From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #253 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, September 14 2002 Volume 02 : Number 253 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Wil Wheaton/Creation ["Jackie M. Young" > [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Creation web site UPDATE ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 22:01:40 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Wil Wheaton/Creation On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 Trek4u269@aol.com wrote: > 1. will wheaton. > My point about his site is that he didnt go somewhere and complain like here > or another list. He vented on his own website. - --Whining is whining, wherever you do it. A Web site is pretty _public_, so even though he didn't go to a mailing list to vent, he did do it _publicly_ in a rather (IMO) self-pitying manner. If he just talked privately to a friend, then I would call that "sharing" (though he might've still done it in a whiny manner ;) ). > Any business that does conventions will have their dog locations and by the > same token they also have their primo locations. - --Of course, that was my point. Not every location will make $$ so you can't assume they are always in the black. In the same way that you don't want me to use Hawai'i as an example, I don't think it's accurate for you to use a Grand Slam or 2001 Pasadena Con as a rule, either. And the 2002 Pasadena Con attendance was not as high as they expected, either, so how much of a profit was there, there?? I have a certain amount of experience in organizing and producing Xenafests locally (7 times since 1996), and it's *d*mn hard work*. ;=P ;=P You can't always get a speaker, and you can't always get the attendance you'd like, and you can't always sell the merchandise you've spent your hard-earned $$ on making. When you do get a speaker, they're asking an arm and a leg to speak, plus *First Class* air fare (around $5,000 when I last checked!!). I can only assume these same problems at my smaller level are only magnified at the larger level that Creation is at. Plus, they have full-time staff to pay, which I don't have because we are a volunteer club. You seem to *NOT* want to pay any attention at all to the *math* in this equation, I dunno why?? Just use the figures I quoted for speakers' costs ($5,000 speaking fee + $5,000 First Class air fare + $500? hotel), and we are looking at some *serious* costs here. Multiply that by the number of speakers they normally have at a con (2-3) and I don't blame them for asking at least $50 per head, with a desirable attendance of 500 at least. ;=P What about staff salaries--do you know how *expensive* those are?? In most companies, it's the staff salaries that really *sink* you. ;( You have to pay benefits as well as state/Federal taxes. It can really add up. > ANd who goes to a con and doesnt get any sovenirs. When we did cons in 70s we > took into account people would buy things. - --Like I said, it also *costs* something to get this merchandise, it just doesn't come *free*. I'm assuming their mark-up is at least 50%, if not more. Again, from my own experience, it cost at least $7/t-shirt for us as a club to make (it might be cheaper for a company who buys in volume). If we sold it at $15 we'd make a profit, but not everyone bought the first time so we had a lot of back stock. Eventually, since I had so much back stock I had to start *discounting* the tees, first to $10, then to $5. Again, do the math. If it cost $7 to make and I'm selling the shirts at $5, I'm not making much of a profit, right?? Same with Creation. They might make some profit on some hot items, but others won't sell, and if you noticed at the 2001 Pasadena Con, they were discounting some shirts for $5......the same as my club had to do. ;P And not everyone buys stuff. I know some people who bought *nothing* at the 2001 Pasadena Con. And who only bought General Admission on the last day to see LL and ROC. Basically, with a business, there's no *guarantee* people will buy what you offer, but you still have to stay open and pay staff salaries in order to make it available. :=( You only seem to want to see the fact that merchandise is being bought and sold, but are not taking into account the **costs** involved in making this possible. > but how many people here met with creation execs? Everything is based on > perception. - --Lori usually staffs the registration table, so you can talk to her any old time you like. Adam and Gary are always *prowling* the halls, so you can grab them and talk to them if they're around; they're very approachable, just like the Xena cast. ;) I had no problem talking to any of the execs when I was a newbie, and that was how we got them to bring a Xena con to Hawai'i....... And what about Sharon? She participates in a lot of lists, including this one--you could ask her anything you wanted to any time you wanted to. I agree it's all perception. I *definitely* have a different perception of Creation than you do, so I think we should just agree to disagree. - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:27:20 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Wil Wheaton/Creation OOPS!!!! oops....that wasnt for the list. Sorry ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:25:53 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Wil Wheaton/Creation In a message dated 9/13/2002 1:02:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: > And what about Sharon? She participates in a lot of lists, including this > one--you could ask her anything you wanted to any time you wanted to. > > I agree it's all perception. I *definitely* have a different perception > of Creation than you do, so I think we should just agree to disagree. > if you agreed to disagree with me your post would not have been so