From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #229 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, August 21 2002 Volume 02 : Number 229 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Friend in Need - Commentary [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Music Cues [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [mirrordrum > [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [Sojourner > ["Cheryl Ande" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Lee Daley" > [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:41:42 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 19 August 2002 13:08, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > (random snips for bandwidth) > > This is really a very imaginative episode. It introduces the concept of > reincarnation and the mendhi. The most interesting thing of course is that > we discover that Xena's future life is not as a warrior but as a saintly > peace maker and Gabrielle is destined to be a warrior king. I didn't much care for that part of it - Xena as the Mother of Peace just did not appeal to me, I'm afraid. More specifically, it was kinda painful to see Xena as a feeble old woman. > In this incarnation Alti is very powerful because she has both spiritual > and physical power. Xena and Gabrielle are basically used by Naiyima and > the mendhi to bring Alti back into a time period where she is not so strong > and thus destroy her and save the furture. The battle between Alti, Xena, > and Gabrielle is one the most brutal of the series. Xena is beaten to a > pulp by Alti's spiritual power and even her trusty chakram is used against > her (a foreshadowing of Ides of March) . Gabrielle experiences the > crucifixion vision for the first time (and gets an improptu hair cut by way > of Xena's chakram). Oddly enough, though S4 is my least favourite season and the India arc not one I care for at all, I count that fight as *the* fight of the entire series. Even though it's quite atypical (how many times does Xena get thoroughly trampled in a one-on-one fight and have to be rescued by someone else? Once, by Najara, is the only instance that comes to mind, and that one hardly compares IMO.) That furious scream of Xena's - "You biiiitch!" is a nice touch, it's a moment of comic relief in the middle of, I think, the most comprehensive and bloody defeat Xena's ever experienced. It almost hurts to watch it. Then by contrast, just when Xena is finished, the entrance of Naiyima into the fight is very cool, very impressive. That fight makes the episode, for me. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:10:35 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Friend in Need - Commentary I've just completed a transcript of the commentary to FIN on the DVD (with the help of Xena Torres' transcript of the episode itself). It's currently at: http://www.cr.dingojunction.com/nx/FIN-DC-commentary.html It will be moving to Xena Torres' transcripts site as soon as that is complete. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:34:22 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Music Cues mirrordrum > > i made a post on this maybe yesterday telling > folks where to look for cue > sheets as examples. a google search for > "musical cue sheet" "blade runner" > will get you a word document that gives part of > the mcs for blade runner. > here's part of it > > as you can see, very complex. i also came > across course assignments for > musical cue sheets where students were to use > previously composed music and > had to indicate title and composer and/or to > insert their own musical bits. > This was very interesting. You could see how the main composer couldn't possiblably "compose" every musical note. So Kolton's argument must be if you composed the single note of music that introduces a character or scen change you own that note and he wants royalties on that note even if you did that under the main composer's direction or sound editor's direction. What a nightmare that would be since I can only assume some of that music might be considered sound effects also. It would make royalty payments a pain. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:41:48 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> cr wrote: > > I didn't much care for that part of it - Xena > as the Mother of Peace just did > not appeal to me, I'm afraid. More > specifically, it was kinda painful to > see Xena as a feeble old woman. > No I liked it. It showed that Xena truly redeemed herself and she carries her knowledge forward for the greater good. As for being a feeble old lady - oh I don't know if she was feeble. She certainly was crippled a bit and elderly but she was facing down Kindin at the point Xena jumped into her - so she must have been fairly robust. Also she has had a very busy life making peace throughout India so she must have been a remarkable woman. