From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #216 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, August 6 2002 Volume 02 : Number 216 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] UPDATE -- pivotal eps list [NZJester ] Re: [chakram-refugees] 10 pivotal Xena eps ["H.J.J. Hewitt" > [] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 00:21:33 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> In a message dated 8/4/2002 4:04:20 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: @ @ @ @ @ @ @ > > The episode falls apart for me is on two levels. First the basic premises of > the episode is that in Aiden's land Xena and Gabrielle are devolving into > the > basic elements: Gabrielle drifting into a coma-like goodness with Xena > rushing pell-mell into a hyperactive darkness. I simply don't believe > goodness has to be passive and that all action is motivated by the dark side. > > There was nothing here that convinced me otherwise.>> Hmmm, maybe this is just me (and I admit I haven't seen this in awhile), but I thought it was more about life forces (e.g., yin/yang) than necessarily just about X&G. As Garr seemed to suggest, Aiden had created a stillness -- death -- where there were no "causes" (in both senses of the word). G's desire for peace/goodness in a sense turned in on itself, with nothing to stimulate it. X's turmoil and need for activity had no outlet, except to turn inward (manifested in her physical changes and bloody nose) or -- which she feared -- against Gabrielle or the other inhabitants or objects in "paradise." With nothing to balance them, each experienced the (exaggerated for dramatic purposes) extremes of her particular strengths/fears. Xena used this, so that Aiden would not be able to draw any power (good) from her, having faith that Garr's imminent death would give Gabrielle a reason to fight Aiden. >Finally turning > Aiden > into the stock evil villain was disappointing. It would have been more > interesting to have given Aiden a real motive for draining people of the > goodness - to have answered the question as to why he was so ruthless in his > efforts to create his perfect world would have given the episode more power > and meaning. Evil is always more compelling when there is some kind of > logic > behind it. What was scary to me is precisely how innocent Aiden seemed, how much sense he made. The "perfection" he sought reminds me of those who try to control life or remake it in their own image, regardless of what they kill in the process - like gods, artists or scientists who become obsessed with their creations. Talking about serenity, peace, manipulating genes to eliminate diseases or "abnormalities" sounds good on the surface, so we might not recognize the dangers until (like Xena), we see lifeless or deadly results. Aiden didn't change. It was Xena's (and our) new view of him that made us see him for the monster he actually was. There could be those who believe his selfish quest to live off others is "normal," or as the price of new learning or "progess." To them, he wouldn't be so much a monster, as someone driven to preserve his "vision." I agree that the somewhat cartoonish fight scenes in end tended to confuse all that. However, I saw what he was doing as a "real motive" all too similar to real life. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:28:36 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 05 August 2002 09:09, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > ## > # > # > > # > > Paradise Lost is a problematic episode for me. I really like a lot of it > and yet I feel that it failed in some ways. > I really don't care for it, but it has its good moments. Most of them comic, actually. (And when I say the best moments in an ep are comic ones, it's really in trouble! ;-) G: "It's beautiful-- don't you think?" X: "Yeah, in that yucky, `I'm-in-paradise' kind of way." Good ol' Xena, always the cynic! And the other moment that cracked me up was the one you mentioned - Garr's 'Your clothes, *sir* ' to a naked Xena. > Lets start with the good. I thought Lucy, Jeremy Roberts (cast against > physical type as the yoga guru), Mervyn Smith as Garr and ROC were all > excellent. Jeremy Roberts is one of my favourite supporting actors, and very good at getting into character. Who would have recognised the creepy Aidan as the flaky assassin Thersites (Fistful of Dinars) or the devilish Xerxos (Be Deviled). > Jeremy Roberts nicely underplays Aiden, and if you didn't just > know things were going to turn out badly, you could have believed that he > was exactly as he seemed - a kindly and compassionate man. Yes. I called him creepy, but that's with hindsight. Very good acting IMO. Marton Csokas as Khrafstar comes to mind as a parallel - whenever I see Khrafstar now I notice (with hindsight) an evil glint in his eye, but when I first saw the episode I thought him a thoroughly nice and reassuring man. > Smith is excellent as Garr- the loopy soldier who is wiser than he seems. Was he a bit mentally defective? He certainly seemed that way but, most likely, it was just a pose to convince Aidan he was harmless. Merv Smith did a good job with that. I suppose LL and ROC were good but, since I don't really much care for the ep, their performances don't stand out in my mind. I agree the 'killer rabbit Xena' was a mistake. Like bad Monty Python rather than a Xena ep. Oh, and there was another of those occurrences of The Vision... three of them, IIRC. Adjusted, as always, to suit the episode. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 22:03:45 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] UPDATE -- pivotal eps list At 09:11 pm 4/08/2002 -0700, Sharon wrote: >Someone just included why they chose each ep and that will be a big help >when I make up the lists for those that haven't seen some of the episodes. >Goodness -- some people haven't seen all the eps?! We in New Zealand have Yet to see all the Eps But that is soon to change We only have the two FIN eps to go Amazing to think the show was filmed here and the final two eps are only just about to air for us Kiwi's for the first time I will be sad to see the show come to an end I will miss my weekly fix of New Xena eps :-( - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:40:37 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 10 pivotal Gabrielle eps is this the format you were seeking : Return of Callisto--- This was a Gabrielle pivotal episode because she marries her love Perdicus, he gets killed by Callisto, and she wanted to kill Callisto for revenge. When Callisto comes back later in the season she taunts Gabrielle with the events from this episode. Vic ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 00:36:04 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] UPDATE -- pivotal eps list On Monday 05 August 2002 22:03, NZJester wrote: > We in New Zealand have Yet to see all the Eps > But that is soon to change > We only have the two FIN eps to go > Amazing to think the show was filmed here and the final two eps are > only just about to air for us Kiwi's for the first time The plus, of course, is that while the rest of the world was bewailing the end of the series, we still had over a years' worth to look forward to..... > I will be sad to see the show come to an end > I will miss my weekly fix of New Xena eps :-( Me too. First I had to get used to the fact that there wouldn't be any more new tapes in my mailbox..... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 08:11:18 -0400 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" (by way of meredith ) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 10 pivotal Xena eps Sharon challenged-- >On with the thinking caps What would you say were the 10 pivotal >episodes in the life of Xena? Well, \overwhelmingly/, the first ep, SINS OF THE PAST where she acquires the tagalong Gabrielle. But, do you want to include H:TLJ? Surely at least one of the trilogy there would be pivotal... probably the 3rd (THE GAUNTLET?) where she reforms. Then there is her initial encounter with and betrayal by Caesar... wasn't that DESTINY? (Also, that's where she learned the "pinch", a very effective tool in many situations.) I presume it will make things earier for you if we respond directly to you, but maybe folks might throw their ideas out for discussion by posting a copy-- CC: chakram-refugees@smoe.org as I have here. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:06:56 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] 10 pivotal Xena eps >Sharon challenged-- >>On with the thinking caps What would you say were the 10 pivotal >>episodes in the life of Xena? > >Well, \overwhelmingly/, the first ep, SINS OF THE PAST where she acquires >the tagalong Gabrielle. > >But, do you want to include H:TLJ? Surely at least one of the trilogy >there would be pivotal... probably the 3rd (THE GAUNTLET?) where she >reforms. > >Then there is her initial encounter with and betrayal by Caesar... wasn't >that DESTINY? (Also, that's where she learned the "pinch", a very >effective tool in many situations.) > >I presume it will make things earier for you if we respond directly to you, >but maybe folks might throw their ideas out for discussion by posting a >copy-- >CC: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org >as I have here. > > >TEXena You're right. We need to include the trilogy or part of it. Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:10:32 -0400 From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # # # # This is an enjoyable episode. It introduces Eli whom I always liked. I kind of wish he remained the street magician instead become the prophit of peace but more about that later when The Way is reviewed. This is a nice colorful episode. Gabrielle gets possessed by the evil spirit Tenaka. I remember being very surprised at ROC in this episode. She seemed to really enjoy playing the sexy demon and she was impressive beating the crap out of Xena. ROC kick boxing skills used well. I always though ROC did her demons well - it must have been nice change for her play evil and she always seemed to relish it. The episode was well done. There is a nice scene where Gabrielle-Tenaka manipulates Xena by breaking down into tears - Xena is such a sucker for a weepy Gabby that it is kind of touching. Of course we have seldom if ever seen Gabrielle really be so blantly emotional when arguing with Xena that it is a good clue that Gabby isn't herself (of couse the pearl dress is a pretty good clue too). I liked the fact that Tenaka possession seemed to be slow - with Gabrielle disappearing little by little - we see at first that she is stunned by the crowds adoration of her and then you see acceptance, then pride and finally we see the vanity of the demon emerge. It was guadual enough that the audience did wonder how much was Gabrielle's own desire for recognition emerging or if it was something more sinister. Of course I did wonder why Eli's assistant got all wild with blue eyes when possessed by the demon and Gabrielle just got a new make-up and sexy. Costumes are bright and colorful and Gabrielle finally gets a new costume - unfortunately its the sari which I just never liked. It was terrible to fight in (no problem since Gabby about to go pacifist), but it was also awful to run in (a must for a pacifist living with warrior). I alos thought the color was awful and it made ROC's behind look as large as Montana. I liked the one from PF which was attractive and pratical but I wasn't asked. Impressive make-up award goes to the extemely ugly dogs that chase Xena and Eli through the bazar. I wonder how tough it is to make-up dogs. This had one the bets fights of series and the ironic thing is that it is between Xena and Gabrielle. I loved Gabrielle's face lick - its shockingly sexual and cruel at the same time. Xena's determination to kill Gabrielle to save her from the demon is surprising but very much in character for Xena. You know that she has to do it but also know that it will destroy her - it makes for a nice dramatic moment. Then you have the lovely scene as Gabrielle recovers from the possession cradled by Xena and clutching Eli's hand in gratitude. Anyway that's it for this week. Next week I'll be in Cherry Hill so you all have a vaction from my ramblings. Anyone else going to Cherry Hill? CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 15:34:33 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> cr wrote > I really don't care for it, but it has its good > moments. Most of them comic, actually. (And when I say the best moments in an ep are comic ones, it's really in trouble! ;-) > > G: "It's beautiful-- don't you think?" > X: "Yeah, in that yucky, `I'm-in-paradise' > kind of way." > > Good ol' Xena, always the cynic! > > And the other moment that cracked me up was the > one you mentioned - Garr's > 'Your clothes, *sir* ' to a naked Xena. Yes I have to agree I really liked the comic moments and there quit a few. I think the comedy made this a more enjoyable episode than the drama. But after watching the FIN commentary I did become more aware the visual style of the episode so that too made the episode more enjoyable. > > "Jeremy Roberts is one of my favourite > supporting actors, and very good at > getting into character. Who would have > recognised the creepy Aidan as the > flaky assassin Thersites (Fistful of Dinars) or > the devilish Xerxos (Be Deviled)." Yes he was very good as Xeros and I wish they had made Aiden as interesting as Xeros. > > > > Smith is excellent as Garr- the loopy soldier > who is wiser than he seems. > > Was he a bit mentally defective? No I don't thin he was mentally defective as such. I think the strain of trying to stay out of Aiden's clutches made him a bit loopy and also to keep his humanity he had embace a type on insanity. Oddly enough this actor also appeared in A Few Dinars More also - I don't know if that was coincidence or if he is friends with Jeremy Roberts. > > > > Oh, and there was another of those occurrences > of The Vision... three of > them, IIRC. Adjusted, as always, to suit the > episode. It also the first time we clearly see the mendhi on Gabrielle _ I could have sworen it was the first time it was shown but I guess it always was there on her palms but only really blurry. I looked at every vision to see it there because I lost in a trivia game because of it. I'm still stubbon enough to think it was added to the vision after the Indian arc - absurd I know but who says I can't be aburd. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #216 **************************************