From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #237 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, August 29 2002 Volume 02 : Number 237 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] UPDATE: Soulmates Website [Cousin Liz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Meredith Tarr > [Lynn W Ribaud > ["abqbeach" ] [chakram-refugees] Norman Greenfeld? - Oops!! [Lilli Sprintz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 28 August 2002 05:08, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > Thelonius responded: > > But that fight on the vines is just one of those > > things that's dynamically > > impossible. Nobody can roll up a vine sideways > > like that, the basic laws of > > mechanics forbid it. > > Thel, Thel, Thel ... > > If you're gonna suspend disbelief to watch X:WP, you > gotta do it all the way. :) > > The list of physically impossible feats that Xena > pulled off is much longer than the list of physically > possible feats. Yeah, I know that, it's just that I can accept some impossibilities while others just 'get' me. > (The most obvious example of this is > the jump to the ship in "The Lost Mariner", but there > are dozens more. Just curious -- did that ship jump > impair your enjoyment of that episode in any way?) No. Because it was ballistically feasible. If Xena coulda launched herself with the required velocity (OK I know no human could really do that) then she would have described a hyperbolic trajectory that ended up on the ship. There are some minor impossibilities about the launch and the landing, but on the whole I can overlook them. What I found a bit more disconcerting was Xena rescuing Gabby from above the firepit in Gabrielle's Hope (Farscape did almost exactly the same with d'Argo rescuing Chianna from over a vat of acid, and I had the same misgivings) - Xena's trajectory was much too flat and when you combine her momentum with Gabrielle's downward momentum they should both have fallen short and gone down the hole. > The vine thing is an obvious homage to Hong Kong-style > action, where weird, completely implausible but yet > oh-so-cool-to-watch stuff like that happens all the > time. The key, as with most everything else in the > Xenaverse is just to accept that that's how things > work in their world and move on. Picking and choosing > what's acceptable and what's not is ultimately > detrimental to the experience. It's not something I can consciously do. Either a stunt looks OK to me, or my subconscious suddenly sits up and says "That's crap!". The other stunt I can never handle is the one where Xena (or whoever) sticks a wooden spear in the ground and swings round it, kicking the villains. If it was a steel bar, driven in two feet, I'd believe it, but a bit of wood stuck in three inches? Nope, not a chance. On the other hand, I can (with very little effort) accept the amazing returning chacky, with variable edge sharpness and all, and even the Coming Home model with extended loiter capability and self-homing target acquisition. It helps that it's a magic chacky. In fact we *know* it has mystical powers, as witness the way it broke when it hit Xena in Ides, the whole of Chakram, the way it cut Xena when she lost her memory in The Ring, its whole performance in Coming Home, and the way Gabby could throw it accurately with no practice in Friend in Need. But I can't see any magic in that 'Convert' fight, which leaves it impossible and unexplained and so, unsatisfying. And by the way, I don't think we can 'suspend disbelief all the way'. There have to be some ground rules or we're lost. We *have* to believe that, fundamentally, 99% of what happens in XWP is based on the 'real' world, in order to understand or make sense of the series. Xena can jump incredibly high but she can't fly (unless she's given wings or magic). She has amazing powers of recovery but arrows still make nasty holes in her that she can't just wish away. If she wants to get from A to B in a hurry, she has to run (or ride Argo), she can't just wish herself there (only gods can do that, and they can only be in one place at once). And so on and so on. All the exceptions to 'reality' need some explanation, even if the explanation is witchcraft or magic or godly interference. Am I explaining myself right? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 23:17:24 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Wednesday 28 August 2002 21:38, cr wrote > If Xena coulda launched herself with the required velocity [...] > then she would have described a hyperbolic trajectory that ended up > on the ship. Before Lynn shoots me - *parabolic*, not hyperbolic. :( cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:22:22 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: [chakram-refugees] UPDATE: Soulmates Website 'How I Spent My Summer Vacation' I have recently overhauled my entire website with the addition of 65Mb of new information, mostly in the 'Xena Collectibles' (formerly the 'Xena Merchandise' page) and 'Xena Image Gallery' sections. Please click on the link below in my sig file to go to my home page and have a look. I hope you enjoy. Please feel feel to pass this email on to anyone you think might be interested. ps: If you find any broken links, I would appreciate it if you would email me. Thank you. :) - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Thel responded: > Yeah, I know that, it's just that I can accept some > impossibilities while others just 'get' me. This is what doesn't make any sense to me ... if some, then why not all? > No. Because it was ballistically feasible. If Xena > coulda launched herself > with the required velocity (OK I know no human could > really do that) then > she would have described a parabolic trajectory > that