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:11:41 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 12:41 AM 8/21/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Monday 19 August 2002 13:08, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > >(random snips for bandwidth) > > > > > This is really a very imaginative episode. It introduces the concept of > > reincarnation and the mendhi. The most interesting thing of course is that > > we discover that Xena's future life is not as a warrior but as a saintly > > peace maker and Gabrielle is destined to be a warrior king. > >I didn't much care for that part of it - Xena as the Mother of Peace just did >not appeal to me, I'm afraid. More specifically, it was kinda painful to >see Xena as a feeble old woman. pish. speaking as a somewhat "enfeebled" and nearly old (58 years) woman, i found it refreshing and encouraging. it seems to me that the point is that strength of purpose, character, whatever one wishes to call it, is not reserved for those who are temporarily-abled and physically or socially powerful. xena as MoP has learned and earned a different kind of strength and power. it's the power that comes of relinquishing personal grasping; the penultimate of working for the greater good. it's not flashy, it wouldn't make a great action series, not nearly as much fun, it's much more difficult, requires far greater discipline and it's not "xena"--it's arminestra. what i couldn't buy, otoh, was gab as that particular warrior. i think it was partly the silly costume. but it was a rather fun play on the reincarnation theme which, btw, they really screwed up royally. as i've said before. but then, it's xena. if they'd done it right, it would have been something else. > > In this incarnation Alti is very powerful because she has both spiritual > > and physical power. Xena and Gabrielle are basically used by Naiyima and > > the mendhi to bring Alti back into a time period where she is not so strong > > and thus destroy her and save the furture. The battle between Alti, Xena, > > and Gabrielle is one the most brutal of the series. Xena is beaten to a > > pulp by Alti's spiritual power and even her trusty chakram is used against > > her (a foreshadowing of Ides of March) . Gabrielle experiences the > > crucifixion vision for the first time (and gets an improptu hair cut by way > > of Xena's chakram). > >Oddly enough, though S4 is my least favourite season and the India arc not >one I care for at all, I count that fight as *the* fight of the entire >series. Even though it's quite atypical (how many times does Xena get >thoroughly trampled in a one-on-one fight and have to be rescued by someone >else? Once, by Najara, is the only instance that comes to mind, and that >one hardly compares IMO.) ooooh, better than xena playing sampson in ming tien's palace in ? > That furious scream of Xena's - "You biiiitch!" i tell you, you really *must* watch to which i feel quite sure that was an homage altho the line (which of course one immediately flashes on is "get away from her, you bitch"). different delivery, of course. >is a nice touch, it's a moment of comic relief in the middle of, I think, the >most comprehensive and bloody defeat Xena's ever experienced. It almost >hurts to watch it. Then by contrast, just when Xena is finished, the >entrance of Naiyima into the fight is very cool, very impressive. yeah, i liked that too. hated the crawl at the end. rob was obsessed with xena and gab crawling toward each other in that arc. so yawn-making. >That fight makes the episode, for me. i loved the mendhi fx. and gab dangling by her hairs. and xena lopping them off. yeah, it was a good fight scene. and i simply doted on naiyima and was greatly distressed that she never reappeared. *sigh* md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:27:46 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend in Need - Commentary At 01:10 AM 8/21/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >I've just completed a transcript of the commentary to FIN on the DVD >(with the help of Xena Torres' transcript of the episode itself). dahling, you're simply indefatigable. very much appreciated except the print's so bloody small! i love lucy's comment about not knowing how to play the part about having had yet another SO in her life. the "oh, btw, here's another relationship i forgot to tell you about." and then her later comment that playing bad xena was easier b/c all the "deception of gabrielle was harder for me." fascinating. it was hard for me too. it's intriguing to see the different ways that RT and the two women view the movie. RT's all about "what i was trying to do" and "what i couldn't achieve" and LL particularly is so often voicing exactly my reactions. i keep thinking about what it must be like in a tv show trying to enact someone else's vision of a relationship you've created for 6 years. i wonder how much is a difference in the necessary and inherent sensibilities betw actor and writer/director/producer and how much has to do with simply lucy's intuitive sense that made her so effective in the role and the relationship betw xena and gab. anyway, thanks. i'll be reading more as i can. fascinating. very appreciative. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:56:05 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 8/20/2002 11:11:25 AM Central Daylight Time, aemoses@comcast.net writes: > speaking as a somewhat "enfeebled" and nearly old (58 years) woman, i > found it refreshing and encouraging. it seems to me that the point is that > strength of purpose, character, whatever one wishes to call it, is not > reserved for those who are temporarily-abled and physically or socially > powerful. xena as MoP has learned and earned a different kind of strength > and power. it's the power that comes of relinquishing personal grasping; > the penultimate of working for the greater good. it's not flashy, it > wouldn't make a great action series, not nearly as much fun, it's much more > difficult, requires far greater discipline and it's not "xena"--it's > arminestra. Hear, hear! We've got 50ish, 60ish -- heck, even 70ish -- male "action" heroes on screen. The wonderful thing to me about Xena was that you could find an image of yourself regardless of age or appearance. Yes, I could identify with Xena even though she's physically and chronologically nothing like me. But it was also nice to see women like Minda, M'Lila, Lao Ma, Arminestra, etc., who reflected a range of styles and sensibilities. I too liked the quiet power of Arminestra. My image of an elder Xena was different than that, but I realized that Xena might actually have become somewhat like that if they found a way to bring her back (without jeopardizing the souls) after the events in Japa. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:57:39 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> At 00:41 21/08/2002 +1200, cr wrote: >On Monday 19 August 2002 13:08, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > > > >(random snips for bandwidth) > > > > > This is really a very imaginative episode. It introduces the concept of > > reincarnation and the mendhi. The most interesting thing of course is that > > we discover that Xena's future life is not as a warrior but as a saintly > > peace maker and Gabrielle is destined to be a warrior king. > >I didn't much care for that part of it - Xena as the Mother of Peace just did >not appeal to me, I'm afraid. More specifically, it was kinda painful to >see Xena as a feeble old woman. Oh poor cr - all the old bags of the list jumping the heck down your throat! What? Xena without the T&A? Without the bad-@ss warrior ways? No "particular war-cry when she attacks"? Well I for one enjoyed the sensibility that the Mother of Peace could be as active as hero as the scantily-clad warrior vixen. Of course that enfeebled old chick did pick up a dagger and try to stab Khindin/Alti. I didn't mind Gab as Shakti - apart from that darn turban. She's a lovely young woman - but the hats they have foisted on her have been spectacularly less than successful. Only one hat has worked, IMO, that cute outfit she wore when infiltrating Shark Island prison. The most laughable effort was the hat which disguised her in The God You Know. When she whipped it off in the crowd to "reveal" herself to Eve - well I hadn't laughed so hard since Old Ares Had a Farm (which was only 2 eps prior). >Oddly enough, though S4 is my least favourite season and the India arc not >one I care for at all, I count that fight as *the* fight of the entire >series. We agree on so much - yet not this. Although I seem to remember you have an unhealthy regard for AITST. Me too. Oh - I mean the season 4 thing - I wholeheartedly concur with your and md's assessment of the fight. Fan-bloody-tastic. To be followed the next ep by the most revolting fight - biting, daggers in the face, arms chopped off - in the very next ep. But the BTL fight got my Argo award for the 2nd best fight of the whole lot (still went for the fight in OAAA) - this was before I had seen FIN. The one thing I kinda wished for this ep - is that they should have had actually had the new actors continue their portrayals of the uber-X, G and A. Tharini Mudiliar, Gabriella Larkin and Saras Govender seemed to have things completely under control. AND (last thought i promise) I haven't seen any fanfic shacking Arminestra up with Shakti. Come on - it's all soul-stuff isn't it? Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:57:16 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # # # The Way, until Xena lost her head over the geisha, was the most controversial episode of the series. Protests by a few fundalmentalist Hindus over the appearance of Krishna and his fondness for non-Hindu women warriors caused the episode to be pulled in some markets. There insued a number of counter petitions and protests from Xena fans which allowed the episode to be shown again in a slightly altered form with a very pregnant Lucy, ROC and a gentlemen from some Indian political group assuring everyone that no harm was intended. Now what was all the fuss about. Not much as it turns out. While there are some good points, among which is Krishna, it is a disappointing episode. First we have Xena doubting her role as a warrior and Gabrielle, having gone native, nudging these doubts along. Then they are attacked by deamons who announce that Injradit, The King of Deamons, is after the new avatar so they have attacked Xena and Gabrielle (huh!). X & G go lookin for this avatar and it turns out to be Eli. Who now, as he explains to Gabby, is following the Way of Love and is a pascifist ( I don't know what he was before but he certainly was no warrior so his coversion to pascifists seems a bit redunate). X & G decide to travel him and encounter Hanuman, the monkey god. He looks a little like a wookie but better groomed and with a lovely Anglo-Indian accent. Hanamun takes everyone off to Krishna's temple where Eli will be safe if he has the common sense to stay inside. Which he doesn't. Xena is attacked and he rushes outside to do what is unclear since he doesn't fight but it does allow him to be captured by Injradit who throws him in his flying carpet (tha's kind of neat). Gabrielle is also captured because she like Elie doesn't have enough common sense to run back into the temple