From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #255 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, September 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 255 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: End Game [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY ["H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: End Game On Sunday 15 September 2002 06:39, Cheryl Ande wrote: > CherylA wrote: > > " As Hanumen said it is very bad when some > one is stuck between two paths and Gabrielle is at this point stuck > between her abhorrence of violence and her attraction to it. " > > > cr wrote: > > "Well, rather than 'attraction', I would have said 'obligation' as Amazon > Queen. But yes, she's stuck." > > No when I wrote attraction to violence I meant attraction but in the > broader picture than just End Game. OK, because in Endgame I don't think it shows up all that much. Over the series, though, yes there are signs of it. > I believe Gabrielle finds Xena's > violent world very attractive and has never quite come to terms with its > attraction. There is a part of her that is repulsed by the fighting and > bloodshed but there is another which finds her life with Xena exciting and > even fulfilling. Well, she did stick around Xena and she was hard to shift. She was certainly attracted to the supposed glamour and adventure of the Warrior Princess's life - which of course derives in large part from violence. And while in earlier seasons she just had her staff and wasn't killing anyone, she still used to complain if Xena didn't let her clobber her share of ruffians. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:28:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four Whoo! KT lurks... and lurks... and lurks, and just when we think she's gone away forever, she suddenly bursts forth with a massive post full of meaty stuff.... ;-) (mucho snippo follows) On Sunday 15 September 2002 10:28, KTL wrote: > Well I've been reading the posts on season four. And got so intrigued with > them that I actually sat down and watched a whole slew of season four eps > over the last week. But not in order, which was an interesting way to do > it. I started with the Way, and as things in that ep struck me, I picked > an earlier one to see how it had related to Xena's > whole-season-long-soul-searching arc that reached its climax in the Way. > And of course, while watching the earlier one, I then saw things in it > that had to be also checked out from an even earlier ep. Interesting way to do it. I usually start with Sin Trade.... and then have to re-watch Sin Trade because I missed some little details the first time through... and then have to watch it again to pick up on the bits I really really liked.... somehow or other, by the time I've finished doing that, there's only time left for a quick look through Endgame and Ides before I have to return to Real Life (TM). One thing though, watching it like that, it could qualify as my favourite season instead of near the bottom > I used to say that I didn't like season four. Certainly, while it was > first spinning out, I didn't care very much for it at all. It was far too > Gabrielle centered for me and I'm just not that interested in Gabrielle's > story. It wasn't until the season had ended that I suddenly realized that > what we actually had had was a parallel storyline. I don't think anyone's drawn attention to this before, certainly not prominently enough to register itself on the collective consciousness. Interesting. > Certainly Evil Xena never worried about the rules. Evil Xena took any > right she wanted. Reforming Xena, having shattered her old world view, now > has to figure out if the right she takes IS the right one. She now has to > decide for herself now if what she is doing is moral or not. It's a HUGE > responsibility. And one Xena is not sure she's capable of. Because she > still considers herself an unworthy and vile person. This is the Xena who > comes stumbling out of the end of Season three. > > And then she meets Alti. Oops! I thought you'd slipped up in the chronology there. But you mean "and then she meets Alti *again* ". Because, of course, when she first met Alti was 'ten winters ago' when she more-than-decimated the Siberian Amazons. > Season four thus unfolds as the season in which Xena loses her faith in > herself. There are scenes after scenes and dialog after dialogue showing > her uncertainty. Probably one reason why I didn't care for the season much, at all. I like the Warrior Princess when she knows where she's going, whether good or Evil. I don't care to see her uncertain, or getting (as you noted) beaten up by pipsqueak little villains that she should've been able to see off in her sleep. I guess it's quite (surprisingly) consistent that my favourite S4 eps are Sin Trade (where she was 'lost' without Gabby but she knew what she was after) and Endgame / Ides where she'd got her focus back. But thanks for pointing that out. > > Season four is the second best season to me, right behind three. I believe > it is the most complicated, the most subtle and shows the greatest change > in Xena's self-image of herself of all the seasons in the whole series. > But I still like Season Three better. Now if the Debt had been part of > seasons four...hmmmmm. > > KT > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:36:12 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY > /BUT I would strongly suggest that both tape and DVD have the same content. > /Otherwise many of us will just get cranky. (Or crankier.) I guess that the > /commentary thing being heard over the ep as an optional sound track isn't > /something you can do on tape