long..lol I applaud you defending personal aquaintences as your reply was sprinkled with names more than your own view. Con attendance was down for several factors including show being off air and increasing prices to attend, etc. Some people I know are still xena fans but have moved to other current shows as well. Creation doesnt represent one fandom..they do several. Xena is just one of them. Using the names of the people just lets me see your bias is based on personal experience with them and not as a regualr fan...in fact if you had a bad situation with creation like wil did then you wouldnt think the same way. If I want to talk to any of them I can take the 10 minutes out of my way to drive over there. Why would I? No point in doing so. I live 1 house away from jamie fox and down from ice cube. I talk to them but does that mean everyone else can approach them and talk? nope. Same with many other celebrities. And I wouild like to see anyone go up to them and say they are whiners to their face. ANd I would defend these people since I know them personally. But I wouldnt defend their tv shows or business practices...lol they made some dog tv shows and movies.lol But I would defend someone calling them a whiner if they posted they got the shft on a tv contract. We are only 2 that have commented here but that doesnt mean that people agree or disagree with either of us in a majority. It jusst means no one else cares because there is no end result that can be reached. we are both just venting. I vented because I didnt like that wil was portrayed as a whiner by a friend of creation because fans got on creations case and got wil back. Wil got the shaft, he posted on his web site, fans jumped in, creation apologized and wil is back on the docket.......whatever you wanna call what wil wheaton did _IT WORKED. The fans spoke and creation gave in and made it all right. Wil may not have taken the approach some people would have liked but calling him a whiner is thew same as saying creation and their friends are whining because fans spoke out and they gave in. Nomatter how you slice it....fans got involved on wils behalf and he is going to be in the show now. Bottom line. The end justified the means. And I will still go to trek and xena cons from creation. Not like there is another company that is doing them since they have rights to them. And I will enjoy other fans I see ; including yourself. I dont get mad on these. It is just a fandom for a show that is off the air and there is so much going on in the real world to be angry at....not how a company handled a semi-star from star trek. No one is changing their mind about these people or companies. And fandom will decrease and attendance at cons will drop. Xena will live forever in my heart and all over my home in memorbalia but I moved on to other shows to watch now that she is off the air....like I did before xena was around. Battle on ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:12:00 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Amazon High (was:Re: Xena Fan Club Kit #6 SURVEY) On Friday 13 September 2002 05:15, Creation (Sharon Delaney) wrote: > We're working on kit 6 which will have Coffee Talk 2 with Lucy and Renee as > well as other videos as part of it. With the increase in demand for DVDs, > we're wondering if we should make only a DVD version of kit 6. Or should > we release kits with an option for VHS or DVD. Input would be appreciated > > :) > > Sharon > Official Xena Fan Club > Sharon - On a related note - and since you raised the topic of DVD's etc - could you ask around TPTB and see if there's any chance of Amazon High being released on video or DVD? (And if not why not?) We *know* it exists in finished form because it screened at Dragoncon very recently. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:06:52 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Friday 13 September 2002 11:29, Cheryl Ande wrote: (snip) > > Well in actuality she did designate Xena as the Amazon's commander. Did she? I can't recall that but I may have missed it. > I can > however see that Gabrielle's enthusiastic support of the Amazons does make > her seem a hypocrite but I really never believed Gabby's pacificism. I > always thought it was more of a temporary mechnaism for her to cope with > problems she had with the increasing violence in her life and the choices > she has made up to this point. As Hanumen said it is very bad when some > one is stuck between two paths and Gabrielle is at this point stuck between > her abhorance of violence and her attraction to it. Well, rather than 'attraction', I would have said 'obligation' as Amazon Queen. But yes, she's stuck. (snip) > > I can see Gabrielle more as a political leader of the Amazons in this > episode. After all the president is Commander in Chief of the miliatry but > we haven't had a president lead soldiers into combat since James Madison > and he nearly got captured by the British. It was then pretty much > decided that generals should command armies and not our politicians, even > those who were generals. Gabrielle not fighting sort fits in there for me. Except, of course, that she was there at the battle urging the troops on. Hence the scene that grates for me. I expect it caused Gabrielle a lot of mental unease, but she felt obliged to do it. I just think it didn't work the way the writers/director intended. IMO. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:36:42 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Creation web site UPDATE Just an FYI -- Creation's web site is having some work done on it this morning. I'm typing this on 8/13 at 9:30 am Pacific Time. It should be up again this afternoon. Thanks for your patience, Sharon Creation Ent. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #253 **************************************