where it is safe. Xena meanwhile now is told by Hanuman that she must ask Krishna for help to rescue her friend. Xena is not pleased about this since "she doesn't trust gods, doesn't think she needs then and doesn't like them". Reluctantly she agrees and Krishna appears. Krishna as portrayed here is a rather a charming "personification of ultimate godhood" he has a nice air of amused compassion. When Xena describes herself as just an "angry ass-kicking warrior" Krishna tells Xena that there is nothing wrong with this. If she fights for a just cause then her karma will be fullfilled and to ride into battle unafraid and if called upon he will help. Xena has now found her way - a way that will lead to sainthood. Meanwhile back at Injradit's temple Gabrielle is frustrated by Eli's refusal to help them find a way to escape. Eli says he will do nothing because his battle will be a spiritual one with Injurite. Injurite appears and taunts Eli with threats to his disciple Gabrielle. Then as Eli and Gabrielle meditate, a beaten and tortured Xena is revealed. Gabrielle immediately fights to defend Xena only to discover it is an illusion. A gleeful Injradit begins to choke her as Eli watches in his pascfic and loving way. Xena appears and saves Gabby by cutting off the deamon's hand off only to have it replaced by six arms. Xena battles IInjradit only to have her arms cut off. As she lies dying she calls on Krisna who transforms her into Kali, the destroyer goddess. In a bloody and savage fight, whose best moment comes when Xena aka Kali naws on Injradit's hand, Xena beheads the demon king. In the final scene, Eli announces he is going home. Gabrielle throws her staff in the river and tells Xena she is going the follow the Way of Love but she will not leave Xena . Together following different paths they will reach the same place together. Thus pascifist Gabby is born. Thus we have the whole problem with this episode. We have introduced the way of love and pascifism into the series. A major character has decided to adopt this philosphy but it has been proven a failure in this very episode. Injradit isn't defeated by pascificism but by one of the most violent gods in the Hindu pantheon, Kali. Krisna himself blesses the way of the warrior. Eli never fights a spiritual war with Injradit and is so ineffectural even Gabrielle is annoyed by him. So why Gabrielle has decided to suddenly convert to his philosphy is a mystery. If he had even the slightest hand in defeating Injradit or saving Gabrielle or even Xena it might make sense but Eli does nothing and his pascifism has accomplished nothing. Also the spisode just seems too fanastic. Flying carpets and monkey gods just see out of place in the Xena verse. Hanuman was a nice enough character but he just seemed out of place as Xena and Gabrielle's buddy. it has been said that RT liked Hanuman so much that he wanted him as arecurring character - so we'd would have both Joxer and monkey man as sidekicks. I think tonight I'll than Krishna for his more pig-headed followers who inadvertantly saved the Xenaverse from monkey guy. I also have just plain personal problems with the episode. I hated Xena's hair - she looks better in bangs and Gabrielle needs shoes. Ifshe had had shoes she wouldn't have been captured by Injradit (not to mention a better running dress). ROC also felt the need for shoes and later put her foot down, literally, and demanded footwear when Rob wanted Gabrielle to stay bare-footed. Now it seems like I hated The Way and really I didn't - hey it's Xena so it can't be all bad. I liked the part where the demon at the river is throwing around Injradit's various evil titles and Xena say's "I get it he's the bad guy." Like Krishna a lot and I especially liked the fact that he is the only god who acts unselfishly. I personally don't think he cared one way or the other about Eli but I think he liked Xena. I liked Gabrielle's haircut too. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:59:43 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> On Behalf Of Sojourner > >By the way how many think the poor guy who gets killed keeping > Amenestra from > >killing and who got the mendhi kit was Joxer reincarnated - I do. > > Unlikely - he was good looking and achieved his mission and was polite to > X/A and died quickly and didn;t annoy the cr*p out of me. > Several possibilities: The pasta strainer is what does it, without it he's somewhat normal. The poor guy was Perdicus or another of Gabrielle's "Red Shirts". The Olympus Mutual Life Insurance Co. application doesn't ask if you smoke cigarettes, it asks "Do you know Xena or Gabrielle?" A drive by posting from LeeD ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:50:52 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 08/20/2002 2:58:15 PM Central Daylight Time, sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: << Well I for one enjoyed the sensibility that the Mother of Peace could be as active as hero as the scantily-clad warrior vixen. Of course that enfeebled old chick did pick up a dagger and try to stab Khindin/Alti. >> Um, well, as much as this old chick enjoyed Mama Peace, I believe it was technically Xena's spirit (or whatever) who tried to stab Alti. Still, I got a kick out of seeing Xena still trying to kick butt, regardless of what body she inhabited. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #229 **************************************