From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #236 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, August 28 2002 Volume 02 : Number 236 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [sojourner@paradise.net.nz] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Meredith Tarr ] [chakram-refugees] finding norman greenfeld [Lilli Sprintz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 27 August 2002 11:27, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/26/02 5:37:58 PM Central Daylight Time, > cande@sunlink.net writes: > > > @ > @ > @ > > @ > @ > @@ > > > << We then have a little coda at the episode's end which I find annoying > in the > extreme. Gabriele says about Najara that sometimes when push comes to > shove sometimes you just have to shove back but she can't do that nay more. > Xena then chimes in that with her around Gabrielle won't have to. Thus we > have the > basic hypocrisy of pacifism as practiced in the Xena verse. Gabrielle > will be > non-violent blowing powder at the bad guys and will never sully her soul > with violence because she has Xena around who will sully her soul beating > the crap out the people who threaten the pacifist.>> Yes that struck me very strongly. I found it - well, yes, hypocritical on Gabs' part. It makes Gabby at least an accessory in any violence that Xena may do, which IMO is incompatible with her Eli-flavoured 'absolute' pacifism. If you want a classic example of the *intelligent* use of pacifism, watch the movie 'Gandhi'. Or even the Gabby of Seasons 1 and 2, that was a more practical brand of non-aggression. > One of the risks XWP took was showing the fallabilities of its heroines, > showing them as evolving, not having mastered a particular issue by the end > of an ep. Gabrielle is basically saying she understands why force may be > necessary (which she must do if she is to justify Xena and her life with > Xena), even as she struggles with how to deal with that in nonviolent ways. > Xena is basically "supporting" Gabrielle by encouraging her to be dependent > -- which Gabrielle really doesn't want to be (and serves to justify Xena's > butt-kicking "protection"). > > I always felt that conunrum was the focal point of the pacifism, not the > pacifism itself. It showed how well-intentioned people could seem > hypocritical (which both G&X could be accused of), as they tried to deal > with their real world and personal needs. Unfortunately, by itself, any > one ep could seem to be promoting an idea that it was, instead, exploring > in many ways in many eps. Still, I liked that the series didn't offer > "easy" or "pat" answers. Personally, I considered that reformed Xena was quite a good example of, if not out-and-out pacifism, certainly restraint in the use of force. Non-aggression would be a better term for it, I guess. *Most* of the time, anyway. She certainly got stuck into a fight when it started and she never chickened out of one, *but* she almost never started one for the sake of it, or escalated one that was going on, or kept attacking the enemy after they were defeated. That may not be outright pacifism (which I think is unsustainable) but it satisfies my pacifist leanings at least enough for me to be able to watch XWP without feeling guilty. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:26:11 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 27 August 2002 10:43, Cheryl Ande wrote: > @ > @ > @ > > @ > @ > @@ > > > Gabrielle rescues the girls by blowing powder in the bad guys' > faces (yes you heard me right - let's all give thanks for Rob and Lucy's > procreating proclivities that pacifist Gabby had to be ditched in about > three episodes from now). Amen! That has got to be the stupidest thing they *ever* made anybody do. And then Xena calls it a "neat trick". It makes me cringe. Maybe Xena was just being polite but really, even a little white lie should have _some_ veneer of credibility. (Unless of course it was rapid-acting anthrax powder... but that might be inconsistent with Gabs' newfound pacifism.... ) The mysterious woman turns out to be Najara who > has escaped from prison but has put done the sword. > > Najara is character that you really have to learn to appreciate. She is > just wonderfully manipulative. She knows just which buttons to push for > both gals. With Gabby she is just so vulnerable and makes Xena always seem > like such a thug. In the village when Gabby tending to her on the litter > Xena comes as says she is sending Najara and scoffs at her alleged > reformation, Najara just huddles against Gabrielle seeking her protection. "Would you buy a used chariot from this woman?" I wouldn't trust a word she said. Callisto at least was straight-up in-yer-face about her intentions. > Whatever the reason Xena now has here chance to kick the hell out of Najara > which she does. In a brutal fight scene, Najara and her fight over > Gabrielle like two big dogs in heat (and let's face it that what this fight > is about - Gabrielle not the great good or any other noble sentiments. > Najara loses and last we see her she's in a coma at the Sister's of Gaia's > hospice. But that fight on the vines is just one of those things that's dynamically impossible. Nobody can roll up a vine sideways like that, the basic laws of mechanics forbid it. Oddly enough, I can happily accept Xena hurling 'energy' chakrams at Alti in Between the Lines because that's mystical fantasy, and I can accept Xena's superhuman feats of strength, but this fight on the vines is I guess supposed to be semi-realistic or at least non-mystical and it just drops me right out of the story. Just one of those "your mileage may vary" things I guess. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:39:55 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 27 August 2002 04:46, Sojourner wrote: > ># > ># > ># > ># > ># > ># > ># > ># > I liked Gabby's dress, until she was running from the flying carpet. I > could not believe that ROC, a slim little thing at the best of times, could > have her butt look so enormous. I woulda sued Rob if I was her. Though I > guess Rob wasn't director ("run away from the camera, Renee") or the > costume designer ("how big do you want her butt to look????"). > Heh! Quote from LL to RT (on the FIN DC DVD): "Could you have CGI'd my *butt* a little smaller?" Poor RT, can't win :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:32:29 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Tuesday 27 August 2002 10:43, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > New commentaries next week. I'm going to DragocCon. I anyone on the list > is going let me know. I'd be happy to get together. Ask Lee Daily I > behave really well in public - honest. > > CherylA And you *will* be giving us a report - or an episode review - on the promised screening of the Amazon High pilot, won't you? Better yet, steal the tape! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:06:00 +1200 (NZST) From: sojourner@paradise.net.nz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Quoting cr : > On Tuesday 27 August 2002 04:46, Sojourner wrote: > > ># > > ># > > ># > > ># > > ># > > ># > > ># > > ># > > > I liked Gabby's dress, until she was running from the flying carpet. > I > > could not believe that ROC, a slim little thing at the best of times, > could > > have her butt look so enormous. I woulda sued Rob if I was her. Though > I > > guess Rob wasn't director ("run away from the camera, Renee") or the > > costume designer ("how big do you want her butt to look????"). > > > > Heh! Quote from LL to RT (on the FIN DC DVD): "Could you have CGI'd my > *butt* a little smaller?" > > Poor RT, can't win :) > > cr > Oh poop. It wasn't HIS butt that looked so enormous. No sympathy there. Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> Hi, Thelonius responded: > But that fight on the vines is just one of those > things that's dynamically > impossible. Nobody can roll up a vine sideways > like that, the basic laws of > mechanics forbid it. Thel, Thel, Thel ... If you're gonna suspend disbelief to watch X:WP, you gotta do it all the way. :) The list of physically impossible feats that Xena pulled off is much longer than the list of physically possible feats. (The most obvious example of this is the jump to the ship in "The Lost Mariner", but there are dozens more. Just curious -- did that ship jump impair your enjoyment of that episode in any way?) The vine thing is an obvious homage to Hong Kong-style action, where weird, completely implausible but yet oh-so-cool-to-watch stuff like that happens all the time. The key, as with most everything else in the Xenaverse is just to accept that that's how things work in their world and move on. Picking and choosing what's acceptable and what's not is ultimately detrimental to the experience. Meredith meth@smoe.org P.S. They're screening "Amazon High" at DragonCon?!? Holy crap!!! My kingdom for frequent flyer miles ... Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:09:51 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Kevin Smith Trust Fund Update A note from Kevin's agent. Please pass along for everyone to share :) Sharon The family is starting to cope with the reality of it all, but there are so many reminders of Kevin around the place. Restaurants, cafes and friends all have photos of him. A series about animals called "Funny Farm," made last year, has started showing and is narrated by the hero dog "Hercules" voiced by Kevin. The trust fund currently stands at NZ $200,000 which is going to the education of his boys. Sue is absolutely overwhelmed by the generosity of everyone's donations. I am having lunch with Suzanne and Kevin's parents on Thursday so will pass on everyone's best wishes. Kind regards, Robert Bruce Kevin Smith Trust Fund ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:23:19 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] [chakram-refugee] Oxygen From Internet Movie Database news-- Did AOL Inflate Its Books with Oxygen? Last year Oxygen Media, the women's cable channel, purchaed $100 million in ads on AOL after AOL Time Warner invested $30 million to $50 million in Oxygen, The Wall Street Journal reported today (Monday). The deal, the newspaper said, is likely to come under regulatory investigation as the SEC seeks to determine whether AOL attempted to inflate revenues prior to its merger with Time Warner. Oxygen COO Lisa Gersh Hall indicated in an interview with the WSJ that her company got very little for its $100 million. "The deal was less lucrative than originally anticipated," Hall commented. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:49:49 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Gladiatrix on Discovery Hi, A little while ago, Boeotian reported: >The Discovery Channel is advertising a documentary Gladiatrix, on >women gladiators, to be shown Sept. 8. I doubt there's enough real >info on the subject to make a docu, but they'll no doubt fake it. Well, whatever they're doing, it's of interest to Xenites because none other than Lucy Lawless is going to be hosting it! http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/Stories/0,1413,106%257E5000%257E822274,00.html ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Annie Gallup, Saturday, 9/28 at 8 pm ============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:57:08 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] finding norman greenfeld thanks to everyone who helped. norman himself emailed me today, so we're back in contact. cheers. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #236 **************************************