From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V2 #207 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, July 29 2002 Volume 02 : Number 207 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] <> ["Cheryl Ande" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] <> ["Lee Daley" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola)] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [Trek4u269@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:44:42 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] <> # # # # ## At the end of The Price Xena says that someday a person like Gabrielle will come along and will lead to The Hoade toward peace. In this episode we find that person. She is the kidnapped daughter of old comrades of Xena's - a soldier Rahl and his healer wife Adah. Xena rescues the girl from the Horde only to learn that the girl, Vanessa or Pilee, loves the Horde. The family is stunned to learn this and the Greek settlers are faced with the Horde who want the girl back. Among the Greeks is a bounty hunter, Milo who wants to exterminate the Horde and kill Pilee. Xena, however, senses that Pilee can bridge the gap between the Horde, who we learn are called the Pomira, and the Greeks. Indeed Pilee is willing to this and after Xena defeats Milo, she returns to the Pomira but she has renewed her ties with her Greek family and the Pomira now see them as family too. The episode ends with hope for a better future. There are some good performances here. Beth Allen(Pilee/Vanessa) brings a nice sense of maturity to the role. Her Pilee is very sure that her real family are the Pomira but she has true compassion for her Greek parents. You can envision her as a person who will work for peace between her two peoples. Bruce Hopkins as Pilee's Greek father is also very good. Here is a man consumed by guilt - he has failed to protect his daughter and believes she is dead. When she miraculously returned to him she strikes out at him and sees her kidnaper as her true father. Rahl becomes angry at his daughter and although it is self-defeating and misguided, it is understandable. Hopkins makes his character very sympathetic in a tough role - you see his anguish and you know his anger is just a cover for his profound guilt and grief. Craig Ancell is the odious Milo - he is a significantly hateful as the villain and we share Xena's and Gabrielle's silent glee when Pilee kicks him in the nose. He has great fight with Xena in the end and even though he is a slight man I though him believable as a dangerous adversary - a man who spent his life fighting and killing fierce warriors and one consumed by hate. It is however a shame the writer's couldn't have given him some kind of motivation for his hatred. LL was good in this one. I liked her disgust at finding out she had to go underground to rescue Pilee - it appears our warrior princess doesn't like small dark places. ROC's Gabrielle is nicely sympathetic as Pilee's friend. There is some really nice banter between X&G at episode's end. (I'm paraphrasing here ) Gabrielle: I really messed up here. Xena : No because of you Pilee has two loving families, Rahl and his wife know their daughter is alive and happy, and there's hope for peace between the Pomira and the Greeks. Gabrielle with a smirk: I did all that and they call you a hero! Xena: Ok next time we'll switch places. You kick butt and I'll take notes. Better episode than I remembered. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:54:30 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article I was just over at Whoosh browsing through their articles and was just stunned to she one that was a vitrolic attack on both Rob Tapert and Lucy Lawless. I truly don't know why anyone would bother to write such an article for a fan site. i was very disturbed about the level of contempt this person has for two people he doesn't know and for their fans. This person accusses others of being obessed with Lucy in the most crude manner and yet fails to see that he is the most obsessed of all. I don't know why I posting this here but I can now understand why people like Lucy and even Renee must go the expense of hiring bodyguards and fear for ther children's safety. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:15:49 -0400 From: "Lee Daley" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] <> > -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Cheryl Ande > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 6:45 PM > > > # > # > # > # > ## > > > There is some really nice banter between X&G at episode's end. (I'm > paraphrasing here ) > Gabrielle with a smirk: I did all that and they call you a hero! > > Xena: Ok next time we'll switch places. You kick butt and I'll > take notes. > > Better episode than I remembered. > Right about the memories, on first viewing it was so-so. Now a rather nice one. It could be how it placed in the season. That final scene is one of the ones that I always wondered if they were