though, eh? > > Having the same content on both VHS and DVD would be to throw away > the advatanges of the new technology. Why do that when millions of > people already own DVD machines and discs? > > Boeotian Because I bet most of the people on this list just want to watch Lucy/Xena (or for SOME of you on here, Renee/Gabrielle) and don't give a damn about owning new technology. Companies put extra stuff on DVDs to try to sell essentially the same content with just a few extra doo-dahs twice to one consumer. (As is obvious from all the old stuff that's coming out on DVD.) And DVD manufacturers encourage the extra bits to be only available on the DVDs as it therefore makes buying DVD players more attractive to the consumers. I'm sure the content companies and the technology companies have made some nice little sweetheart deals with each other. The ONLY reason I would invest in DVD technology would be for Xena stuff. And the main reason I would go for DVDs would be that the technology doesn't degrade like VCR tapes do. I dread the day when my Debt tape bites the dust. (Though I DO have six other copies of it, albeit with glitches and wandering lines.) I just think it would be far more fan friendly to offer everything (if possible) in both venues. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 13:00:21 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Gina Torres in Firefly My local TV schedule says that Firefly, a Fox TV series beginning on Friday, produced by Joss Wheon of Buffy, co-stars Gina Torres. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:09:50 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY At 12:36 AM 9/15/2002 -0800, KTL wrote: > > > > Having the same content on both VHS and DVD would be to throw away > > the advatanges of the new technology. Why do that when millions of > > people already own DVD machines and discs? > > > > Boeotian > >Because I bet most of the people on this list just want to watch Lucy/Xena >(or for SOME of you on here, Renee/Gabrielle) and don't give a damn about >owning new technology. and a few of us even like to watch them both, individually and, uh, conjointly? some of us who have multiple personalities like to watch one and/or both of them individually and collectively. and altho i would hope they would be available in both forms, may i say that dvds go waaaaaaay beyond wanting to own new technology. there's the little bit about being able to switch amongst bits and pieces of an ep w/ ease, speed and precision; vastly, incredibly improved quality (which is why i'm praying to whatever gods there may be for the series to be released on dvd), their endurance (more prayers and offerings), and their size. i'm a quality nut and, altho the source quality certainly affects the end quality, all this digital jiggery pokery allows wonders in the way of re-mastering. it would be to die to be able to hop amongst eps w/out all the rewinding and worry abt ruining the tape, to skip scenes, repeat scenes ad nauseam and so forth. >The ONLY reason I would invest in DVD technology would be for Xena stuff. kt, you're such a luddite. >And the main reason I would go for DVDs would be that the technology >doesn't degrade like VCR tapes do. fortunately, and i know this will come as an unwelcome surprise to you, you don't represent either the majority nor the epitome in your attitude. ;-> >I just think it would be far more fan friendly to offer everything (if >possible) in both venues. on this, we *strongly* concur. md--who is one of the SOME and some of the other ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:32:59 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season Four This was a great analysis of Xena's character of season four. Many times we see Gabrielle as the one searching but you very right when you say that Xena is also on a spiritual quest. She has to go from the self-contempt she has for herself to an acceptance that she, as a warrior, has value. I just saw Ides Of March and it is this new acceptance of her role that allows her to reject Callisto's offer of peace and freedom from guilt. Xena understands better than anyone else that her redemption lies not the rejection of her warrior path but in the embracing of it. In essence when Najara says the Xena hasn't changed just changed sides, Xena says yes but that makes all the difference in the world. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 16:56:29 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY >Having the same content on both VHS and DVD would be to throw away >the advatanges of the new technology. In what way? >Why do that when millions of >people already own DVD machines and discs? Because millions also don't? TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:02:27 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four In a message dated 9/14/2002 5:28:44 PM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > Season four is the second best season to me, right behind three. I believe > it is the most complicated, the most subtle and shows the greatest change > in Xena's self-image of herself of all the seasons in the whole series. > But I still like Season Three better. I'm glad you had that little revisit of season four. I so hate it when we disagree. I've always loved S4 for the same reasons, admittedly because I saw beyond the so-called focus on Gabrielle. Heh. And, yes, the way it evolved from S3 (which I think is tied with S4 as my favorite, but more because of the acting) was quite extraordinary. Thanks for pointing out so many connections and foreshadowings that I hadn't quite put together as you did. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #255 **************************************