From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #211 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, August 1 2002 Volume 02 : Number 211 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] FIN Poll Results [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Kevin in August Starlog [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:53:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article In a message dated 7/30/2002 4:22:14 PM Central Daylight Time, Trek4u269 writes: > From Cheryl- > But if I call them names or characterize them as malicious, idiots, etc., > then I'm not sure how that differs from the "low road" they themselves may > be > taking. >> Um, actually, I was the one who wrote the above, in response to Cheryl's comment abut folks like Goings taking the low road. > > Members of hate groups are angry and bitter too. > Mad at equal rights, mad at gay rights, bitter about race mixing and same > sex, bitter about multiple cultures living in a country they see as white If it's wrong for him, than I see it as wrong for me. If I believe > I have the right to do that, then why wouldn't he? > > wasnt an issue of right or wrong. It was inappropriate to spew hatred towards actors and writers based on a tv show and replies toward him were based on how he acted. If suzie is called an idiot because she writes a book that someone didnt like that is not the same as calling somone an idiot because you heard them cursing out a mcdonalds emply because they didnt like the fries. Comments based on what you see someone do not based on their works. I dont call hitler an idiot for writing mein kompf, but if he were to be on a list and talk of inferiority of blacks and jews and the superiority of the blue eyed, blonde haired aryan heterosexual anglos then I would. To each his/her own how they react. Silence towards behavior like that tends to show agreement or show it is okay to spew venom towards lucy and rob. ANd it doesnt put me on the same level. He is an idiot for writing it and if he writes something else and it is good I will applaud the good stuff. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:43:59 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article On Wednesday 31 July 2002 14:54, Lee Daley wrote: > Besides if Xena and Gabrielle had > "ridden off into the sunset", I most likely would have engaged in a week of > projectile vomiting and writing scathing posts and un*ub-ing. > > LeeD; Warrior Jester In which case I woulda been telling _you_ to get a life cr ... it's only a TV show, only a TV show, .... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:23:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article On Wednesday 31 July 2002 05:19, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > I can criticize their positions, their defamation of > character, their words. But if I call them names or characterize them as > malicious, idiots, etc., then I'm not sure how that differs from the "low > road" they themselves may be taking. I still think I'm right, of course, > and that fans like Goings are wrong , but that doesn't make my > condemnation of them "better." > > -- Ife I think it differs according to whether the subject of your criticism reasonably merits such terms. Otherwise you end up in a sort of PC even-handedness that renders it impossible to make any sort of judgement. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:32:21 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] FIN Poll Results Umm, *I* actually posted (forwarded) that, NOT BElannafan. Due to some unexpected subtlety of my mailreader, obviously it looked as if it came from her. Apologies, I had no intention to mislead. cr On Wednesday 31 July 2002 00:49, BElannafan@aol.com wrote: > [Listowner's Note: BElannafan is still not subscribed to chakram-refugees, > so address any direct responses to her.] > > A while back BElannafan did a poll on attitudes to FIN, over several lists. > IIRC, the percentages were posted on this list. > > Just as a reminder, here they are again: > Total Votes = 168 > 1. Hated FIN... 87 votes - 51.8% > 2. Somewhat did not... 4 votes - 2.4% > 3. Didn't care... 2 votes - 1.2% > 4. Somewhat liked, wish Xena... 28 votes - 16.7% > 5. Liked A Lot... 47 votes - 28.0% > (snip) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:39:11 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Kevin in August Starlog Thanks to the person who posted notice of an article on Kevin Smith in Starlog #301 (August 2002). I just got a copy and was felt so good about Robert Weisbrot's knowledgeable, affectionate retrospective of Kevin's contributions to Hercules and XWP. In addition to a full page photo, there are several smaller ones of his memorable moments. I especially liked some of Kevin's quotes, such as: "In the Hercules universe, that [destructive] face of Ares is most often seen. There's less ['inner'] conflict because Ares isn't being pulled in two different directions. But on Xena, he is [torn]: 'Do I kill her? Do we move in together and pick out lawn furniture? What do we do?" "[Ares] has never set out to *actually* destroy [Xena]. True, there was that one time that Ares set the Furies on Xena, but driving someone mad can be just a way of saying, 'Hey, loosen up! Have some 'me' time time. Have some fun!'" About how Ares supposedly faded into oblivion on Herc, then appeared in the next ep: "That was just a hiccup [for Ares]. 'Doom happens.' You deal with it. You move on. You've gotta let go, man. That stuff will drag you down." About the last XWP ep he filmed, Soul Possession, where he materializes in a forest "and Xena stands still. Ares walks around her, they kiss and then he says, 'Call me.' As we walked back to the trailers, Luce said, 'That's the last scene like that we'll ever do, isn't it?' And I thought, 'This is the last time I'll ever wear my Ares costume.' That was when it *really* got to me." About AFIN: "I love the finality of it. And, in a way, it does satisfy. At some point, it had to end, but I guess we're thinking, 'She's gone to a better place." Just reminds me why someone filled with such humor and graciousness will always live on for me in his wonderfully multi-layered portrayal of "badness" on screen and genuine good heart off-screen. I feel very lucky to have had him in my universe and to know what an impact he made in such a relatively short time. I like to think of him in "a better place," smiling wryly at his fandom, possibly wanting to say, "Hey, loosen up! Doom happens. Don't let it drag you down." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:59:42 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article In a message dated 7/31/02 1:25:59 AM Central Daylight Time, Trek4u269 writes: << To each his/her own how they react. Silence towards behavior like that tends to show agreement or show it is okay to spew venom towards lucy and rob. ANd it doesnt put me on the same level. He is an idiot for writing it and if he writes something else and it is good I will applaud the good stuff. >> Yes, we each do react differently, although you and I are alike in wanting to challenge behavior we have concerns about. I also happen to agree that comments like Goings' are hurtful and particularly ironic, given that the people he ridicules obviously gave him something worth watching and taking so personally. As you said in another post, I like that most of us on this list continue to love the show. I'd just rather not end up allowing Goings' name-calling to spread here, even if it's about him. Maybe we see that differently, which is cool, especially since I think we're both saying we want opinions expressed in a positive way. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:12:50 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article In a message dated 7/31/02 6:24:25 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Wednesday 31 July 2002 05:19, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > I can criticize their positions, their defamation of > character, their words. But if I call them names or characterize them as > malicious, idiots, etc., then I'm not sure how that differs from the "low > road" they themselves may be taking. I still think I'm right, of course, > and that fans like Goings are wrong , but that doesn't make my > condemnation of them "better." > > -- Ife I think it differs according to whether the subject of your criticism reasonably merits such terms. Otherwise you end up in a sort of PC even-handedness that renders it impossible to make any sort of judgement. >> I guess I'm saying "reasonably merits" requires *for me* more than what I saw in Going's article. I can call him a "disgruntled fan who makes ugly and often unsubstantiated remarks about XWP and Xenastaff." Beyond that, I'm not comfortable calling him a hate monger, idiot, low-life, etc. I might *think* that , but making that public *for me* is like being a "fan who makes ugly and unsubstantiated remarks about disgruntled fans." I'm not saying others shouldn't do that. I'm just explaining why I, like them, feel I must say something if I feel that may be happening. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #211 **************************************