ended up on the ship. (I fixed the errant word for you, so as not to provide a reminder ... :) Right, no human could really do that. And no human could really wrap themselves up a vine, either. In my view, you either have to accept both or you have to reject both. Anything else is a double standard. > We *have* to believe > that, fundamentally, 99% of what happens in XWP is > based on the 'real' world, > in order to understand or make sense of the series. Right -- I agree with you there. But why are you assigning some of the "impossible" elements that happen to the other 1%, and not all of them? > All the exceptions to 'reality' need some > explanation, even if the > explanation is witchcraft or magic or godly > interference. ... or the simple fact that Xena Isn't Like The Rest Of Us. Hence she can jump from a cliff all the way to a far-away ship. And roll herself up a vine. They're the same thing. > Am I explaining myself right? Yes ... I'm just having trouble with what you're saying, not how you're saying it. I guess I just can't bring my brain around to understand where you're coming from. Which is fine -- we can't all see things the same way. Meredith (who didn't have any problems with "Tsunami" whatsoever) meth@smoe.org Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:57:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Lynn W Ribaud Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > On Wednesday 28 August 2002 21:38, cr wrote > > > If Xena coulda launched herself with the required velocity [...] > > then she would have described a hyperbolic trajectory that ended up > > on the ship. > > Before Lynn shoots me - *parabolic*, not hyperbolic. :( Damn. I had *such* a nice lesson in mind, too... At least I was going to allow that the verbiage might be hyperbolic, even if the path is not. For the purists, I'll point out that the path is ellipsoidal, not parabolic. So there! And, on topic, it *is* the jump in Lost Mariner that most gets to me -- the forces required to launch a person on such a path would crush bone -- no need to even wonder if muscles could do it. And while I agree that the swing-around-the-spear-in-the-ground stunt is physically impossible, it doesn't bother me as much -- a discussion we've had before. As cr says, it is just one of those your-mileage-may-vary things. (Similarly, Tsunami bothers me not as much on the account of physics as from my perspective of scuba training and my Navy experience, though the physics is screwy there, too.) Lynn Lynn Ribaud, Local Contact X3A Beamline, National Synchrotron Light Source, Brookhaven National Lab ribaud@acsu.buffalo.edu ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:36:55 -0600 From: "abqbeach" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> > > We *have* to believe > > that, fundamentally, 99% of what happens in XWP is > > based on the 'real' world, > > in order to understand or make sense of the series. All this talk of Xenaverse rules reminded me of the bio of Steve Sears that still appears on the Dragoncon site (even though he will not be attending this year) - "Having established himself in the elite niche of Fantasy/Sci-Fi genre writer/producers, Steven has spent a lot of time concentrating on what makes genre television work and what makes it fail. More importantly, what makes it work for the fans and what makes it fail for the studios. Having a minor degree in Psychology/Sociology, he has been fascinated with what he refers to as "The Created Reality": worlds that are absolute fiction, but which follow strict rules that range from physics to moral codes. In those worlds, fantasy creatures can exist and can exist believably, as long as they are subject to the rules of their universe. Star Trek has its Warp Drive and Transporter systems. Xena had its Gods. Stargate has its time portal. All had to create realities with rules. In his latest series, Sheena, the main character had an ability to morph into animals. In order for the audience to believe it, Steven had to believe it. And, even with a premise as bizarre as that, he created believable rules based in science. A "Created Reality." http://www.dragoncon.com/people/searss.html angie in NM ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:39:00 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Norman Greenfeld? - Oops!! Wow, must have been tired that night, crossing over between lists, one a genealogy/Jewish list I've been on for several years looking for info on my paternal grandfather (already had lots on my grandmother who raised us). So, this guy was helping me find my grandfather's gravesite, and I lost track of him (my friend, not my grandfather). Anyway....Xena. What does this have to do with Genealogy? I need to keep my Zoomtext software up so I can see what I'm writing,.....and to whom! Sorry folks, Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 23:19:10 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Norman Greenfeld? - Oops!! Hi, Lilli followed up: >Wow, must have been tired that night, crossing over between lists, one a >genealogy/Jewish list I've been on for several years looking for info on >my paternal grandfather (already had lots on my grandmother who raised us). Ah, so that's what that was. I just figured I'd had one of my Moments again, and let it go. :) >So, this guy was helping me find my grandfather's gravesite, and I lost >track of him (my friend, not my grandfather). Anyway....Xena. What does >this have to do with Genealogy? Um ... who knows, maybe if you trace far enough back you'll find that you're a descendant of Xena or Gabrielle! ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Annie Gallup, Saturday, 9/28 at 8 pm ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #237 **************************************