those lessons at > that age on their own. I believe both might've ended up making a tragic > mistake or getting killed. Yes, agree about the getting killed bit. > The way I made my comment suggests I didn't see much in either Tara or > Amarice. I didn't mean it that way. I felt both had potential and needed > X&G's guidance to realize some of that potential before it was too late. I > just didn't see (as I thought CR was saying) that Amarice had or would've > necessarily done that on her own. Yes, I definitely was saying that IMO Amarice could have made it on her own. With the proviso, "if she didn't get herself killed first". However, if she did get herself killed, I think it would have been an honourable death, whereas (though I like Tara) I think hers might have been a disreputable one. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:25:17 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] LOL from O2 On Wednesday 25 September 2002 09:04, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > As I said in response to Cheryl, I do believe Amarice's goals were loftier > than Tara's. The latter basically hitched her little wagon to anyone she > thought was strong and could take what they needed to survive and conquer. > I'm not sure that wanting to be Xena's sidekick was any more than that > initially. I'm also not sure Amarice would've been more than an > unpredictable, brash fighter without our girls' help. She was mighty quick > to dismiss nearly all the wisdom that inolved *thinking,* not just acting > or reacting physically. However, I give both of them credit for letting go > of their preconceptions and being open to learning how to be more positive > contributors in a social context. I think Amarice was a bit better than that... IIRC, after her first gaffe in Endgame, she thereafter proved pretty reliable. I don't recall any big mistakes she made after that. (Unlike Gabby, I might add, who took a long time to learn... ) She might have professed to prefer action to words, but I think she was a pretty shrewd fighter - when she wasn't being impulsive ;) For example, when Xena dropped the chacky at the entrance to the temple in Chakram, it was Amarice who had the presence of mind to grab it. (I'll leave out Animal Attraction where *everyone* had a major loss of IQ...) But I think we'll have to agree to disagree (mildly) on Amarice. > < one get to be an Amazon? Did one have to be born one? (Umm, if the > Amazons had no men, where did little Amazons come from? Never mind). > To put it another way, surely Amarice could have applied to join a tribe; > and > with her enthusiasm and fighting abilities, I think she would have met the > requirements easily enough.>> > > Sure, once she accepted that this sometimes meant following the orders of > those with more experience, plus not taking things into her own hands. I'm > not speaking of fighting ability, but the maturity to see benefits in what > real Amazons had to offer, even when she might disagree. The question > might be whether *she* would've wanted to stay with the Amazons, had she > not first been primed by her contact with X&G. Well, one has to ask whether the average young Amazon would have been any wiser than Amarice? I do rather doubt it. Varia reached the stage of Amazon Chief and (IMO) showed no more maturity or judgement, if as much, as Amarice. > > Umm, no, *I* said it was 'charity'. I think Amarice appreciated it in the > spirit it was intended. I'm not 'running down' Gabby's actions, just > disappointed that Amarice wasn't given the chance to prove that she was a > worthy Amazon.>> > > Hmmm. I thought she did that anyway -- not just in her ability and > courage, but by sublimating her own brashness to the larger goals of the > Amazons. When *she* decided to stay with the Northern Amazons, that said to > me that she was probably ready. Again, I saw that as a mutual acceptance. > As an observor, I certainly felt she'd proven her worthiness. > > -- Ife I just saw her abrupt dismissal by the 'old bat in the cave' (my phrase! :) as unduly harsh, I would have liked to see Amarice prove her wrong. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:13:10 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> wrote: > > OK, I see the point you're making. Whether > Amarice would have accepted > being sidekick to Gabrielle is, of course, > another matter. ;) > But then, Gabby in earlier seasons rarely did > what Xena told her to, either. > Eariler seasons! Remember in The Ring when Gabrielle charges after Xena into the cave and Xena says: "I told you stay behind!" Gabby answers: "You know I never listen." That's one of my favorite lines. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:28:01 +0100 From: "Ann Reddecliffe" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice Amarice was a fighter and > had the skill to be a warrior some day. She was learning from Xena and I'll > bet she learned much from the Northern Amazons (who are all about the > discipline and the wisdom) and was most likely a warrior at the time of her > death. >Thanks XT! Welcome to the Amarice Supporters' Club I have to be counted in that group as well. Amarice was irritating at first and I was not happy to see her reappear, but she definitely grew on me - as she grew herself. The warrior who stayed with the Northern Amazons was not a fantasy wannabe anymore - she was what she wanted to be. She had successfully reinvented herself and that made her a good example of the positive message that I, for one, took from the show - that everyone can change and grow and become a better person if we want to. She was now able to take responsibility and think through the consequences of her actions, not just "kick butt". Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:34:11 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] question for sharon Sharon, would you mind please answering a xena question? did lucy lawless write the lullabye that she sings for eve? ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:06:13 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Amarice In a message dated 9/24/2002 11:02:04 PM Central Daylight Time, xenatorres@hotmail.com writes: > I LOVE Shiri but Tara's not high on my list. She's a bit whiney. I thought > she was funny and she did grow on me a little more in "A Tale of Two Muses," > > but my first impressions of her weren't all that high. I liked everything > except when she got all whiney. Yeah, but the whining sure did work on our gals. That Tara certainly knew how to "play" them, kind of like Callisto and Njara. Hmmm, maybe there was a scroll out there called "How To Win X&G and Beat Them With Their Own Stuff." Or, perhaps their nemeses read fanfic? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:06:26 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Americe In a message dated 9/25/2002 1:17:38 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Wednesday 25 September 2002 01:36, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > > Ife wrote: > > > > "To me, Amarice was only a step above Tara -- another wannabe who had guts > > and determination, but not the discipline or wisdom they could learn from > > X&G. They were both "pretenders" who had the good sense to finally listen > > to those who could teach them something -- particularly humility." > > > > Oh I think you are a little hard on Americe. She is much more than a > > wannabe - she is very good warrior and if she doesn't qualify to be an > > Amazon I don't know who would. Yes she does lack discipline and she has > > the arrogance of youth but that's why both Xena and Gabrielle would have > > made good mentors for her. > > Thanks, Cheryl. For once I agree with you more than I agree with lfe. > > We all make mistakes, Grasshopper. But not to worry, as I also agree with Cheryl's statement. I was disagreeing with your suggestion that Amarice might not have needed X&G's mentorship to gain the wisdom she did. Again, I wasn't questioning whether the Amazons would've accepted her. I was questioning whether she would've accepted being an Amazon (e.g., rules and traditions she didn't like). Regardless of how much further along she was than Tara, I'm not sure she would've committed to living as a *real* (rather than fantasy) Amazon without X&G. Nor might she have learned how to be a well-rounded warrior who understood how the heart and mind could help her become a great warrior. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #266 **************************************