scripted or Lucy/Renee ad libs. Of course the quip later become prophetic. LeeD Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:35:53 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article On Monday 29 July 2002 10:54, Cheryl Ande wrote: > I was just over at Whoosh browsing through their articles and was just > stunned to she one that was a vitrolic attack on both Rob Tapert and Lucy > Lawless. I truly don't know why anyone would bother to write such an > article for a fan site. i was very disturbed about the level of contempt > this person has for two people he doesn't know and for their fans. This > person accusses others of being obessed with Lucy in the most crude manner > and yet fails to see that he is the most obsessed of all. I don't know > why I posting this here but I can now understand why people like Lucy and > even Renee must go the expense of hiring bodyguards and fear for ther > children's safety. > > CherylA Jeez, I just read it. That guy is so just pissed off with the world. If I was living near him I'd just be hoping he doesn't own a gun. He seems to have suffered severe ego damage from TPTB's portrayal of fans in Clones and Soul Possession, which suggests he has a huge ego and no sense of humour whatsoever. It wasn't *only* Lucy and Rob he was shooting at, it was anybody in the Xena world, from Creation to Missy Good to anybody on mailing lists who has a good word to say for XWP. Personally, I would not put such an article on a Xena site, because I just can't see the point of a fan site providing a platform for people who hate the show, but Kym seems to have a policy of publishing anything that isn't actually libellous. Umm, the guy describes himself as "Hates people who bullsh--. A shoot from the hip kind of guy." Funnily enough, that's not the part of his anatomy I thought he was shooting from. ;-) One more quote from the article: "Sad thing is, Xena fans all over are known as jokes from the land of misfits or worse. " I wonder why? cr ... If you like the good old Victorian pastime of laughing at lunatics, http://whoosh.org/issue70/going1.html ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:53:54 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> On Monday 29 July 2002 10:44, Cheryl Ande wrote: > # > # > # > # > ## > > > At the end of The Price Xena says that someday a person like Gabrielle will > come along and will lead to The Hoade toward peace. In this episode we > find that person. She is the kidnapped daughter of old comrades of Xena's > - a soldier Rahl and his healer wife Adah. Xena rescues the girl from the > Horde I thought Gabby was very quick to volunteer Xena's services. Got a problem that needs fixing? Warlords defeated? Dragons battled? Drains cleaned? Xena will do it for you! I thought Gab was being very naive, to imagine they could just rescue Pilee and all would be sunshine. > > There are some good performances here. Beth Allen(Pilee/Vanessa) brings a > nice sense of maturity to the role. Her Pilee is very sure that her real > family are the Pomira but she has true compassion for her Greek parents. > You can envision her as a person who will work for peace between her two > peoples. Yes, Beth Allen was very good. Difficult role, too. Though my sceptical side wonders how long the peace would last. Ultimately, it's the old settlers-vs-Indians scenario. > Craig Ancell is the odious Milo - he is a > significantly hateful as the villain and we share Xena's and Gabrielle's > silent glee when Pilee kicks him in the nose. He has great fight with Xena > in the end and even though he is a slight man I though him believable as a > dangerous adversary - a man who spent his life fighting and killing fierce > warriors and one consumed by hate. It is however a shame the writer's > couldn't have given him some kind of motivation for his hatred. Ahh, the guy's just an enthusiastic psycopath. That's how he came over to me - I didn't need any more motivation for him than that. I just couldn't accept that Milo could give Xena so much trouble. First Najara, now Milo. Maybe Alti did some sort of damage to Xena's fighting ability (and I don't just mean the Vision). > LL was good in this one. I liked her disgust at finding out she had to go > underground to rescue Pilee - it appears our warrior princess doesn't like > small dark places. Tactically, being underground in enemy territory is awful. Too easy to get cut off or surrounded, and they know the territory, you don't. Or it could just be because small dark spaces are usually full of directors dropping boxes of rats on her ;) > ROC's Gabrielle is nicely sympathetic as Pilee's > friend. There is some really nice banter between X&G at episode's end. > (I'm paraphrasing here ) > > Gabrielle: I really messed up here. > > Xena : No because of you Pilee has two loving families, Rahl and his wife > know their daughter is alive and happy, and there's hope for peace between > the Pomira and the Greeks. > > Gabrielle with a smirk: I did all that and they call you a hero! > > Xena: Ok next time we'll switch places. You kick butt and I'll take > notes. Nice retort. Best line in the ep. I thought Gab was being naive again, taking Xena's considerate (and very optimistic) reassurance at face value. That actually niggled me - here's Xena being kind to her and she gets boastful about it. I think maybe that line was intended as Gabs being facetious or sceptical about it and ROC's reading was a little bit off. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:06:16 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article In a message dated 7/28/02 3:49:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > I don't know why I posting this here but I can > now understand why people like Lucy and even Renee must go the expense of > hiring bodyguards and fear for ther children's safety. > > Sad that many stars have to have guards now and it ruins it for the true fans because they dont know wether the person approaching them is a fan or just a fanatic. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:11:21 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article Needless to say, this last post on G. Going's Whoosh article will have us all "checking it out" and I am certainly no exception. One thing I find interesting is that those that who have expressed their disdain for FIN and ultimately XWP and all those involved with the show, are the ones who have chosen the low road trampling on the values (respect for opposing points of view and freedom of expression) they espouse to stand for (and feel are being persecuted for). I am probably not a stereotypical Xena fan, but one of the things I enjoyed most about the series (including the FINale) was the ability for each of us to draw our own conclusions. We were always given the chance to see the glass half full or half empty. It seems that G. Going feels better making accusations and judgements on the cast and crew's hidden agenda.....certainly his right to express his thoughts, but why does it have to come down to personal attacks. How can you elevate your point of view by putting others down. Lastly, G. Going's comment about Lucy taking all the money with no regard for the fan's contributions is just plain mean spirited. I have seen Lucy on a number of TV shows as well as the Pasadena convention tape, and I think she knows full well how much her fans support charities and her appreciation certainly seems sincere. Oh well I am sure this is not the end of this subject, but I have one passing thought for those who have become jaded on the show since FIN........ There are 2 sides to every coin and there is no right or wrong.....sometimes you get what you hope for and sometimes you go home emptyhanded.....but the journey makes it all worthwile. CJL ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:48:15 EDT From: Trek4u269@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article In a message dated 7/28/02 8:11:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cjlnh@webtv.net writes: > One thing I find interesting is that those that who have expressed their > disdain for FIN and ultimately XWP and all those involved with the show, > are the ones who have chosen the low road trampling on the values > (respect for opposing points of view and freedom of expression) Yup. Either you join in their hatred or you are flamed. Geez....this is such a prejudice attitude......"Either you are with us or you are against us"........and we wonder how these hate groups keep goin (gay bashers, bigots, klan, white supremists, skinheads, neo nazis, etc). Make everyone that doesnt see things their way feel "wrong", "stupid" or "ignorant". Ouir way or the highway. They bash or they run away. It is sick to have to endure hatred and prejudice inside of fandom....... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:21:25 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Whoosh Article On Monday 29 July 2002 15:35, cr wrote: > On Monday 29 July 2002 10:54, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > I was just over at Whoosh browsing through their articles and was just > > stunned to she one that was a vitrolic attack on both Rob Tapert and Lucy > > Lawless. Most of the other articles, on the other hand, are quite readable. (And some of them are by subtexters, too :) The first long letter on the Letters page, otoh, is another of *those* (pokes it gingerly with a long stick). The old "Tapert was just lucky and Lawless' acting sucks" kinda crap. (For *six years*?) Makes me want to ask the letter writer (preferably through a megaphone and with them in the glare of a spotlight) "What have _you_ ever achieved that would even rate any sort of recognition? What entitles you to defame _anyone_ who's actually achieved something and got a television episode - any television episode - on air?" 'scuse me for going off, I just needed to say that. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V2 #207 **************************************